Merchant Archive

Thread: Why Should People Who Don't Have Merchant Loose Their Venders, A Valid Arguement Why They Shouldn't

Barris
Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:49 pm
#27

If you want to admit it or not, this nerf, to those like me which you flame because you stick up for your profession (which is made up of a good deal of crafters which don't need their SP's to try to survive in the PvE or PvP system), this will affect you. The inflation will affect you.


People having venders with out the skill didn't hurt you, this nerf will. So flame on, Gj, you'll contribue to the economy thats going to go out of wack.




Wire3k
Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:57 pm
#28






JeCy wrote:

you get rid of all these exploiter's that have been killing our bussiness and giveing all reputable merchants a bad name since day one..empty vendors, storage vendors. global listings.. barking.. enough is enough.. im soooo glad this is being done



Je'Cy Dax






News flash skippy - 'poached' vendors don't hurt a good shop's business. Now, if you barely know what you are doing - and someone else does it better sure - but don't look at skill points expended for that - those are PERSONAL skills and if you don't have them now to attract customers - you won't have them later either.


Empty vendors are NOT a skill point issue - it's an issue with the thousands of people that have left the game and their vendors never disappeared. It's an issue of vendors continue to remain hundreds of thousands of credits into the red.


Storage vendors - this doesn't stop or even slow those down.


Global listings, barking - well, folks without skills can't change any of that, but in any case - the listings which might be the ONLY valid arguement will be going away.


Bravo for you getting your stock down - you probably will get business if you are one of the few left - tell me, exactly how often do you plan to restock - once a day, twice a day - live in your shop 10 hours a day?


The more people that participate in the buying and selling of goods the better off everyone is - yes, including folks that you seem to despise so much. Crafting is the heartbeat of this game, and methods of distribution is it's lifeblood. When the whole thing keels over from a massive coronary - just remember you asked for it.



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Barris
Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:27 pm
#29

Actually, if you didn't have the skills to use it this wouldn't be an issue at all. The fact is, the skill is placing. Not using.
MaDuece
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:18 pm
#30






Barris wrote:

Actually, if you didn't have the skills to use it this wouldn't be an issue at all. The fact is, the skill is placing. Not using.







Like the title of this thread, this statement is ridiculous.


You keep saying that there is a valid arguement why you should be able to keep your vendor without keeping the appropriate skills but you have yet to give one. NONE of your reasons are centered around anything but yourself and your personal needs and wants.


Just because you have a vendor doesn't mean you contribute to the economy. There are plenty of vendors sitting idle that disprove this theory. Besides, there are 100s of people that have zero merchant or artisan skills and have never had a vendor that have millions in their bank accounts. Yes, you can contribute and participate in the economy and not have to have a vendor. Go to the trade forums and the proof is right under your nose.


I really don't have any sympathy for your krayt shop. The price of tissue and pearls are so high that I'm sure you are doing quite well for yourself. The demand for tissue has always been there and with more people unlocking their Jedi the demand for pearls has nowhere to go but up. YOU JUST WANT TO HAVE THAT VENDOR AT NO COST TO YOURSELF SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND GO FIND A BUYER. Plain and simply.

Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-15-2004 10:57 PM

Tarnak_Archvold
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:38 pm
#31

Why should we get a combat rewrap and a GCW overhaul? After all pvp have worked fine for over a year, and so has the GCW.

It he same reason why we need to get the vendor exploit fixed. Because It was not intended to work as it does currently.

And we have complained... for as long as we have been aware of the exploit we have asked for it to be removed. Now some people will be loosing thair vendors, I realize that. Nevertheless, they were not mend to have vendors, and if they really need them then can pick up merchant skills. It a choice just like everything else. And the sooner the exploiters loose that advantage the sooner the echonomy can start to recover.

Of and if any ex-master of combat professions kept large part of the skills then it would have a huge effect on the economy, not just on PvP.

It is not balance if a ex-merchant and a merchant are on equal footing, anymore then it if for a ex-rifleman and a rifleman to be on equal footing.




"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.
MaDuece
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:44 pm
#32






Wire3k wrote:





JeCy wrote:

you get rid of all these exploiter's that have been killing our bussiness and giveing all reputable merchants a bad name since day one..empty vendors, storage vendors. global listings.. barking.. enough is enough.. im soooo glad this is being done



Je'Cy Dax






News flash skippy - 'poached' vendors don't hurt a good shop's business.

I got news for you fishy. "Poached vendors" hurt EVERYONE. It devalues an entire profession. It gives other players an unfair advantage by allowing them to keep the benefits while taking up other skills when that benefit to theother professionsisn't reciprocal. Crafters don't get to drop their skills to participate in other activities. Neither do entertainers. So why should merchant skills be treated any differently? Don't use that crap about merchant not meant to be a legit profession either like you have in other threads. It is a legit profession know so get used to it.


