Merchant Archive

Thread: Database Fixes that we would LOVE not nerfs!

DarkDeathDude
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:59 am
#14

Whether its easy or not isnt our problem , we pay for a service, we should get that service


If my TV provider suddenly told me i can only watch 3 hours a day, instead of unlimited TV , Id get a new provider.


Database changes can be hard, but some suggestions are easy.


its not hard to delete all the 'serial numbers' on items, that would remove one entire column across several Tables in a database

Its not hard to change the limit of stacks, hell that limit probaly isnt database related anyway. but then u would find that the number of items in the databse would shrink rapidly as people consolidated their stacks to the new 500k/1mill limit.








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The_Elder_Silverhawk
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:11 am
#15

One simple change, make all factory items have the same crate size. Since Structure modules can stack to 100 make that the universal for all items. Generator turbines for instance only stack to 15 per crate. 6 crates is 90 GT's; with this change you free up 5 crates that need to be stored and therefore tracked by the DB.

The real problem here is that we do not have the base structure of the Db to work from. If we knew that we could make more helpful suggestions. Would it be giving any secrets away to let us know the generic structure of the Db using simple field and sub field identifiers?
DarkDeathDude
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:16 am
#16

All med items crate to 50, until Blankets came along and they max out at 30 a crate


Recently i had a run of blumbush painintgs made by an artitect for me , 15 items per crate! what a waste of Database space!

Power Ups are just as bad at a 10 max out.


All those limits are to provent hoarding etc etc, well you cant prevent it, people have extra accounts, closed account houses, lot swaps, u name it people hoard it, and no matter how u try to prevent it, you wont.

In fact your efforts to prevent hoarding with small numbered crates and 100k stacks has in fact backfired and given you a database overload!!


Sony only have themselves to blame for this situation, but as ever, the honest gamer suffers again.





.--.
Leader of GDC ::\`--._,'.::.`._.--'/:: Found Spiderwell you have
Vendors & MedShop ::::. ` __::__ ' .:::: Master Doctor I am
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Happymob
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:16 am
#17






Redfyree wrote:

1. Have factories create ONE create of product up to a crate of 1000 items.

2. Have resources stack up to a Million units, not 100k




When this was brought up earlier, they said "no" as they didn't want us to horde large quantities of resources. But there is a compromise that reduces database size and still doesn't give us additional storage -


Let us stack same serial items in crates of 1000 and resources in stacks of unlimited size, but re-introduce volume on these stacks. For example, if stim Bs stack in 50, than I could carry a full factory run of 1000 in a single crate, but it would take up 20 inventory slots. If I have a stack of 1.5 million units of a resource, it shows as 1 stack, but takes up 15 inventory slots. If I have a stack of 89,000 units, it's 1 inventory slot, just like today.


This helps me because my inventory is better organized. I don't have to click on 30 100K stacks of wild corn to find the one single type I am looking for. I can see exactly how much of something I have much more easily. When moving components between factories (or from the output hopper to the input hopper), I don't have to make 20 moves. I avoid moving the worng subcomponent crate with a different serial number. When selling a full factory run of a subcomponent, I can stock a single crate, instead of 20 in a backpack. It does not give me the ability to store more items. SOE's objection is gone. It also reduces the number of individual database records by a huge amount.


As a rough guess, thing would reduce the individual stacks/crates that I "own" in various non-vendor inventory by around 30% based on consolidated subcomponent crates and consolidated resource stacks. There's still a lot of junk (smaller animal resource stacks, loot, clothes) that would be unaffected.


But let's take it a step farther. Let's change the vendor interface to allow per unit sales. Let me stock in full crates and full resource stacks. Let me set a per unit price. Let the customer choose the number of units to buy, splitting the crate/stack as purchase time. I benefit because I can now sell to both small time and big time purchasers. Stocking is also signifincantly easier, because I have fewer crates/stacks to deal with. And best of all,I've just reduced the database records that my vendors generate by around 60%.


There is significant upside for the crafter in ease of use (without giving us more storage ability). There is significant upside to SOE in terms of database savings. It's a win-win. Which means neither of these suggestions will ever get done.




