Merchant Archive
Thread: Vendor Maintenance Fees coming – your input request
As a Tailor + Merchant this will kill me. If the formula goes ahead asproposed I will shut down my shop and sell back my merchant skills. I have been very proud to say that (with the exception of trying it out to see how it was) I NEVER use practice mode. Keeping a wide selection of clothing stocked in my shop is both fun for me and keeps my customers happy. That being said, the % turnover of my inventory is not nearly fast enough to pay these kind of maintainance fees and raising my prices will only slow down the turnover (making my costs even higher). At that point the only option may be to sell my items at 1cr each and beg for tips like entertainers and doctors are forced to do. Or else simply close up shop, grind for xp 
and do custom orders.
This has been the first game where crafting was actually fun to do. I dont care about making huge profits, I just enjoy helping people look nice. I agree that the NPC maintainance fees are way too low now, but the proposed rate is too high, either lower it or change to a tax. If there is a database problem put a limit on the total number of items that can be listed.
I know what i've said has been posted by others, but it needs to be said often that the proposed method will destroy the merchant profession even more than it already is.
Ok two things. First, agree with everyone who says make all maintenance rates hourly. What genius said, hey, lets base our calculations on 45 minutes? That makes no sense.
Secondly, at the rate you propose, most people simply won't use vendors. I sure won't. I'm a tailor, I like to keep a variety of items on my vendor for customers. But at this rate of maintenance, I'll simply put an empty vendor out to advertise my location on the map, with a sign over its head saying "Send a tell for custom tailoring". Why? Because the rate you propose would exceed the cost of my large house, 4 large harvesters, and our PA's hall on a daily basis. Now I'm assuming those with Merchant efficiency skill will get a break on that amount, but please, that just forces everyone in the world to have it if they want to sell anything. You could easily negate my entire profit on a slow week.
If you want to put a cost on the transaction, make it sales tax. Bottom line, your proposed rate will just insure that very few people use vendors for anything.
I feel bad for the smiths/vendors on the servers. The combat professions will again avoid ANOTHER money sink while the crafting classes who are supposed to supply the economy get hit with another tax. Pay for houses for stores, pay for materials, pay for maintinance on harvestors, now paying for vendors.
Are the combat professions going to ever have a money sink besides the one needed thing, weapons? Armor is a money sink, but armor is optional, you can survive well enough without it. I can't survive as a smith without paying housing fee's, maint on harv's, my factory...
I think you need to rethink your money sinks to target the classes who don't already HAVE to spend money to stay afloat.
I'm with most everyone here. I'm a novice architect and a casual gamer. I only get to play once every two to three days. With my vendor already costing me 150-200 credits per hour, I cannot afford to maintain all my machines. Inventory turnover is not fast enough for a small shop. I don't need amoney sink, I operate barely in the black usually with less than 5-10k in the bank.
A vendor terminal is just that, a machine like any other. Make a small maintenancefee for operating it. If you need to sink away more money, charge a commission of 5%. Lower that commission based on merchant skill. The problem I have with paying commission is what am I getting for that commission? I don't have salesmen out selling for me, or advertising? All of mymarketing is word of mouth or email. Of course, if there has to be a money sink, a percent commission,something not based on time, is what I'd like to see. I don'tparticularly like playing agame that requires me to spendall of my money operating my vendor.
I agree, there need to be more money sinks in this game. However...
In a game where the economy is supposed to be player-driven, and where the bulk of items are made by players (both of which are wonderful, and one of my favorite things about this game), all this does is suppress the crafter's ability to make a sale. An Architect, a class which already has problems, could never afford to keep houses, or some of the larger harvesters stocked. Without any decay to keep sales coming in, to afford to keep these things listed, an Architect would have to sell furniture, which is one of the few real draws...which would add to the cost of the vendor... You see the cycle.
This means I resort to putting up a chance cube with my prices and whatnot in the description, and hope someone e-mails me with orders. I can pre-make the items and store them on the floor, I suppose, so that people can see I have them made...but that means I have to be online to sell it to them. I lose business because I need to sleep.
I believe part of the key to this is the Merchant class, at least from the player side. Novice Merchants need greatly reduced vendor fees. The Efficiency line should be all about dropping vendor fees further. This encourages use of the spec, and is a trade of points (and combat skills) for cash. At least, then, they could afford to make sales.
I understand the need for money sinks. The outflow of credits from the economy is supremely important. Perhaps any structure with a vendor in it has increased fees? This way, you're taxing the shop, but not the merchandise, and I can afford to keep medium houses in stock.
Suggestion if the tax plan is put into effect: implement it at the Bazaars as well.
Any substantial vendor maintenance fee will instantly mean the end of the vast majority of automated vendors in the galaxy. And what will take their place? Mail order as mentioned. And something else that I haven't seen mentioned (although I haven't read through this entire huge thread): barkers in the city.
Do we really want to have 10x more shout-style advertising in our cities?
No Thanks.
P.S. I hardly ever post on here and usually think the Devs are doing a good job. This idea is very poor, however. It's even brought me out of the woodwork.
I don't want to see a fee based on inventory and time. It doesn't make sense, and will drive me totally away from ever trying owning a shop.
