Merchant Archive
Thread: What is it with Artisans / Crafters ?
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I have NO problems with crafters wanting to be independant and sell their own wares. But by all means they need tp spend the skill points to do it, just like the rest of us.
BUT! I also think the per-tick merchant XP should be removed. There are far too many "pseudo" merchants out there that reached half way up the master tree by doing nothing more then dropping vendors behind locked doors and waiting for the XP to roll in.
We talk about making the Merchant class worth something. Let's also make it require some effort, and thereby gain more intrinsic value as well.
KruppeRift wrote:
I am a casual gamer, who plays 3 nights a week for 10 hours.
Sorry... Readas "I am a casual gamer, who plays 3 nights a week for 10 hours in total."
I don't have the perfect solution to this. Even if I did, the odds of it being implemented are slim to none. We "as merchants on this board" are consistently begging for our class to be balanced and fixed (and VERY rightly so). But in that act of balancing, we've got to increase the "work" necessary to achieve those better skills and tools.
I use the term "work" liberally. Does this mean you should have to grind XP like crafters, or spend hours and hours online? No! Your vendors CAN work for you. But be creative about it.
Being completley honest I can tell you I spend about 8 hours a week of my TOTAL online time working with my merchant skills. Those 8 hours are spent advertising, searching for new suppliers, maintaining inventory, checking stock, ordering new supplies, redoing the displays in my shop, etc. etc.
My vendor sales on the other hand run 24x7. Perhaps tie the merchant XP more directly into vendor sales. Use a floating marker so that a single person can't load up his vendor with a thousand items and have his buddy buy them all for 1 cred a piece. It wouldn't be difficult at all for the vendor to only allow (X) number of sales to a single individual within (X) number of minutes from a sepcific vendor. (This is only an example written at 5am, so don't pick it apart too badly)
8 hours a week. I think that's WELL within the range of a casual player. Now before you look at my title, look back at me and call BS, remember again, my vendors run 24x7. I have over 3M credits worth of inventory spread across my 6 vendors, over 5M in my wharehouse, and I rotate through 500K - 1M credits of stock a day. I've got 2 "employee players" who help maintain my merchandise and inventory.
I have a hard time finding suppliers who can meet my demands, soI have to turn to multiple suppliers. How many merchants do you know that ask for DX2s by the 50 crate?
I'm not Uber, I'm not special. I put in a lot of hardwork initially, and built a smart and solid foundation around a moduler theme. I have a solid reputation, decent (but not the cheapest) prices, and a great location. Pure intertia keeps it running, and I only have to apply a little spin to the wheel now and again to keep the whole machine turning.
I've had other novice Merchants ask me, "How did you get started?" My answer is the same every time.
"With the same 250 credits you did."
That's my whole point. In the Merchant profession a Casual gamer can advance *almost* as quickly as a full time gamer.. XP gain is not linked to being a sucsessful merchant. Now if you could find a way to link XP to numbers of sales per hour, or numbers of diverse customers, then that would be more realistic.
I give you myself as an example. I logged on the other night with 29,650 MXP - and was desperate to get Advertising 3.. There was absolutely NOTHING i could do to generate those extra 350 MXP to achieve this.. I had to waut 3 hours for that XP to arrive..
The whole sucsess of the profession is based around how the player acts IN GAME to achieve their goals of setting up a good supply chain, and customer base. (and sucsess in this way is in no way linked to XP gain.) Merchants are getting rewarded just for being merchants - not for being GOOD merchants.
NONE of the skills available to the merchant help to achieve this. - There all just Fluff on top of the core of what a merchant is - Yes I like having pretty NPC vendors dressed up in smart clothes - But does this help me sell anything - no not a bit.. It's all fluff.. Efficiency & Management is the only usefull skills out of the lot of them, and they're pretty weak.
You are never ever going to convince people they don't have a right to sell their own produce.
Anything that tries to hamstring anyone from selling their own product is going to be met with incredibly fierce resistance - and I say this as someone that will be training master merchant when I log on.
Whether or not merchant as a seperate profession was ever a good idea - well, it's really too late now for that one. Believe me, it was done more as a point spending mechanism than as a class, just look at it. It's thin cause there is only so many really useful things you can put in it and NOT hamstring anyone that doesn't have it from their inalienable right to sell their own goods.
The key to making merchant a true 'profession' isn't in gutting anyone else's ability to sell, it's by increasing the tools given to those that have invested points in it.
There are only 3 areas that merchants can excel in. Visibility, advertising and cost.
Wire3k wrote:
You are never ever going to convince people they don't have a right to sell their own produce.
Anything that tries to hamstring anyone from selling their own product is going to be met with incredibly fierce resistance - and I say this as someone that will be training master merchant when I log on.
That's the last thing I want - If Joe Bloggs Crafter wants to sit in the Keren Bank shouting he has guns for sale on his vendor at loc Blah,Blah then good luck to him.
All I want is tools to make Merchants alot better at getting goods in front of peoples noses (and therefore give the profession an advantage over the casual crafter/seller). Give me vendor listings on the planetary Bazaar, Give me a hugeadvantage cost wise running a vendor over a Business 3 artisan, Give me ways to move goods around the galaxy easier, give me ways for people to see what I am selling without having to run the risk of travelling to my shop only to find it empty. GIVE ME TOOLS I CAN USE -
Take back dressing up my vendors - If I wanted to play dressing up I'd go and visit a play school...
