Merchant Archive

Thread: Galaxy Search Alternative

Meplorium
Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:53 am
#14

Remote buying obviously has too many problems and is really just not needed. It should be dropped altogether.



- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
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Tirranus
Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:57 pm
#15






Meplorium wrote:

The Devs don't feel that they are wrong and letting them know that won't get your ideas put forward. They have egos and feelings too.




I believe the purpose of these forums is to give the devs our opinions on the game. My opinions on player cities vs. NPC cities are incompatibale with those of the dev team (or at least the results of thier work.) I feel no need to sugar coat this incomatibility, you should have seen some of the rants I had in lateBetawhen they first cut cities for release and thus caused this problem.




EnigmaBSc wrote:





Tirranus wrote:


  • Items listed for a city can be bought from the terminal, but must be picked up at the vendor.



Overall a very good suggestion, but I still see problems with letting people purchase directly:


  1. The Evil-Merchant Scenario: ...
  2. The Lame-Griefer Scenario: ...
  3. The Instant-Delivery-With-No-Instant-Delivery Scenario: ...






And Fidgiter wrote:
A concern of mine was the "Buywhile Banned" threat and this elimites that. However, it doesn't address the "Buy THEN Banned" threat. ie: someone buys an item, the merchant recognizes the name and for some reason has a beef with him/her, the merchant then bans the person from the shop before they have a chance to make the pickup. People will always find a way to grief and while no system is perfect there are some systems which present too great an opportunity.





  • If a player is banned form a house, they cannot see items on the terminal. If they have already bought items, they will be delivered upon attempting to walk in the door.




  • Fidgiter wrote:

    I disagree here as having it as you suggested would make MASTER MERCHANT useless. Let's face the facts here, a Novice Armorsmith can't compete with a Master Armorsmith and they shouldn't be able too. Being the MASTER in a profession should provide a competative edge. For this reason the Master Merchant should have the galactic market edge.



    I believe a master merchant should have an edge, but that people shouldn't have to say "If I'm not going to master it, I might as well not do it at all."




    Fidgiter wrote:
    A jack-of-trades but master-of-none. If someone chooses to spread themselves thin on the skill points that is a choice they make. If they are truely dedicated to the commercial game they should be more effective than someone who spreads themselves thin.




    I would actually like to see non-master crafters have more value. I don't think they should be equal to masters, but there should be useful stuff there that they can do. Right now the only craftign profession that you can make a reasonable living at without being a master is Architect. Tailor can make a limited selection below master, but even at 4/4/4/4 it's not half what master is.




    Fidgiter wrote:
    This being said I do not see Planetary Merchant Terminal registration as being usless at all. The search size of the galactic list could be unbearable and there will people who will filter this by choosing to look at Plantary or City listings actually *gasp* travelling a bit in their shopping pursuits.




    I am coming at this from the perspective of someone who has a shop on Rori and hates the design that creates a concentric ring of shops around major NPC cities. I could see some people doing planetary searches, but rarely on planets not in the less populous ones. I think there should be less incentive to set up shop in already overpopluated places, not more.




    Meplorium wrote:
    Delivery idea is a CS nightmare. What if the person gets the item but won't return it? What if their computer fries while trying to return an item and they never bother to come back to the game? What if no onetakesthat delievery mission?What if the merchant moves the vendor in the time it takes for that delievery mission to be completed?



    These questions have all been answered before. The mission taker never gets an item, just a mission to go to terminal X, then terminal Y. The mission times out after Z time (as set by the mission placer.) The mission placer gives up on delivery and picks up the item themselves (with a loss of the mission fee.) I believe that vendors cannot currently be deleted if they have items pending pickup, but either way make it the same as now.


    Still though, how many people ever take the delivery missions currently in the game? I don't see anyone except the super rich using this option because without a high fee, nobody will want to do FedEx missions.




    Tyr Tirranus
    High Chancellor of the Antillian Resistance
    Governor of Antillia, Rori (Bloodfin)
    CEO of TyrCo Industries
    My Current Crusades: Category Revamp | Galaxy Search Alternative | Stop Static Loot Drops
    LaurnaRose
    Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:55 pm
    #16

    idea the hubby had concerning delivery ...