Rather, have a sales tax on all items sold by the vendor. Maybe 2%, or 5%, at max.10%. You can also have a flat maintenance fee for the shop, to be paid *monthly*, instead of daily (why make it more work, once a month bill paying works better, IMO). So, a combination of a monthly maintenance fee for a merchant, + a commission on each sale made by the vendor, deducted immediately upon sale.
Thanks for considering our inputs! 
Ahhh, Dragonian, your post was hilarious and made a point at the same time!
And don't forget about the vendors being somewhat reluctant to give an item to the customer who just bought it. Or, for that matter, the fact that the salespeople get all uppity and refuse to let you move things out of the stockroom sometimes. (Sometimes they let you have the things, but it's usually after a grand fight!)
I think that the fees should be looked into, and I think a batch of people on Test should be allowed to try out a variety of methods. Perhaps one span of time you do the solution you're already going to post. Then the next try the percentage-of-sale method. Then the next try another of the methods posted here. You devs should be looking at how much money gets put into the system and what comes out of it with each method. Better, though, you need to NOT tell the testers how long the method is going to be in place. (You can make all kinds of plans to get around something if you know how long it's going to be in place, and that could give you false results.)
But, at the same time, I think you need to increase the level of merchant support we get regardless of what method you use, and we should see this support tested on TC, too. More advertising methods! Less costs to merchants who pursue the profession all the way to the top!
I don't really think we want to see a bug creep in that causes ALL vendors to shut down (or worse yet, stop after selling 100 credits worth of items).
--Brellian
Well, I don't have time to read the 17 pages of comments, but here is my idea:
Put in a sales tax that goes to the Gallactic Trade Federation on all vendor sales. Have the buyer bear the brunt of this instead of the artisans. Make it 5% of item cost or something.
If you wind up going with increased maintenance instead, you should give Merchants a DRAMATIC reduction in vendor maintenance rates.
I dont mind paying a fair price on something that works. I will not pay for something that doesnt (i.e. vendors with all their stupid bugs).
Most countrys have a concept of "sales tax" Its nothing new. It happens when an item is sold. Very few civilized countries have "stock tax". Be sure to let us all know when your current plans go live so we can shut down our vendors.
Heysun - Master Armorsmith (Tarquinas)
Ergh I really hate to be negative but man oh man. So far to date game bugs have eaten several HUNDRED thousand credits from me (stopped officially keeping track when it hit 200k). To read "we need money sinks" just makes me laugh out loud. Yes if all of the item and credit eating bugs were erased there would be a need for more money sinks...perhaps. But as it is right now in the reality of today's game my money is already sinking like the Titanic faster than I can recoup it! Meanwhile there have been well documented cheats and exploits since game launch that have created an artificial wealth for some players undoubtedly skewing the economic figures for the developers.
This is a dilema as we have one group of folks with much more money than they should have if the game had been running properly and another group of folks losing money at a rate much greater than they should be if the game was running properly. I realize the game cannot be balanced based on bugs. However, how can we even tell you what the money sink SHOULD be when we cannot even pretend to know what our cash flow would be in a relatively bugless situation? Its absolutely INSANE to "fix" things in the manner you have been attempting. Your house is on fire and you are cleaning the gutters! --exhale--
In regards to the actual question. If I ignore the above and try to "guess" what my real financial situation is under all of the bugs, my opinion is the "rate" you propose is too high. Basing a rate on the sale value of the items in the vendor or even the quantity of those items is punitive to people who like to run a decent business with actual STOCK for customers.
With your figure of value/1000 every 45 mins it would cost me 672cr to list a 3000cr item on my vendor for one week. How much would it cost me to list that same item on the bazaar for one week? I think a better way to handle this is to create a relatively low flat fee for vendor maintenance. However you do it it should never ever EVER EVER cost more to sell each 3kcr of merchandise from your very own shop than it is to sell each 3kcr of merchandise from the public bazaar. Not rocket science.
I pay money to maintain my harvestors so I can turn resources into usable items in the economy.
I pay money to go to other planets to gather resources to bring back and make into better weapons for the players.
I pay money to have a house so I can craftweapons for players in peace.
I pay money to post items I've made on the bazaar for players to purchase.
I pay money to my factory to make crate required items.
Please stop, I'm tired of grabbing my ankles already....
Pull the mony out from where it is. In the hands of people who spend alot of time doing missions. Put a per item purchased tax on stuff. I like the idea of paying your npc merchant vendors in several different ways. Can you set it up so you choose? I would like to pay one unskilled laborer to watch the shop and sell stuff straight fee of xxx per time ( with no per item difference). or I would like to pay a comission to my vendor every sale made. or mixed flat salary plus commission. Put a per mission tax. Mug players with cash. put a percent loss for stolen items loss and mistakes for porrly paid employees. Insurance for shops homes etc.
Take money from people who hae it. I have been a artisan mostly. I do have basic combat skills but I have focused on getting master weaponsmith first. I never have enough money. I have joined a PA and that is finally helping some. People who are getting money from somewhere are giving it to me. I still do not make enough to support my art. Something is broken somewhere else....