CUEmu - Thread Posts

Gremicwas

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:10 am

Kharn_JB wrote:

What's ironic is that one of the big excuses for the nerf is 'to give new crafters a chance against the monopolistic crafters', yet this nerf will make it much harder and expensive for new crafters to obtain what they need to even get anywhere near the level of the other crafters.

If they really want to level the field for crafters, or for that matter all professions, they would have to nerf skill tape mods. Newbs who have not been on the server for long, have not been around to get the multiple skill tapes to give the massive bonuses to professions.

Plus, with the item cap, more people will be forced to sell in bulk or crates, which will be too expensive for the average newb. This will only increase the monopoly since the veterans will be the only ones who can afford to buy quality and/or bulk resources and products.

Gremicwas (Merchant)
Outer Limits Emporium and Shipyard: Theed, Naboo (-4987, 5323)
Vendors: Ship Chassis and Components, BE Tissues, Weapons, Droids, Architect, Tailor, ALL ELITE and mining weapons and components in stock
Look for the -COOL- trademark for Quality Crafted Items

joined42904

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:20 am

#28

Lillith,

I for one do not support making resources stack to infinity or to above 100k. I actually wish they didn't stack that high? Why? Because it enables people to keep tons of resources without paying for the storage space. Right now 100,000 kgs of something takes up about the same amount of storage space as a small lamp. That seems artificial and ridiculous to me. What we need is a new type of building placable only by crafters (master of some crafting profession) that can hold stacks over 5k. And houses can't. The new building could hold 100k stacks.

What does this accomplish? Well...if they get rid of cross-server lot echanges....hopefully we will see the demise of these massive quantities of hoarded resources. You can't stock them on your vendor. You can't put them in your house...only a limited number of warehouses...and someone who is letting you use their warehouse is giving up their own ability to succeed as a crafter despite lots of skill points in crafting. That sounds like a crafting utopia to me. The older folks will have better resources. But not in unlimited quantity. What your idea of unlimited stack size does is eliminate all the good done for newer crafters by the lack of ability to store things on the vendor anymore.

We had most of the good resources for AS spawn on Kauri during the two months it took me to grind up to master. I know...I'm not skilled at grinding.

I agree with the idea to make resources spawn in good quality more often. This would cut down on the need to stockpile as you suggest.

I disagree with your notion that 700 per vendor is anything approaching a reasonable limit. It would do nothing to destroy oligopolies and would be right in line with what a typical oligopolist would want. The limit needs to be 200 or lower at master merchant to give small crafters a chance. And the more I think about it the more I like 110.

I see no need to reduce the skill points to be a master merchant. It's a very useful skill now with the changes. Either you buy it with skill points or you don't. Your decision.

We agree about the empty vendors.

I don't think most crafters will restock every single day. It will become too much of a chore. This will lead to opportunities for younger crafters.

If the older crafters quit because they can't be oligopolists anymore, so be it. Maybe they should be concentrating on finding merchants to buy and sell their wares rather than giving up in disgust. Because the merchant profession is just now becoming viable. They should probably expect to charge less to those who buy in bulk for example. To use an example earlier in this thread, in no way is 100k each the market price for heavy harvesters purchased in bulk.

What do you think constitutes "terribly inflated," Lillith? I think we need to reconsider pricing for goods if combat folks can earn 1M per buff session. How much is too much for folks who can earn that much? If armor went up 50% these folks I don't think would even notice the change very much.

Folks are going to quit because the price of goods rises 50%? I really don't think so. And it might not even rise that much if the devs implemented the search feature discussed elsewhere recently on the boards. There are plenty of reasons to quit but a 50% rise in the price of useful items isn't on my list.

Issadra 12-pt Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant
NERF Armory 5103, 2008 Lost Sanctum Dantooine
Specialty Shop and Outlet in Andromeda Corellia

Tarnak_Archvold

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:38 am

#29

If the devs wand to limit monopolies, removing factories from the game would be much more efficient.

Limiting vendors just limits the amount of items that can be sold in a given amount of time. If a weaponsmith is successful enough he can just sell crates of weapons to merchants who then sells his weapon in many different places... that will give him a 25 times as high an output positional as a WS that just sells his weapons in singles. How is that not a monopoly? Even more so then now when the Weapon smith's just sell their weapons themselves.

"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.

Hero_DarkJedi

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:40 am

#30

Crimsonsplat wrote:

Ha. Ha. Master Arch/Artisan, 4444 Merchant.

Ok, I'll assume youmissed my point and knock off the sarcasm. It's not that I run 1000 at a time (I don't, except for structure modules), it's that it makes no sense to be ABLE to run 1000 copies of any one item when you can sell only a tenth of that on a single vendor. And in fact, I expect that is part of the point--elsewhere, I speculate that the next change is to reduce all schematics to max 100. That way, they indirectly deal with demands for extra storage space (we don't need the huge amount of resources for smaller runs), cross server lots (don't need them for mass mining), combat balance (who can make huge amounts of the best stuff anymore?)