Empty vendors are NOT a skill point issue - it's an issue with the thousands of people that have left the game and their vendors never disappeared. It's an issue of vendors continue to remain hundreds of thousands of credits into the red.

AND its ALSO a skill point issue. Short of naming names, I know of several people on my server who operate vendors as a little side item to make extra money. Their primary interests lie elsewhere. They leave their vendors empty of ANY merchandise but their storage items stay intact. They never take these vendors off the planetary map when it get to this situation. You know why? BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE. They don't care if you drive halfway across the planet to come look at the contents of their "basement". They don't care if it doesn't sell anything for awhile. When they do finally decide to stock it, they go out to the populated starports and spam that they just stocked it. It sells out in 2 days and the cycle repeats itself. You know why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T COST THEM A THING. Vendor maintenance is so low they can afford to just use it as is. Since they can drop the skill requirements, it doesn't cost them anything there either. Its a 2nd easy money source on the side. Now if they were required to keep those skills I'm sure it would be another matter entirely. It may not deter all of them, but it will certainly go a long ways to improving the present state of affairs.


Storage vendors - this doesn't stop or even slow those down.

You don't know this because it hasn't been tried yet. Totally baseless arguement. It may not stop it entirely, but I'm willing to bet it will slow it down (refer to rant above^).


Bravo for you getting your stock down - you probably will get business if you are one of the few left - tell me, exactly how often do you plan to restock - once a day, twice a day - live in your shop 10 hours a day?

The vendor cap hasn't been set yet. Why don't you spend some of this energy discussing this matter rather than coming up with excuses why things should stay the same because they AREN'T going to stay the same.


The more people that participate in the buying and selling of goods the better off everyone is.

People ARE participating and many of them have never had the skills much less a vendor. Some of the richest players on my server are combatants; not crafter/merchants. Take the guy I bought 2 100k stacks of premium carnivore meat from last week for example. He made 8 million credits off of me for my chef business. Go to the trade forums. Krayt loot (the business of the author of this thread)has an enormous profit margin. Geonosian loot, DWB loot, meat, hide, even those damm rug components.

The excuse that everyone of them NEEDS a vendor without retaining the required skills is just that: an excuse.


Crafting is the heartbeat of this game, and methods of distribution is it's lifeblood. When the whole thing keels over from a massive coronary - just remember you asked for it.

If the economy keels over it won't be because of the vendor issue. Just wait till after hologrinding stops and then JTL. Buts thats another topic for another thread.






RodianForge
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:52 pm
#33

I'm a crafter (Master Artisan,Master DE, Master Chef)with some merchant skills (3 4 0 4). I've been this way most of the time I've been playing. I make my money from crafting and selling things off my vendor.


I gonna say whats been said.


You shouldn't be allowed to have those vendors cause you gave up Merchant, period.


You say its not hurting the game its allowing the economy to flourish you are mistaken. There are more vendors on Corellia than I'd care to count. When the fix goes in that number will drop. Then people who have the skills to sell things will be able too, not every Tom, Jack, and Jill on the planet who at one point in their early SWG career decided to 'dabble' in Merchant.


I'm not crazy about item caps but if I have to put up with item caps on vendors I'm not going to worry. It'll cost me 2 vendors to do my Chef sales (Food and Drinks) instead of 1. Beyond that I don't see it as that big a deal. And its going to make my sales increase I'm hoping at least 50% if not more cause the competition will fade away.



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Wire3k
Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:49 pm
#34






MaDuece wrote:



Crafting is the heartbeat of this game, and methods of distribution is it's lifeblood. When the whole thing keels over from a massive coronary - just remember you asked for it.

If the economy keels over it won't be because of the vendor issue. Just wait till after hologrinding stops and then JTL. Buts thats another topic for another thread.








Oh - between disrupting distribution models that HAVE worked - for those that really want to enjoy their time in the universe AND hamstringing totals for those few crafters that don't throw up their hands in disgust - then driving away the few that DO stay thinking oh boy - then realizing how much work it really is - yeah, the whole thing is very likely to crumple into a pile of dust.


I've been posting for months what merchants need to make them viable as a WANTED class - but you are making the mistake of thinking any of these changes are for us - the players, they aren't. They are kneejerk reactions by the devs to what they think THEIR problems are, what players want or need to function factors very little into the equation. While you are hopping up and down feeling all vindicated remember this isn't for you - it's because they think they can take another bite out of their poorly designed DB systems that they either think they can't - or simply don't want to invest the time into fixing.