    • Allow the merchant to decide if they will let their items be deliverable or not. This would be a setting available on the vendor, not per item, and would only become available in AdIV.



    • Allow the merchant to decide if they want delivery charge to be a percentage or a flat per item fee.



    • Whether or not an item is deliverable would not be displayed while purchasing an item.



    • If an item is deliverable, a system box would pop up stating "This item may be delivered to you directly for XXX credits. Do you wish to have this item delivered to you? Then a simple "Yes" "No" click option.



    • If the customer chooses to have an item delivered, rather than it being placed directly into their inventory (there may be an issue with inventory space at time of purchase) it would be sent via email. The email would have the wp of the vendor it was purchased fromand all the other goodie info that is sent with sales emails, along with an image of the item or simply just "Package" ect that can be saved as well. Choosing to "save attachment" would then place the item in the inventory. Problem with this is the possiblity of abuse ... someone buying 1000 items and keeping them in email form only saving them as needed ect.

    However my personal opinion is either do not allow delivery, or a delivery mission system. But preferably no delivery. I want ppl to actually have to come to my shop if they are my customers, not some lacky they are sending across the galaxy as a gopher who has no interest in my wares.



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    LazyAmy
    Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:13 am
    #17






    Meplorium wrote:

    Remote buying obviously has too many problems and is really just not needed. It should be dropped altogether.







    Totally disagree 110%.


    I think we not only need a way for merchants to have thier vendors searched remotly I think this can also add in actual player granted missions.


    To make it simple, just add Pleyer City Bazaar Terminals that merchants can register thier vendors with if they are within city limits. These bazaars would be searchable from any other Bazaar (Including the ones in NPC cities).


    If you purchase an Item you then have 2 choices to retrieve it.


    1. Go to the Bazaar that vendor is registered on and retrieve it.


    2. Set up a Delivery mission from the Bazaar it is on to any other Bazaar (Where you will pick it up after the mission is complete) You then decide how much you will pay to have the item delivered and how much time you will give the person taking the mission to deliver it. Then simply have every Bazaar have a new Tab. Delivery Missions. Players then take this mission and it works like a regular delivery mission only with a time limit. When it's done the Item is then on the destination Bazaar and the purchaser can go get it. If the time limit runs out the mission is failed and goes back for someone else to take.


    This allows people to stay in thier city and make purchases and then have the product delivered to thier city. This also saves folk from having to visit dozens and sometimes hundreds of empty vendors before finding the item they seek.


    -LA




    LazyAmy Indigo
    Resource Merchant, Thorn in the Imperial backside.
    Owner/operator of The Lazy AT-AT Cantina
    Proud member of The Crecent Order (TCO) Resource Division
    Chilastra Galaxy
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    CNevyn
    Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:15 am
    #18

    I'm new to the merchants forum, and just lightly skimming ATM, (work soon)


    Just had to say this one caught me off guard this morning..





    Don't send me email when I manually cancel a sale or buy an item that was offered to my vendor. I know I did, I was there.





    I bluddy love this one, and completely agree.



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    Fidgiter
    Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:34 am
    #19






    Tirranus wrote:




    I am coming at this from the perspective of someone who has a shop on Rori and hates the design that creates a concentric ring of shops around major NPC cities. I could see some people doing planetary searches, but rarely on planets not in the less populous ones. I think there should be less incentive to set up shop in already overpopluated places, not more.




    So if a person is a dabbler on a backwater world they should be able to compete with a master on a high traffic world? I don't buy it for a second. There are alot of merchants who run vendors on multiple worlds to capture the traffic bringing convenience to their customers and success to their business. Success without effort is boring and would discourage the type of commerce that brings the scant immersion that exists in the game.


    Location is critical to success in business. You need to have the right product in the right place with the right prices to succeed. Only a marketing genious can create a demand where one didn't exist before and that is the domain of the Master. A Master who draws people to that out of the way community then draws business to the others who also do business in that area. Cooperation is another extremely valuable key to success.




    Mayor Feliz, RSO Commanding Officer
    FidgitCo Construction, Droid and Starships
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    Meplorium
    Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:27 pm
    #20

    Those 'vendor malls' where a premier crafter is surrounded by, well lesser crafters, that get added business because they are near the big guy is part of the RP eliment in this game. Another reason remote buying is not wanted.


