Merchant Archive

Lets try not to get overly dramatic. A major nerf? A major nerf is making Probots go from 3K health to 800 health. Although when Devs change something, I am in favor of making it less shocking to players like you are. So if they don't want to remove it, then make the Business 3 vendors have limit of 6k, and Business 4 vendors have limit of 9k. That would also be perfectly acceptable.

I also don't see how its forcing interaction through one class... Use the bazaar or just stand in the bank and shout your wares like TONS of people already are doing. Even with these proposed changes, every artisan has the option of not interacting witha merchant if they so choose. So no one is being forced to do anything.

I agree with you again on the Mom and Pop point. I think our previous suggestion would address that also. Price limits on Business vendors.

I am also doing really well as Merchant. Well over a million creds and upgrading all power and harvestors to larges as we speak. Regardless of how well you or I are doing, this does not change the facts about classes being unbalanced. Someone will always do well no matter how broken a class is. You never know if there are only 5 of us doing well and everyone else is struggling because artisan vendors are killing them. Maybe we are the lucky ones....

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XCal78 wrote:
I know lots of smugglers and medics who get artisan and business 3 just for 1 vendor instead of asking a merchant to sell their wares.

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And more importantly I know a lot of people that got business 3 placed their vendor then sold back those same skill points.

Here's the problem I see. There is no other class that I can think of in this game that people think; "Hmmm... Maybe I'll just stop at Novice because nothing else beneficial comes from the rest of the line."

You don't see weaponsmiths saying, ah I only need the 2nd tier gun crafting then I'm good. The merchant line does not have a single advantage. Vendors should be gated to merchant. It's not a subsystem of the game that would severely handicap your player if you didn't have it. The bazaar is a very powerful tool. The price limit on it is perfect. Business III and IV can have reduce bazaar fees. Increase the bazaar fee to 100 creds again, and have it cost 20 once you hit Business IV. Any noob can do a couple delivery missions to get 1500 creds to pay the 100 fee if they really want to sell something. Switch Novice Merchant to cost 5000 gcxp instead of merchant xp.

After that we can work on making the rest of the line worth having.

Here's the problem I see. There is no other class that I can think of in this game that people think; "Hmmm... Maybe I'll just stop at Novice because nothing else beneficial comes from the rest of the line."

Oh really? We tailors get that all the time. Armorsmiths get to fieldware 2 so they can make their own reinforced fiberplast panels. Dancers and entertainers have people who have someone who grab some of the entertainer level dance moves and entertainment healing and don't go to cantinas (there is no practical game advantage to go past the entertainer level for healing purposes). Docs have people who pick up a few basic medical skills and buy their stims and wound healing packs from a shop.

And I find it interesting that you make the freudian slip of using the term "novice" and not business 3. Isn't the end point of this to force people to go to novice and stop instead of forcing them to go to business 3 and stop? How is that really going to help the pathetic creatures that are efficiency or advertising? It's not.

The answer to merchant woes is to fix merchant, not nerf newbie artisans and artisan-merchants.

And pure merchants buying products for resale is a paradigm that I just don't see happening. I think people had better get over that. It's not going to happen as a casual part of gaming. If you have a friend you can really trust it might. But it's not going to otherwise. The future of merchanting will come in vendor malls run by merchants for multiple artisans with artisans controlling their own vendors.

There are so many things you could be fighting for to add to merchant and make it more appealing instead of going and bashing some poor newbie with a big ugly box.

And one final comment: Artisan Merchants Are Real Merchants

*sigh*

I did this in EQ....

I have a particular ability for picking the wost / bugged / useless professions in any MMORPG..

In EQ I pickeda Mage, In SWG I've picked Merchant..

Personally I think this game is just too **edit** easy all round... (I mean come on, after 1 month we have people who have fully mastered elite professions ?? - That should take 2-3 months minimum in my opinion..)

I agree the game is very easy in general. I think that will change a great deal for people who are starting on new servers after all the holes are plugged. I play on Wanderhome and people who come to the server are sometimes shocked by the economy--things like no 5k houses because we never had a building boom with "free harvestors." Wait until the first server starts without factory experience and macro sampling.

I think merchant is a great profession. But I just don't think it's a profession you need to go to master to do well in. I'm not sure that merchant shouldn't have just been a single line in the artisan tree. 95% of merchanting is your personality, interpersonal skills, and organizational skills. No amount of tinkering with what you get at what box is going to convince me to shut down my shop in favor of wholesaling to a merchant when the best pitch I've gotten so far has been "well, um, I wanna be a merchant, want to sell stuff at my shop when I get one?" There needs to be a lot more added to it, particularly in advertising. But if you want to make your living selling things, which is what I do, this is a really fun path.