Imadoh and Ikiecobi
Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo
NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076


Congrexes
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:36 am
#18

I would have to say that this nerf, the merchant class, is really going to just build a bigger problem. People that been playing this game since the start are going to lose their business' empire, due to the 110 limit. I don't think that 110 items is a fare number. That is way to low even for newbies. How can you ever master the class if you have tomaintain suchlow amount of itemsfor sale. This game Economyis going to fall into a tailspin that it will not recover from. I hope that SWG developers really rethink what they are planing to do. They might end up losing a whole lot of people because of this new nerf reamp. Many great merchants already are saying they are going out of business as soon as this reamp takes place tomorrow. I for one, do not think its worth playing as a merchant if i can just stick to 25 items in the bazzar and now 110 items in vendors now. SWG developers PLEASE rethink this.... or I don't think I'll be around for too long myself with this new handycap...


Larek Darksword (Flurry)
LadyGrace
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:57 am
#19

The consolidation of crates and resources is a great idea and has come up many times in this whole debate about the limitations of SOE's database.


The consolidation of houses though, is one I have not read before and is areally niceidea. As long as you include lots in the equation as well as maintenance, this would save on map and world drawing space, and also be really useful to players. You should be able dedicate as many lots up to your maximum to a house and get a corresponding adjustment of storage and maintenance fees.


Each lot dedicated to a house would add 75 item storage on that house.


Fee schedule could go something like this:


Small: 8c perhourper lot

Medium: 17c perhour per lot

Large: 25c perhour per lot

PA Hall: 50c perhour per lot


So if you had a Large house and dedicated 8 lots to it, you would get 600 items storage space, and it would cost you 200 creds per hour in maintenance.


The beauty of the system is that, for example, instead of having to split resource storage across multiple houses, you could have it all in one house in easy reach. You could actually decorate a house as well as store items in it! You could have a guild without having to dedicate almost an entire account worth of lots to it.


And the map would be alot less cluttered with houses than it is.


I love this idea, its almost distracted me from the vendor nerf!



Adrianna
v Grace Industries v
-3171 5939 Tranquility Naboo
Imperial Faction Sales
Rebel Faction Sales
Joslo
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:25 am
#20

Get rid of junk loot if you are having database issues



Joslo Kesunn - Famous Smuggler Board Troll
Master Rifleman, Master Fencer, TKA 4/0/0/4
http://intrepid.galaxyforums.com/
Neilla
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:54 am
#21

I agree 100% with the idea of allowing all items to crate up to 1000. That would greatly simplify my life and greatly reduce the amount of database traffic.

If this was *only* a database issue, this would be a great fix and should be relatively simple.

A second fix, which is probably more work, and which would make just about EVERYONE happy: Allow vendors to break apart crates. I could put up a crate of 100 candles instead of 20 individual candles plus 8 crates of 10 candles each. That's about a factor of nearly 30 on database size. In addition, it greatly speeds up the process of purchasing crafted goods, since you no longer need to scroll through dozens of identical items.

What if this is *not* a database issue, but something else? You sometimes hear the Devs complaining about monopolies, in which a relatively small number of crafters dominate the market for armor or weapons on a server.

The devs may think that this is a solution to the 'monopoly problem'. If so, they GREATLY underestimate the determination and resourcefulness of these people. You'll make life more difficult for them and force them to spend their time dealing with tedious vendor management, and you may harass them to the point where they leave the game, but you won't stop them this way.

I don't see a lot of people who are screaming to dismantle these 'monopolies.' Certainly the 'anit-monopoly' faction(if it even exists) isn't making thousands of posts. It would be profoundly foolish to make the vast majority of crafters AND their customers unhappy in a vain attempt to solve a problem that very few players are even mildly concerned with.

Maybe the devs are concerned with people using vendors to horde huge quantities of goods. Again, the solution won't work. People who want to horde stuff will simply do cross-server lot trades and set up scads of factories, which will hurt server performance MUCH more than the current vendor exploit.

Again, it would be profoundly foolish to make the vast majority of crafters AND their customers unhappy in a vain attempt to solve a problem that is ONLY of concern to SOE.



-------------------------------------------------
Neilla Bastune, Mayor of Baishi
Master Architect and CEO of Baishi Heavy Industries
Chek
Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:26 am
#22




Jagged-F3l wrote:

You have to understand that making these "simple" changes would mean changing fundamental database schemes. It's not an easy task to change a database scheme, and there are always scalability issues that need to be explored with every change.






You made a blanket statement above. It's not necessarily true that the schema would need to change or scalability would be a huge factor. See my post on the technical database issues.

You made a blanket statement above. It's not necessarily true that the schema would need to change or scalability would be a huge factor. See my post on the technical database issues.




Myralana
Master Spy
Outer Limits Emporium
Theed, Naboo (-4987 5323)
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