    The topic of remote buying is pretty much a dead horse. The majority of crafters/merchants spoke out against remote buying and delievery. They pulled that feature right before they pulled the whole thing. There are only a couple of people in this tread really promoting it. It is something that just isn't wanted.



    - Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
    Drop Off Vendor: Buffy in the Bacta Tank, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine. -6931 4819
    Visit the commerce district, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine.
    The Armored Wookiee - Kashyyykian Armor Specialist
    The Bacta Tank - Food, Drink and Stims
    Grimy Shack - Tools, Vehicles and Ships
    Special Orders Welcome, Send Mail.
    LazyAmy
    Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:00 pm
    #21






    Meplorium wrote:

    I totally disagree 120%.


    It creates too many grief type problems. It is widely not wanted by many merchants for several reasons including PoS purchances, shop upkeep and roleplaying. I want people to come to my store and view my vendor. I do have several shops spread throughout the galaxy for customer convience so it isn't like I want to create more work for my customer, but I do want them to find things they didn't know they wanted.


    Delivery idea is a CS nightmare. What if the person gets the item but won't return it? What if their computer fries while trying to return an item and they never bother to come back to the game? What if no onetakesthat delievery mission?What if the merchant moves the vendor in the time it takes for that delievery mission to be completed?


    If a system that has too many 'what ifs' it isn't a good system even if the underlying idea is good. Just like remote buying has too many 'what ifs'.The ideaneeds to be thrown out as it isn't needed and there are too many 'what ifs' that in the long run will make something that isn't wanted by all too much of a problem.


    I do agree with the searches though. They are needed and they only 'what ifs' is in how the UI is used, which can be solved by a UI update, ie doable. The social engineering problems with the delieveries or even remote buying have make them to tricky.







    Well first of all I don't see how a system like this can be used to grief someone.


    If someone takes the delivery mission they don't get to carry the item. They get a mission. They never see what it is they are delivering. If no one takes the mission, offer up more money or go get the item yourself. If the vendor is moved after you take the mission it's irrelevant. When the item is purchased it it gone from the vendor it came from and placed on the city bazaar that vendor was registered from and needs to be picked up there. Once the mission is taken the item is in escro until either it's delivered or the mission fails. In which case the item goes back to the bazaar. If some unscrupulous mayor destroyes a citybazaar then any pending items on that bazaar to the nearest NPC city bazaar.


    For merchants that want people to see thier vendors. The planetary Ad campaign still works for this. Just don't place your vendor on the City Bazaar.


    As for finding things they didn't know they wanted, they still can. Now they will also be able to do the same with a much larger choice. They just won't have to visit potentially hundreds of empty vendors held open by a single 9 billion credit item.


    The only people truly adverse to this system are ones who want to be able to overcharge thier customers and fear compeating in a free market.


    -LA




    LazyAmy Indigo
    Resource Merchant, Thorn in the Imperial backside.
    Owner/operator of The Lazy AT-AT Cantina
    Proud member of The Crecent Order (TCO) Resource Division
    Chilastra Galaxy
    Talus
    -2400 x -2200
    PvP+, Combat+, RP+
    Meplorium
    Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:42 pm
    #22

    I would rather see the system most crafters/merchants asked for, i.e. no remote buying. Not that your system doesn't have merits, it is however very complicated and I can think of a lot of things I rather see first before this type of system. The programing time is simply better spent else where.



    - Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
    Drop Off Vendor: Buffy in the Bacta Tank, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine. -6931 4819
    Visit the commerce district, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine.
    The Armored Wookiee - Kashyyykian Armor Specialist
    The Bacta Tank - Food, Drink and Stims
    Grimy Shack - Tools, Vehicles and Ships
    Special Orders Welcome, Send Mail.
    Tirranus
    Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:30 pm
    #23




    Fidgiter wrote:
    So if a person is a dabbler on a backwater world they should be able to compete with a master on a high traffic world? I don't buy it for a second. There are alot of merchants who run vendors on multiple worlds to capture the traffic bringing convenience to their customers and success to their business. Success without effort is boring and would discourage the type of commerce that brings the scant immersion that exists in the game.

