CUEmu - Thread Posts

WulfFeir

Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:45 am

DocSavag wrote:
You are right. There is more to the item limits than just database stuff. There is an economic concern. The devs think it is a serious concern to have too much of the economy in a small group of peoples control. Are they right? Probably though the people who have worked hard to get there obviously dont' see it that way and why should they? But those who are trying to break into those markets probably have a different view.

This is completely wrong, I was not a MWS until just over four months ago.I started out as a No-Name crafter, but people knew I had a reputation for being honest...with hard work on my part of working my reputation on the forums and then marketing my products with people from guilds...WORKING HARD TO GET WHERE I AM, I am a VERY successful weaponsmith that many people come to not only for factory made weapons but for custom made weapons with the works..custom barrels, custom stocks (which take almost 20 mins per stock to make to get the experiments just right), and custom scopes, as well as krayt/acklay/etc...enhanced weapons....now when I started out I asked other major crafters and WS who WORK just as hard as I to get to where they are now and then MAINTAIN such a reputation (which is extremely hard to do with resource droughts for essential resources and etc...) for help in regards to resources and startup funds...and they happily obliged and came back to me with an attitude of and I quote: "There's more than enough of a market out there for us Weaponsmiths, just don't come to my shop area and spam for your weapons." Now that came from Felton Kel, one of the "oldest" weaponsmiths on my server...I also have a great friendship with Bastilaa, another of the oldest weaponsmiths...same with Asiansensation...who all have been at it longer than I and have what some might want to call "monopolies" which is complete bull. I also know of several other Weaponsmiths on my server that have done such things as well...gone from noob-crafter to large, money making, conglomerate because they busted their butts, worked hard, and got help from fellow crafters when needed. Now, is this a coporate monopoly? No...if another WS needs some polysteel copper and I can supply it, then I have no problem giving or selling a low prices (ie 2-3 cpu rather than the outrageous 10-20 cpu that a lot of resource vendors on our server impose without realizing that those prices cause us to jack ours up) Would someone wanting to monopolize an industry do such things? NO they would be greedy and self-serving...This may be true of some crafters but a good 90% of those that I know aren't that way at all.

Anyone can go from mini-momandpop to large corporate entity if they work hard and either buy 4 alts (me) or have help from guildies and friends (me again). Now, if someone considers it "hard to break into a profession for sales" because they don't put more than a piddly effort into the profession and try to sell extremely inferior products for the prices of superior stuff, that's not being tough to get into a profession, that's called you are doing a haphazard job, trying to make a quick buck.

People at the corporate giant level in this game don't have it easy to not only have gotten there, but to also to maintain it. If someone puts forth a supreme effort to get to a great level in their profession and sales, they should not be penalized by this whole vendor limit crap...if nothing else, this will cause one of two phenomonae...1. You will see a skyrocketing of pricing of the higher quality products because the people making them have to restrict how much they can place on their vendors and since they cannot spend their entire existence waiting to jump from one planet to another to try to keep all their vendors restocked (which would definitely be my problem) then you will see their profits drop (which shows how successful we are) and thus our gaming experience will be greatly diminished, hence either a dropping of a profession and the destruction of all the hard work involved to get to the level we are...or leave the game completely due to a totalitarian dictatorship economic government...If I am restricted on how much I can stock (I routinely go through over 110 items in one vendor per day) then the only thing I really enjoy in the game will be destroyed (making and marketing products for good sales) and the devs will lose my total of four accts and I know this will apply to many others. 2. You will see all the people that worked hard to be successful in this game ending up being chained to their computers having to jump all over to restock every time x-y-z product runs out, thus diminishing their experience because they will be frustrated at trying to restock and restock and restock to keep turning a profit...This will also lead to a mass exodus from the game of many crafters as well as many people who rely on them...yes vendors will again be empty...because no one can play this game 24/7 to keep them fully stocked...god forbid you have to go on vacation cause guess what will happen when your vendor is empty for more than two weeks...yup delete delete delete...Sorry but this would be the last straw and sony can kiss my $60 a month goodbye...oh and since EQ and EQ2 and FFXI are SOE based products, guess what I won't be buying...Hello MOE...goodbye SWG...yet another third party game run by SOE that dies due to nerfs and devs...REMEMBER EARTH AND BEYOND??? IT DIED JUST IN TIME FOR SOME GREAT NEW EXPANSIONS FOR EQ...hmmm do I sense a pattern?