I also think that the purchase and resell notion is the wrong end of the stick to grab merchant by. It's just not going to happen other than with a PA or some place where there's far far more trust. There are a lot of lines that need to get strengthened. But fundamentally, the biggest problem with merchanting is the lack of ability to place vendors for other people, which is a housing permissions thing. Making that the bread and butter of merchants would make this an incredibly important and powerful line of skills. But right now, it's something you can do without any skill at all, but for which there are no controls or ability to charge automatically.UO for example is changing their vendor system to allow "vendor contracts"-- a house owner can sign a contract that allows another play to place a merchant, specifies how many items the vendor can have, how long they can stay, how much the merchant is charging to allow placement, and if they can renew the contract. This kind of system would be fantastic for a merchant skill.

And pure merchants buying products for resale is a paradigm that I just don't see happening. I think people had better get over that. It's not going to happen as a casual part of gaming. If you have a friend you can really trust it might. But it's not going to otherwise.

Hrm, I find that comment without merit. I have approximately 20 suppliers, some of whom sell exclusively TO me. 3-4 for each of the major artisan lines. I do not craft a single item, I ONLY buy and sell items from other crafters to players. I gross over 1M credits a week, and easily approach 500K in the same time period.

Why? A lot of reasons. Convenience for one. Stability for another. My customers know they can get what they want when they want it from me. They're not vendor hopping across the galaxy, nor do they have to worry about an empty or nearly empty vendor waiting for them. With the number of redundant suppliers I bring together as a merchant, I am able to provide a service to my customers. I have already had 3 individualcrafters drop their own vendors and sell through me, because they did not want the hassle of maintaining a customer base. They wanted to craft items when they felt like it, drop em off, go out and hunt or play, and receive their checks in the mail.

And one final comment: Artisan Merchants Are Real Merchants

I agree with this statement, WHEN they have taken up the Novice Merchant skill box.

I am not asking for a nerfot the artisan class, I'm asking for a redress to the balancing issue we merchants face. The entire bazaar line of skills should be under the business heading, and all privatelyrun vendor skills should belong to the merchant class. Not unlike the necessity of requiring commando for Acid Guns, or Bounty Hunter for Seeker droids.

"Armorsmiths get to fieldware 2 so they can make their own reinforced fiberplast panels."

Oooo they make a schematic to run off 1,000 items. They unlearn it. Resources shift now they need to relearn it to make more. Business 3 you drop a vendor and NEVER have to learn it again ever! Free vendor forever. See a problem? No other artisan thing can get a perminate bonus for not having a box learn except a vendor. Kills the merchant class completely. It's impossible to compair anything to business 3 vendors as nothing can do this but business 3 vendor. It's a huge exploit and miss-use of the class. If you were forced to get novice merchant via bazaar sales this would effectively discourage this completely.

Oooo they make a schematic to run off 1,000 items. They unlearn it. Resources shift now they need to relearn it to make more.

I fail to see how my class having holes in total interdependence is any different than yours. The largest source of income for the tailor class is available with field 2. So what? They spent the points. (I have lost three clients to this who were previously buying 20-50,000 credits worth of panels in each order.)

Business 3 you drop a vendor and NEVER have to learn it again ever! Free vendor forever. See a problem?

Not really, no I don't. It's ugly and its expensive. It's mainly used by newbies and people who have a very small number of things to sell. In any case what is the difference between that and "Novice merchant you drop a vendor and NEVER have to larn it again ever! Free vendor forever. See a problem?" (The answer is 11 skill points.)

If you are saying you shouldn't be able to keep a vendor if you unlearn a skill, then I'd agree.I would hope if you surrender business 3 or merchant skills your vendors poof.

If you were forced to get novice merchant via bazaar sales this would effectively discourage this completely.

If you were forced to become a master tailor to make any sort of clothing it would discourage all these people I see running around in casual pants and short sleeve jackets too. But I have better things that that and this allows me to prosper despite the fact that anyone with two hours can make their own clothes. The answer for merchants is the same: make merchant valuable and distinctive.

Once you get artisans nerfed will you really be happy? Merchant as a class will still have very little in the upper level boxes. It's there where the problem lies.

Look at the suggestions for shops. Those are a great idea for the merchanting tree. It's just a start.

Also I've yet to hear 1 item an artisan can make and sell over 3k to require a vendor.

Resources. Miners and scouts want to be able to set up a shop for their customers independent of the bazaar. Scouts find the "grind" ofchurning artisan items to get to business 3 to be a hardship already since they only are interested in a vendor and have no interest in making anything.

My main hide supplier (Salias Grym)has I think only two other customers. He wants his three clients to get all of his hides, he doesn't want them on the bazaar. And I want to buy hides in lots of 1000 or more, which at 10k+ is much higher than the bazaar allotment anyway. Offering them locks them into one or another of us and we don't always need them. It's far easier if we buy them as we need them from his house. Doing business with a pure merchant is not helpful because the aim is to supply hides in our own neigborhood to a limited number of people--if he has to go through a middleman he might as well contact us directly.