Take back your poxy 4 credit discount on the bazaar I shouldnt have to use..
I am a Merchant on Radiant on Naboo... But I am also a Chef and a Master Artisan...
Now my prefered title is Novice Chef... If they would make it so I could be searchable by all my skills somehow that would be wonderful. I am always looking for suppliers for things to sell... But until I get Advertising III (which will hopefully be done today) it is extremely hard to get my name out there... I have a few people who know me and I send my Shop WP's to everyone I meet... I get alot of tells due to being a chef of people asking for food and stuff or just saying amazing to see a chef... So my store is getting out there... I also agree they should put the Bulky Terminal at Bus IV and put a reduced Bazaar fee at Bus III... heck maybe the other reduced Bazaar fee at Bus II... and maybe get us a more reduced Maintance/Vendor fees in our Effiancy row...
Also they should propably leave the Maintance fee charges for Bulky the way they are... Make them EXPENSIVE to run as a Business/Artisan... but have them drastically cut as a Merchant... Maybe for each lvl of Effiancy we get a 10% reduction in cost... I dunno... I already said more then I thought I would... but those are my ideas... Wish they would bring back word of mouth... or billboards..
Perhaps you should check before you make a comment about someone being only Business 3. I have Merchant skill including mastering one of the branches and nearly two of the others. Rather a waste given how broken this stuff functions.
And maybe you have the wrong idea about what SWG merchants should be. Have advantages on a trading system? Certainly. Exclusive right to it? Absolutely not. Merchants are suppose to make it convient for buyers to obtain things. That means owning houses and vendors several planets and buying items on planets were they are in supply and selling them on planets where they are in demand. Better yet, going in with several merchants and maintaining malls on as many planets as you can with as many vendors as you can pack into a building. Right now that means sharing admin rights on all the buildings with all the merchants who will be placing vendors there. In short, your job is to move goods between planets for a profit and make it possible for buyers to find everything they need under one roof. Your the retailers of SWG.
Now how exactly do you think you will figure out where the supply and demand for any one item is at on the different planets? You think you can manage it all by yourself taking a tour of every house on every planet checking every vendor, 90% of which are empty? And you want the trading terminals I proposed to be merchant exclusive? You'd just be shooting yourself in the foot.
The artisian has just enough right now. the clunker vendor and a few other perks. Everything else should go to merchant, and stay there.
You want the stuff Merchant has? Take the skills to get them, don't go complaining on the boards, that you don't have the uber-skills, when you're in starter profession.
Arden, no matter how you present your idea, you will see veyr little support for it in the Merchant forum. I've worked hard to earn my title of Master Merchant, and I look forward to skill corrections and readdressed balance issues when the occurr.
I, and many of my fellow Merchants, do not want to see obvious Merchant class benefits going into a skill line that takes no work or dedication. All the arguements you present only server to show more and more that this idea belongs deep within the Merchant class. If Artisans want to sell their good, they should work for it just like the rest of us. And in my opinion, even harder, as they haven't devoted the time or skill points for unique benefits.
Kruppe, did you read my suggestions today? They made being a master merchant quite advantageous (paying 10% of the sales "tax" that a Business 3 person would for selling an item).
Personally, I think Merchants should have everything (except one vendor in Business 3 or 4) exclusively.
I don't want all of the benefits of Merchant ... I want the way vendors bill to be changed for everyone.
I'd like to see vendors charge 1cr/item for maintenance for everyone. And, they should also chargea use tax when an item sells. For someone like myself ("just" a Master Artisan, DE, Arch), I'd pay 10% use tax. A Master Merchant would pay 1%. The Efficiency line would be how a Merchant worked up to that.
Personally, I don't see where you get the impression that Artisans/Crafters want all of the same benefits that you receive (the few that there are). I want to see my vendor become something more reasonable in terms of cost. I do not believe that it is reasonable to charge 1% of the total value per maintenance period (30 minutes real time). This prevents big ticket items being on vendors ... or large varieties of items on vendors.
The change I propose would benefit EVERYONE with a vendor, not just artisans. In fact, as proposed, Merchants would do even better with it than Artisans because you would pay less of a sales tax when an item sold. Under my proposal, if I were to sell a 30kCr Advanced Surgical Droid, I'd pay 3kCr tax. A Master Merchant would pay 300cr.
And, I want to see your class fully fleshed out. I haven't been here for the discussions. But, really, the thing to do is fix your class ... not nerf others. Asa Droid Engineer, I can tell you how hard it hurts to be nerfed (more than once).
So, please, direct your attention at fixing your class ... not nerfing everyone else. We're all in the same boat here. We just don't know it.
Oh, and Kruppe ... I don't want all of the benefits of the Merchant class. I haven't earned it. Just like I don't want you making droids if you haven't earned it. It's all about fairness.
I just want my one vendor. I'm happy with that.
Drywulf said:
I'm -not- against anyone selling their own whares at all. They can stand around in the bank or starport and shout to their hearts content. BUT, to gain access to special tools and skills they should be required to spend points in the Merchant tree.
Huh? Do you mean that if we aren't Merchants, we shouldn't even haveone vendor? I really hope that's not what you meant.
This game is supposed to be at least somewhat friendly to the casual gamer.