Who knew that combat balance was going to accomplished through a merchant nerf?

Actually ... it's all about time. It's much easier / faster to do a run of 1,000 of something then it is to do 4 runs of 250. If you are going to use all the components or be able to sell allthe stuff at the quality level. Plus, you get 100 output storage in each factory ... plus 100 on the input ... that's 200 spots right there. I will be using mine much more if this 110 limit goes live.

'=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='
Hero--[Hero Built]Weapons
~ ~M a s t e rW e a p o n S m i t hS i n c e8 / 1 8 / 0 3~ ~
[Coronet Mall, Corellia: 910, -4690]-[EPOC Mall, Naboo: -3950, 3885]
[Freedom City, Dantooine: -6040, 6160]-[Sandy Hills, Tatooine: 363, 3218]
Resource and Loot Drop Off: [Hero's Workshop, South Coronet, Corellia: 400, -6050]

Hero_DarkJedi

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:44 am

#31

Gremicwas wrote:

Kharn_JB wrote:

What's ironic is that one of the big excuses for the nerf is 'to give new crafters a chance against the monopolistic crafters', yet this nerf will make it much harder and expensive for new crafters to obtain what they need to even get anywhere near the level of the other crafters.

If they really want to level the field for crafters, or for that matter all professions, they would have to nerf skill tape mods. Newbs who have not been on the server for long, have not been around to get the multiple skill tapes to give the massive bonuses to professions.

Plus, with the item cap, more people will be forced to sell in bulk or crates, which will be too expensive for the average newb. This will only increase the monopoly since the veterans will be the only ones who can afford to buy quality and/or bulk resources and products.

Skill tapes are not the deciding factor in the "majority" of professions. In my profession it just brings down the HAM, gives slightly better mods, or brings up durability. I would venture to say that this is "not" the deciding factor between me and a new smith.

But ... as long as my vendor is full ... and my weapons are slightly better ... and reasonably priced ... why should they buy from that other guy?

Not only that ... there is something comforting about buying from a vendor that is fully stocked ... makes you feel they are reliable ...

That will change .. my vendor will be empty more often ..

'=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='
Hero--[Hero Built]Weapons
~ ~M a s t e rW e a p o n S m i t hS i n c e8 / 1 8 / 0 3~ ~
[Coronet Mall, Corellia: 910, -4690]-[EPOC Mall, Naboo: -3950, 3885]
[Freedom City, Dantooine: -6040, 6160]-[Sandy Hills, Tatooine: 363, 3218]
Resource and Loot Drop Off: [Hero's Workshop, South Coronet, Corellia: 400, -6050]

SeaRaptor

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:44 am

#32

joined42904 wrote:

If the older crafters quit because they can't be oligopolists anymore, so be it. Maybe they should be concentrating on finding merchants to buy and sell their wares rather than giving up in disgust. Because the merchant profession is just now becoming viable. They should probably expect to charge less to those who buy in bulk for example. To use an example earlier in this thread, in no way is 100k each the market price for heavy harvesters purchased in bulk.

This is incorrect. Whether *I* myself am a master merchant or whether I choose to sell through another master merchant does not change the fact that these vendor caps will not allow ANY MERCHANT to stock 46 different varieties of weapons in quantities enough that will allow them to continue to enjoy the game and not live at their vendor.

Trying to make the argument that big-time crafters should seek out other merchants to sell their wares instead of doing it themselves does not work, because another merchant is JUST as nerfed as the original crafter.

Felton Kel
Master Weaponsmith, FelKel LTD Weaponsmiths
Old weaponsmiths never die, they buy a planet and retire in luxury.
Now on MMORadio - Where Gamers ROCK!

Hero_DarkJedi

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:49 am

#33

Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
If the devs wand to limit monopolies, removing factories from the game would be much more efficient.

Limiting vendors just limits the amount of items that can be sold in a given amount of time. If a weaponsmith is successful enough he can just sell crates of weapons to merchants who then sells his weapon in many different places... that will give him a 25 times as high an output positional as a WS that just sells his weapons in singles. How is that not a monopoly? Even more so then now when the Weapon smith's just sell their weapons themselves.

Silly suggestion ... it's flawed on many levels.

Your statement of: "he can just sell crates of weapons to merchants"

And where are these merchants going to sell the weapons? and if the merchant can only list 110 items, the merchant is going to run dry ... and when it runs dry, the n00b smith is going to have his "not so good, n00b product" just waiting for the customers credits. If the vendor was not dry, then the n00b smith would probably never have a chance at the business ... let alone actually get it.