Selling one's goods is as integral to the crafting process as looting is to someone out killing stuff. If you think it was ever meant to be a profession along the lines of others you are sadly mistaken - it was an attempt to limit player's activities thru a skillpoint sink. Most very successful crafters gracefully sidestep this limitation with multiple accounts. So - that theory goes out the window. Those that are inclined to do that - already have, those that this will impact the most more than likely are not able or willing to have multiple accounts - it will likely drive them clean out of the game. Item limits that are unacceptable - or are shown to be unacceptable because it turns the joy of running a shop into drudgery will drive out far more - folks with those multiple accounts.


Goods unavailable or taking hours and hours to find - this hits Joe Average "I just wanna blow things up" right where he lives and he will soon follow.


So, tell me again - how is this all a good thing? Oh yeah, empty worlds will indeed shrink the DB down to managable levels - unfortunately at that point there is no reason for it to exist in the first place.




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Wire3k
Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:02 am
#35






MaDuece wrote:






Wire3k wrote:





......disrupting distribution models that HAVE worked.


Worked for YOU. Worked for those that don't want to expend and commit the skill point requirements. Whats the matter? Is this cutting into your Ebay business?



Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-16-2004 12:31 AM




Worked for me and pretty much everyone else - and in case you are late to these forums - I HAVE a master merchant as well as some merchant on my 3rd toon - but nice try. Not sure what the reference to Ebay is all about never bought or sold anything there, but I have had an extremely successful and appreciated store since release.


As far as others coming in to fill in niches - ayup, that does happen - but there is such a thing as critical mass in MMOs - lose it and you are in trouble - deep, deep trouble.


Apparently you haven't seen all the posts from well established longtime crafters that have said they have either already cancelled - or their fingers are hovering over the button. Normally - you can take the average player's threat to quit with a grain of salt - the exception to that is the crafting community. That's true of any MMO I've ever played (several over many years). Crafters will adapt as best they can - as long as they can, until you make it counterproductive for them or they feel they aren't contributing any longer.


But you really need to get your complaints straight. If all these poachers you are so sure are spoiling your fun aren't 'serious' - they can't possibly produce enough - or have enough steady clientele to impact any serious business. There are aspects to crafting/merchant that go far beyond game mechanics - these would be personal and business skills. If you don't have those now, enough to run a successful operation - you won't have them afterwards either. I guess I've always been far too busy keeping my operation running smoothly to have the time or inclination to be sticking my nose in my neighbor's business.


The thing that's always attracted me to the crafting game is it isn't a win/lose competition like everything else. For any merchant to be effective and successful - you have to find the niches that produce win/win. You CANNOT be successful if others lose, everyone is a potential customer.





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BountyBlunter
Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:06 am
#36










Barris wrote:


Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. Don't take my explotied vendors .. Blah .. Blah .. Placing not using .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. No one is upset by everyone exploiting this profession .. Blah .. Blah .. Merchants with SP invested are the same as anyone without invested SP as we all went through the .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. No flames please but you're a bunch of pissy merchants defending a usless profession .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. Hear me Roar .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah ..





...Same old discussion , different Moron...

Message Edited by BountyBlunter on 08-16-2004 11:48 AM



Arok K'tah ::Radiant:: Master Doc + Producer of cheap buffs and medical supplies.

Hoz Turner ::Radiant:: Mayor of Avalon + Producer of cheap munchies and beverages.

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EraserSebastian
Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:33 am
#37

Feel free to flame, etc....but if you don't get it why those who don't have the points shouldn't have a vendor, my oh my, where is this world heading? If you can't understand why legit merchants have no problem with the vendors being removed from the game where the owner of them has no merchant skills, then you don't understand business whatsoever.




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Jolieann
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:08 am
#38

WELL WELL... im all for this idea, for the following reasons


- storage is an issue because you dont wannatax the servers.why not tax the player instead.

A) expand the banking system. ex: 100 credits / week for each item over the standard (100)

REBUTAL: because for us that have a myriad of items in most cases, have the wealth to

Iannyen
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:27 am
#39






BountyBlunter wrote:










Barris wrote:


Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. Don't take my explotied vendors .. Blah .. Blah .. Placing not using .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. No one is upset by everyone exploiting this profession .. Blah .. Blah .. Merchants with SP invested are the same as anyone without invested SP as we all went through the .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. No flames please but you're a bunch of pissy merchants defending a usless profession .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah .. Hear me Roar .. Blah .. Blah .. Blah ..





...Same old discussion , different Moron...


Message Edited by BountyBlunter on 08-16-2004 11:48 AM





I think that about sums it up nicely. You made one error though. He hasn't spelled vendOr correctly yet.



Iannyen Cap'asin
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Personal Orders are available, as well as decorating services;

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