    Location is critical to success in business. You need to have the right product in the right place with the right prices to succeed. Only a marketing genious can create a demand where one didn't exist before and that is the domain of the Master. A Master who draws people to that out of the way community then draws business to the others who also do business in that area. Cooperation is another extremely valuable key to success.




    I don't buy it either. But it's not a matter of being able to compete, it's a amatter of being able to exist. It also depends if you believe that the rings of shops around major cities are a bad thing. I think it's a flaw that goes back to the day of release not having PC cities to build businesses around and is now irreversible, but at least should not be encouraged further.


    I definately believe that a Master Merchant (or any profession) should have an edge, but I don't believe in making anything less than Mastera joke. Let the Masters be the only ones who can use the advertising terminals in NPC cities. Let the Masters have lower maintenance on all Merchant activities. Let the Masters have a few extra days of in-stock time. Just don't take away the basic needs of a merchant from those who are not Masters.






    LazyAmy wrote:

    The only people truly adverse to this system are ones who want to be able to overcharge thier customers and fear compeating in a free market.



    You could say the same thing about Wal Mart, but it all depends on your perspective. It removes many elements of actually running a good business from the equation.





    Tyr Tirranus
    High Chancellor of the Antillian Resistance
    Governor of Antillia, Rori (Bloodfin)
    CEO of TyrCo Industries
    My Current Crusades: Category Revamp | Galaxy Search Alternative | Stop Static Loot Drops
    Khristen
    Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:15 pm
    #24

    Random thought: Instead of remote buying, perhaps you could put a "hold" on an item found in a galaxy search. The hold is only good for say, five minutes, and you can't put a hold on more than one item at a time (or more than once on the same item). This way a player can be relatively assured that the item they want will still be there after they travel to the vendor, but prevents a merchant having one player halt their business by placing a hold on every single item on their vendor ad nauseum.


    Overall, though, the suggestions put forth in the original post are wonderful. I would also add that we need a revamp of the way categories are displayed, getting rid of dead weight and make factory crates show in the category the item in the crate is.




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    AdoptedThug31
    Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:10 am
    #25

    I think we have forgotten one important aspect of the galactic vendor listing, and that is the competition among merchants. For example, I always have trouble figuring out how many cpu i should sell my resources for. Instead of going out and looking at a bunch of different vendors to get an idea, I generally default at 7 cpu, I could be ripping people off or getting ripped off. This will also encourage competitive prices. We all know that competition aids the consumer. If there is competition then prices go down. Why would I buy one thing when I can look right below it and see the same thing for 100k less. This could go to hurt player city malls because players would much rather have whatever is cheaper. Competition is good for the consumer, but bad for the merchant. This aids newbie players cus it will allow them to get established in the game. For veteran merchants who have a lot of expenses, it can hurt them. I think the whole idea of nerfing the solo groups was to help out the economy and allow newbie players to get established, that way they wont have to pay 100k for weapons items that they need for their profs.



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    Fidgiter
    Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:49 am
    #26






    AdoptedThug31 wrote:

    I think we have forgotten one important aspect of the galactic vendor listing, and that is the competition among merchants. For example, I always have trouble figuring out how many cpu i should sell my resources for. Instead of going out and looking at a bunch of different vendors to get an idea, I generally default at 7 cpu, I could be ripping people off or getting ripped off.



    I ask my friends and associates to watch prices as they go about their business in the galaxy. The report back what the competition sells their product for and I adjust my pricing on occasion to remain competative. Ultimately the frugal shopper who finds the bargain passes the word and those places with high static prices loose sales to the point they go out of business or are content to have lower volume with the higher return per item.


    If there was a Master Merchant ability to browse the galaxy so they could research the competition as a guide to assist them in their pricing I think I could live with it. That is very different than everyone being able to do it. Until such a thing happens I'll do it the ol'fashioned way and set my prices based on scouts and volume of business.



    Mayor Feliz, RSO Commanding Officer
    FidgitCo Construction, Droid and Starships
    Furnishing the Galaxy since September 2003
    Dune Retreat Mall, Tatooine
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