Looking forward to malls with 100+ vendors in them ... where I employ 4 merchants and the vendors are 4 deep for each thing :-)

'=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='
Hero--[Hero Built]Weapons
~ ~M a s t e rW e a p o n S m i t hS i n c e8 / 1 8 / 0 3~ ~
[Coronet Mall, Corellia: 910, -4690]-[EPOC Mall, Naboo: -3950, 3885]
[Freedom City, Dantooine: -6040, 6160]-[Sandy Hills, Tatooine: 363, 3218]
Resource and Loot Drop Off: [Hero's Workshop, South Coronet, Corellia: 400, -6050]

Demonssword

Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:41 pm

#34

If they are trying to cut down the ammount that any 1 man can control on the market then they have made a stupid way of doing it.

IF my tailor supplys business was to continue with the new system then i would have to log in 3 times a day to restock my vendors on weekends just to keep up with demand!

Im not going to do that as its a waste of my time and i would prefer to just either change the character to do something else or maybe wait for JTL and just transfer over all my money and stuff to a character i will make as one of the new races if i like them.

So cos my store has been open in 3 different places from about november last year i have a nice 60 million creds in my bank (i can make 300,000 easily on a weekend and normally about 100,000 a day on all other days. But i also spend alot on helping people and buying fancy new things), i will have a good running start on anyone on farstar.

Keldorion of Chimaera + others on other servers when i deside to reactivate them.

zukem

Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:19 am

#35

I love this speculation stuff. After publish 10. I don't plan on changing a thing. My vendors will be the same. The prices will be the same. And currently, on the 6 vendors, I can easily get below the 100 cap on all but one. And that one is a loot vendor, so just would have to sell more on the bazaar to lighten the load.

For those that think prices are going to rise, and those merchants that will raise their prices. All I can say is. You people are greedy. 90% of the shops around are already overpriced.

Zuker - Jedi
Zuke - Commando
Bastia - Structures Trader
SPAM Sales - South of Coronet Starport 84, -5588 Sales Inventory Lottery

Nisdain

Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:20 am

#36

#1 Limits need to raised somewhat

#2 For Merchant not to be just some bum class every crafter has to get they need a better vendor system. I don't mind limits on item space that are atleast somewhat reasonable if I can sell out my vendors to people for say, 1-5% of their profits. competing prices and making the skill points worthwhile are what should draw people to become a merchant, not because its absolutely required to run a business. There are many posts outlining the change on these boards

#3 I don't buy the database issues for a second. If theres nothing on the vendor its taking up next to no db space. Its not like you're storing images in the DB either, just some numbers and text to be pulled up. Look at the number of subscribers to the game, at $15 a month they bring in multi millions a month just from a single server population. Theres no way the cost of running things is so high its even beginning to nibble into profits.

-Nisdain Vesrial / Caspers Neetakka

joined42904

Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:27 am

#37

Searaptor,

I think you miss my point.

Get a group of 4 merchants and you will have how many items to be offerred at once? 660 times 5 (assuming you are a merchant yourself). That's 3,300 items. Hmm... Sell crates to the merchant or sell on consignment.

Why are merchants saying they want 1-4% of the profit. That seems ridiculous. You are buying in bulk (wholesale) and selling retail.

I really hope they don't begin a system involving no trust in which folks just set up unlimited numbers of vendors for other people which those other people run. That sounds like the idea of someone who doesn't want there to really be a merchant profession or who doesn't want to have to trust other people except in the sense of trusting a cross-lot player on a one-time basis.

Issadra 12-pt Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant
NERF Armory 5103, 2008 Lost Sanctum Dantooine
Specialty Shop and Outlet in Andromeda Corellia

SeaRaptor

Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:29 am

#38

I see what you're saying, but where do you intend to find four master merchants? I couldn't probably find more than a dozen on the entire Tempest server, now you're saying that every crafter needs to have FOUR MASTER MERCHANTS to carry the same volume of business they do now?

Am I the only one who not only thinks that's ridiculous, but impossible as well?

Felton Kel
Master Weaponsmith, FelKel LTD Weaponsmiths
Old weaponsmiths never die, they buy a planet and retire in luxury.
Now on MMORadio - Where Gamers ROCK!

zukem

Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:50 am

#39

One interesting thing came to mind reading some of these posts. And that is consignment. Why do people even do consignment? If you are an experienced seller of goods, you should know what sells and what doesn't. And even what sells at what price and doesn't sell at another price. There is a function in the current system. Sell to vendor. So what may happen if all the doom and gloomers are right, and there are only 10 merchants on the whole server. People will have to go to that vendor. And sell their wares to them at the price that they want for it. The merchant will look at the product and price, and determine if that price that he's buying it for is a) worth that price and b) is sellable at that price or above that price. If it's not worth that price, then they refuse offer. If it's worth that price. Then the merchant BUYS the item from the person, and there is no consignment issue.

Zuker - Jedi
Zuke - Commando
Bastia - Structures Trader
SPAM Sales - South of Coronet Starport 84, -5588 Sales Inventory Lottery

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