Wulf Feir

Master Weaponsmith

Falceon Feir

Master Doc/Master Swords (wanted to start doc crafting but now I am not so sure I can even make that a viable thing...not due to monopolies...but due to devs.)

Message Edited by WulfFeir on 08-09-2004 05:45 AM

DocSavag

Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:49 am

#28

Guys I'm not preaching this theory I'm only giving you my honest opinion of what the devs think about it. Perhaps they will be good enough to share a more detailed opinion.

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder

SaberSWG

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:20 am

#29

This change will not help the new crafter. It will only hurt them.

Just because my compitiion can't stock a wide slection doesnt mean I can

Now a new crafter will have to master not only his crafting profession but Merchant for ANY chance to compete...and will be unable to do so until he's mastered BOTH professions

Even after mastering he will be unable to put enough examples of his various wares to draw a significant client base

He will be forced in to a continual grind-mode to keep his vendor stocked as the few items of the "big sellers" sell out every 8-12 hours... and he needs them stocked to get a name for himself

This change will do the opposite of helping the new crafter.

This change will change Merchant from a profession which can support crafters to a profession which MUST be mastered by a crafter or at the least be partnered at a 1-to-1 ratio.

This change will force the masses into grind mode once again ... only the establised crafters and power gamers (who have a ton of resources already, a fleet of harvesters, and a farm of factories) will benefit from this all possible new compitiion will have no chance at all.

[Myshak's Melee] - Master Weaponsmith / Artisan / Merchant
Hundreds of melee weapons in stock! Check my vendor inventory and place special orders at PerfectionCity.com!

Perfection City, Lok, Lowca [About Perfection] | [Vendor Directory] | [Forums]
Perfection ... it's not just a state of being ... it's a destination!

DirthNader

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:24 am

#30

DocSavag wrote:

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

I had a newer MAS stumble on my warehouse about a week ago. For whatever reason I had I had it set as public, and all of my resources (a few million of the best comp and Ubese resources to spawn) neatly stacked up so I could find them easily.

I got a /tell from him. "Seeing all of your resources makes me want to quit armorsmithing." To me, that reinforced the point in my mind that the big gate to existing markets is resources, not other crafters. He didn't send me a tell saying "seeing your vendor with 1000 pieces of sliced comp makes me want to quit armorsmithing", "seeing your nine factories all cranking 24/7 makes me want to quit armorsmithing"or "seeing your +21 experimentation suit in your workshop makes me want to quit armorsmithing."

Any armorsmith on Shadowfire can sell armor if they've got the resources to make the same stuff as the "established" 'smiths. Vendor limits aren't going to help them, unlessthose limitssimply drive the established crafters nuts and make us give it up. Frankly though, I see myself selling in bulk to resellers, guilds, or just people so frustrated with that they buy a lifetime's supply ofarmor in one shotbefore I give up the craft I enjoy.

Message Edited by DirthNader on 08-09-2004 06:26 AM

The artist formerly known as Ittov

Wire3k

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:26 am

#31

AudioOrgana wrote:

Honestly, I'm starting to feel this isn't a fix for Merchants, it's the Devs trying to get more people to add accounts to compensate.

The ones that are prone to do that already have- I have 3. Go thru some of the I quit threads - count how many have multiple accounts, 3, 6 even 8 or more.

Not only will this drive those out - but also all the singletons that refuse to buy another.

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DirthNader

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:32 am

#32

Wire3k wrote:

The ones that are prone to do that already have- I have 3. Go thru some of the I quit threads - count how many have multiple accounts, 3, 6 even 8 or more.

