Merchant Archive
Thread: Monopolies Can and Have existed ... a Case study.
Which is exactly why we need to hear WHY these changes are necessary before we can effectively offer ideas , IMHO.
khamafeu wrote:
DB size i don't know... in the recent patches they've added 5 loot kits + 9 paintings + assorted stuff... after adding 70+ items to the game how is DB an issue?
Mikhail24 wrote:
Slowing commerce down is only another way to broaden the gap between casual & hardcore crafters.
Ok, rebuttal number 2. One of the key differences in our debate here is that we are defining monopolies as fundamentally different things.
- My definition - A single producer who exclusively controls the means of producing or selling a good or service. Giving them the ability to set the price as high as they want.
- Your definition - A single producer or group of producers, controlling 60% of the market,who can greatly influence the price of goods in a market. I would argue that this definition is so loose as to be meaningless. If you look at the 60% of the market in any industry, those companies all greatly affect the price.
> The source of wealth is not germain andshould not come into play as an argument for or against "monopoly powers" or "monopoly market share".
Sort of agree. Business require money to make money (Capital). If i gave you a billion dollars tomorrow, with the requiste smarts, you could set up a pretty good business pretty quickly. Business either grow capital via profit from sales or investors. Since SWG doesn't have capital markets (other than impromtu ones via guilds), most businesses grow via sales of goods or money missions. If huge amounts of capital are generated illegally (via counterfiting), that would allow stryker a hugely competitive advantage. But I left it out as an argument because if he did cheat, his success wasn't typical or likely repeatable via legal means.
> Yes ... Stryker had monopoly market share
We are defining monopolies differently, according your defination yes. Mine no.
> This had nothing to do with "unfair government" anything. unfair is an subjective term and is likewise subjective to the eye of the beholder.
To keep a coericive monopoly in place, which in a free market can't exist, the government has to do SOMETHING to stop other competitors. Unfair is subjective, but in SWG all players are subject to the same rules, so no unfair advantage of any degree is possible.
> This person had monopoly market share in more then 1 area ...
Again. Differing definitions, so different conclusions. I'll cite some real sources for my definition, Alan Greenspan/Ayn Rand - Capitialism - The Unknown Ideal. Cite some for your definition please.
> I can show several things that were "bad" due to what he did ... quite a few ... the least of which is drive other weaponsmiths out of business ... on purpose.
All businesses seek to drive their competitors out of business, inwith varying degrees of competitance, as they try to become more successful. Free markets will allows lower the price of goods overtime. It also forces uncompetitve business out of business. We can have a socialist ecomomic simulation gameif you like, where uncompetiant businessman can succeed too by bartering for favors with the governement instead of producing goods efficienctly, but I doubt many folks would want to play it for long. But since SWG is a capitist free market simulation, we should stick to that.
> You contridict yourself. You can't have a "free market" and also not have 'threats' of monopolies.
Dead wrong. Truly Free Markets prevent coercive monopolys through their own rules. Capital allows flows to most profitable oppurtnity and a Coercive monopoly is very profitable, so competitors will show up. Onlyintervention by government (i.e. SWG rules) can prevent new competitors from entering.
> Even in a "free economy" there are laws and regulations about what you can and can not do ... currently I don't see any of those in place. Do you? Where are the anti-trust laws for example? The very foundation for "free market" is "fair market".
I would argue that the foundation of a free market is property rights. Individuals have a right to sell what they make, and to be secure in their property. Anti-Trust laws were created (in the US) to break up government created railroad monopolies, where the US government stole land from individual owners (or gave federal land grants, i.e. stole from taypayer), gave it to private railroad companies, then passed laws to prevent other competitors from legally building railroads. No government unfair advantage, no coercive monopoy, no need for anti-trust laws. Governement was at fault, the 'free market' got the blame. 'Fair market' is anotherterm for protecting uncompetive businesses at the expense of tax payers.
As stated before, no such in game rules allow any player to build such a business. If there were a limited supply of harvesters, factories or vendors, then yes, someone could own all of them and create a monopoly.
> Stick to the study and knock off the book stuff if you want to make ground here.
I find it difficult to argue about economic theory without applying economic theory (which I usually read in a book) to it. The case study you have provided still doesn't meet the 'book theory' on what a monopoly is.
In conclusion, I doubt very much we will change each other's mind about what a monopoly is or isn't. But I hope the readers of this thread will realize that SWG monopolies can't exist, and the 'protections' (vendor caps) SWG is thinking of providing will not help them in the slightest against the hardworking successful business creatures of SWG. It will only hurt them in the form of higher prices, which are the net result of any government protectism.
only86 wrote:
Hero!
I'm surprised you didn't throw my name into the mix with monopolies!
I am one of the only people on eclipse that has an absolute monopoly on 4 Different items..
45 FR crafting stations
Nobody else took the best resources in the game on that one day crafting changed and made them.. so >
I can charge insane prices for them
mainly 1mil each
Which is Many times over what it costs to make
anyway
Not sure if it has any relevance I didn't really read all the posts due to lack of time
but thought I'd throw it out.. it is a true monopoly
This isn't truly relevant for the argument, mainly because if I understand correctly, you can't produce more, so you don't control the means of production, which is whata monopoly is. These items are really rare, so hence really valuable. But there are substitute goods which are almost as good, (i.e. +44.143 station or the like). You charging that price don't affect the price of most crafting stations.
I am one of the only people on eclipse that has an absolute monopoly on 4 Different items.. 45 FR crafting stations
Nobody else took the best resources in the game on that one day crafting changed and made them.. so >
I can charge insane prices for them mainly 1mil each
Aeja wrote:Only thing I can say about the Micro Soft crap is since they were not allowed to bundle their software with the operating system now Im stuck with FREAKIN WORD PERFECT (or pay for word wich 9 out of 10 people use).
Problem solved
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EnigmaBSc