That's exactly the kind of thing that a vendor at business 3 is supposed to handle.

I want to chime in on the completely fallacious notion that since YOU don't do business this way, nobody does. I continue to be a 'pure' merchant, and in fact am only one box from Master. I buy and sell from 50 to 250k a day of resources, stimpaks, weapons, deflectors, droids, clothing, spices, and whatnot.

Even without any in-game tools for this I:

-- Take consignments, and pay on those consignments via /tip or per delivery.

-- Give discounts and refunds as needed.

-- Hire 'runners' to pick up large lots for me off-planet.

-- Advertise my store at the starport and the bank, as well as Global Map advertising.

And a ton more stuff. I play the float, I finance purchases, I support dedicated up-and-coming artisans and buy regularly from a stable of good quality people I know and trust.

I run a virtual Business, with all the fun and hard work that entails. If something doesn't make me money I drop it like a hot rock, if something makes a profit I repeat it until it stops. I also run a business in real life and I find myself learning things (even at my advanced age..) every day that I use in the virtual world as well as in RL.

I, of course, want my profession to be BETTER. I want the tools to expand BEYOND the small house I bought the 2nd day of launch into an inter-planetary conglomerate (without it becoming a RL-type job!). I want being a Merchant to be SPECIAL...not a few minor skills an artisan picks up on a slow day.

- Where's my freighter? -Where can i buy henchman? -What advantages will I see when i finally ding Master? What advantages would an artisan get from dealing with me that i dont' bring to the table through my personality and good business practices? What can be changed to bring more value to my customers?

If Artisans need to be nerfed a bit, SO BE IT. I worked through Artisan in a few days. I still need only Dom IV to ding Master Artisan too..but I'm not interested in grinding any more muzzles.

In conclusion, merchants are one of the few classes that has no 'grindage', no macros, nothing that helps you get experience but pure guts and sweat. Until there's an 'easy' want to get to Master Merchant, this class deserves some respect. If there's a light at the end of this tunnel (i.e. ships, henchmen, corporate perks, anything!) then we need to have a glimpse of it. If there's never going to be an advantage then I want my time back, and my experience so I can go be a Bounty Hunter/CH L33t D00d and at least enjoy PVP and high-end encounters

I love my class..but for gods sake we could use some respect.

Csin Csity

Manager/Propagandist/Efficiency Expert (ok.I made that one up)

Prop. of Csin's Bargain Csity -400,-5500 Coronet, Corellia --Bloodfin

Merchant is so broke I didn't even get my efficency or ad titles. They don't appear in my list. Total BS. I got hiring and add vendor titles tho. Not as nice as master title tho.

"Miners and scouts want to be able to set up a shop for their customers independent of the bazaar."

Here's the "real" issue right here! If merchant class was setup and working right they would go to a merchant to sell stuff no be worried about interdependance and solo game play. If you wanta go outside the bazaar seek a merchant. If I want a sword I seek a weaponsmith. If I want a shield genorator I seek a armorsmith. Why then do people who seek a vendor not have to see an elite class EVER?!?!??!

"It's ugly and its expensive."

All terminals cost the SAME amount! I fail to see how this makes any difference in anything for this thread. Only thing that modifies maintance is efficency 3 and you save a very small amount. Plus if they can afford a house they can afford a vendor. If they can't afford a vendor seek someone with money to sell for them.

"Once you get artisans nerfed will you really be happy? Merchant as a class will still have very little in the upper level boxes. It's there where the problem lies."

That's a problem too but you don't work backwards to fix a proeblm you start at the beginning and work your way up. You can't fix anything till you have a solid foundation for the class. Fixing the top boxes only helps few dozen people vs fixing business3 would affect all merchants and benifit all merchants. No matter where they fix it I'm getting the fix so I personally don't care if they fix high, mid, or low boxes since it all helps me. I just know a lot of merchants in the low boxes who could use a boost and fixing the foundation is the logical place to fix any problem.

"He wants his three clients to get all of his hides, he doesn't want them on the bazaar. And I want to buy hides in lots of 1000 or more, which at 10k+ is much higher than the bazaar allotment anyway."

Good for personal choices. Anyone can still do busines via bazaar without any hold-ups. Resources can be done via the bazaar as effectively if not more effectively then on a vendor. Specially right now with vendor resource issue. If you don't like the bazaar use trade window. Nothing stops someone from breaking resources up to sell at 3k limit. Again I say *nothing* an artisan sells *needs* a vendor. Vendor is an option, nice to have, *toy* for artisans.

FYI: Nothing against anyone personally I'm just voicing my opinons not here to personally attack anyone I'm open to new views and suggestions if anyone has good ideas. Merchant class is a HUGE part of my daily game play so I use it a lot. Thus I know all the ins and outs in great details. Also played a merchant in beta.