Not only will this drive those out - but also all the singletons that refuse to buy another.

Hehe, I was already thinking about dropping merchant entirely and simply selling in bulk before this change went live. I've got a second account, but I only get to play it once or twoce a week because I'm already busy taking care of crafting and vendors.

If these changes go live, I won't quit or drop armorsmithing. I'll pull up my vendors, drop merchant entirely, and keep on making armor. Just don't come to me expectingto buy anyunless you've got 15-20 million in hand to purchase a full run of 1000 segments worth of composite.

The artist formerly known as Ittov

Gyopi

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:37 am

#33

DocSavag wrote:
Guys I'm not preaching this theory I'm only giving you my honest opinion of what the devs think about it. Perhaps they will be good enough to share a more detailed opinion.

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

Well, I can tell you that I decided to break into weaponsmithing about a month or so ago. Its very competitive, especially since as a tailor for so long, I *still* don't have enough for all those skilltapes. Do I sell as many weapons as the long time weaponsmiths? No. Do most people on the server think of me when they think of weapons? No. On the other hand, I am making decent money (someone else who mastered at the same time as I did, but has more time to put into it makes more) and business is increasing. I am also beginning to see repeat customers. In other words, the business is going somewhere. Maybe I am not competive with the mega-smiths who have lots of every weapon on their vendor, but they certainly are not driving me out of business.

Momoko--Master Tailor near Kaadara on Lowca--
Come to Sitateya boutique at (5083 5804) on Naboo for elegant fashions, accessories, cute outfits, uniforms or any other clothing needs.
Eimi -- Master Bioengineer - Master Image Designer on Lowca--
Eimiko--Master Image Designer on TestCenter--

Sigrun

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:38 am

#34

If they want to give the "little guy" a chance against this sort of thing, the way to do that is NOT to eliminate the big guy's ability to sell.

It's to give buyers a way to easily find goods for sale.

Say I want to buy a Scout Blaster...

I walk up to the Bazaar terminal in Coronet and hit the "Search" button. Up pops the Bazaar's GUI that I use to drill down... I want a Weapon / Ranged / Pistol / Scout Blaster. I don't really want to travel off-world if I don't have to, so I select only Coronet from the list of planets. I could select multiple planets, I just chose not to because I don't want to travel. Then I click the "Do Search" button (or whatever).

After a moment's pause, the UI comes back with a listing of all the Scout Blasters on Coronet. Well, not all of them. It lists each unique type. Uniqueness is defined by a combination of serial number and vendor (so a vendor with 20 identical scout blasters shows up on one line). For each weapon, it lists the primary vital stats (speed, min damage, max damage), price, location, and quantity. I spin through the list and double-click on one that interests me. Up pops a detail window that shows all the gun stats. I don't like the HAM costs on that so I cancel out of the window and keep looking.

Eventually, I find one that I like so I buy it. I receive an email with a Waypoint to the vendor that's holding my gun for me (that sounded wrong!).

Time sink traveling to empty vendors? Gone.

One guy cornering the market? Only if he prices himself into it, I suppose.

Seems like a reasonbly level playing field, without nerfing our ability to actually, you know, sell stuff...

Message Edited by Sigrun on 08-09-2004 06:39 AM

Ingame Names: Sif @ Bria, Chilastra, Flurry, Naritus, Starsider | Hiordis @ Kettemoor | Freya @ Tempest
Quotable: It's pretty freaking underwhelming when the story turns out to be you, alone, in a field, for two weeks, punching toads. | At least SOE lasted a year before they went Turbine on us.

Alzanob-CH

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:39 am

#35

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

So the solutions for kill the monopoly of other crafting profession is nerf merchants?

It's more than right that this game is reallymuch "centralized" in the well know place and name, but for me this solution (i mean the 110 item, for me the other change are great)is worst than what he try to correct.

I think that for AS & WS&Chefwith 12 points and good resources in stock this will change nothing, just the need to find more merchant.

-= Horak Alza, Urban Planner, Mayor of Gaia, Talus =-
Politician--Master Artisan--Master Shipwrighter--Master Merchant

-= Nicoletta Alza, Jedi Padawan =-
Healer--Enhancer--Defender
ALZA Consumer Sale, Gaia 5267 -524

Wire3k

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:41 am

#36

DocSavag wrote:
Guys I'm not preaching this theory I'm only giving you my honest opinion of what the devs think about it. Perhaps they will be good enough to share a more detailed opinion.

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

Well, this story isn't from SWG, but it's regarding the exact same issue. Differences were the system wasn't nearly as deep, the products weren't nearly as needed nor were they as necessary for basic gameplay, in short - not nearly the demand for product. I was WELL established on my server - master tailor, top of the charts and this same exact issue came up. Newbies to crafting ALWAYS think they can't, well - I set out to prove them wrong.

Started fresh on a new server. No twinking, no help, no guild - nadda. Within 3 months - I was at the top of THAT server as a master tailor competing and excelling beyond folks that had been there since launch. Yes, it can be done, but not if you haven't a clue what it takes to be good at business - or interpersonal skills - or time to devote to it.

You wanna help newbies break into markets? Educate them. You probably can't help them much with interpersonal skills, that you pretty much have or ya don't but cash and supply management, market trend analysis and advertising all play a critical role in whether any crafter is going to succeed - or sit in their shop and wonder why they never sell anything - or are broke - or can't turn a profit, yes.....even in 'just a game'.

www.swgbio.com
On-line clothing catalog for tailors, bio-engineers and their customers

www.swgbio.com/mom
MMO Musings - Random Observations and my best advice
www.swgbio.com/myadvice.wav

EvilHomerSimpson

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:57 am

#37

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

I'm a new crafter. I've been playing for little over a month. I never had any trouble making money by selling things. And I think this is a huge issue that will break the game and make people leave.

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Lotussutol

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:58 am

#38

DocSavag wrote:
Guys I'm not preaching this theory I'm only giving you my honest opinion of what the devs think about it. Perhaps they will be good enough to share a more detailed opinion.

Its interesting I wonder how many of you who dismiss this as an issue at all are newer crafters.. I wonder if there are some who have stories about trying to break into markets or have stories about trying to compete with some of you

That post I made about Armani...he was not always one of the biggest crafters on Corbantis...I remember when he was the new guy starting out...

Vaelorn

Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:11 am

#39

I think there's a possibility that if this change goes live, we'll see crafters selling items to customers of the same "level" as the crafter.

i.e.: Master Weaponsmith, Master Armorsmith, will only make Master level items, and those items will only be affordable by Master Elite combat people. They won't waste vendor space on low level items that aren't worth much money, so newbies will stay away from the extremely high prices.

i.e.: Novice Weaponsmith, Novice Armorsmith, will only make Novice level items of VERY poor quality (because that's all they have the schematics, resources, and experimentation points for), and they will only be purchased by low level poverty-stricken Novice combat people.

If this occurs, it won't change the high level game very much, because Master Elite combat professions can run high level missions for high pay-outs, so their income can keep up with the inflated prices on high-end equipment (this isn't including all of the veteran players who already have 50+ MILLION credits rotting away in the bank). What it will do is completely screw all the newbies, because the only equipment they'll be able to afford will be high-priced garbage from a Novice crafter who simply does not have the experimentation ability or the resource quality to craft anything even remotely close to what we've gotten used to seeing. With such low experimentation, even if the Novice used all resources with 1000 in every important stat it would be completely wasted because the best they could do on experimentation would be around 30%.

It's hard enough to get started in this game, as ANY profession, be they crafter or combat or utility/support. The last thing we need to do is make it even more difficult by forcing new players to use CDEF weapons to level up to their novice Elite combat class!

Merchant Archive

Thread: Vendor NERF (Item limits) has nothing to do with DB. It has to do with controling crafters!