Merchant Archive

ed

First off, I want to at least thank you for asking for our input on this critical issue. It is a major issue that many players,including myself, have strong opinions.

Second, thatbeing said, I am in strong opposition to the proposed feebased-on-the-sell-price system you have announced. Isupport the Flat Fee + Sales Tax solution that has been outlined already.My reasons fall in line with what has already been said so I will move on to my thirdpoint.

You state that you need more money sinks, so I am going to give you suggestions. Since the vendor maintainance thing is directly affecting merchants, you obviously want some suggestions for merchant money sinks. So I will limit my proposals to the merchant profession (though there are a ton of other so-called money sinks that you could be placing in other aspects of the game, in my opinion). I would rather you didn't have to implement more money sinks, but since you guys are bent on it being a necessity, here are some alternative money sinks that you could implement in addition to a reasonable flat fee on vendors.

My proposal is to make the merchanting profession more like the combat classes where you have certifications. The tree that immediately comes to mind is advertising. (Yes, I knowadvertising doesn't work properly, but for the sake of discussion let's assume it is fixed ok?) Why does it not cost money to advertise? This is such an obvious money sink. Make each level of advertising like a certification. For example, Advertising 3 gives you the ABILITY to advertise on the world map. Whether or not you use it is your choice, but if you want to use it then you pay a fee to list your "ad" to advertise your vendor on the world map for a period of time. A flat fee for a period of time. This would be analogous to the marksman getting the certification for the FWG5 pistol. He doesn't have to use the FWG5 pistol, but if he does, then he has to buy one.

Hiring could also be a money sink. As you move up the hiring tree, you gain access to new and interesting types of vendors. Why do all the vendor have to cost the same? If you want an exotic vendor, then make it so that vendor costs a little more in flat fee maintenance per day. You could also revamp the efficiency tree so that the more efficiency skill you have, the less vendors cost/day. Some would argue that it unfairly discourages the use of those vendors. To that I say, look at the exotic vendors as a luxury item. You don't need that exotic vendor, but if you want him, then you will pay more.

These ideas give the player a choice in whether they want to use the money sink or not, just as we will eventually be given the choice of what items we want to insure or not. If a merchant is successful then he/she will have the money to use the advanced skills. Doesn't it make sense that advertising should cost credits?

Thank for listenin'

Siekierah

Chilastra

ed

Without a doubt I would say charge a fee for each sale...say 5 or 10% so that if I sold a 10,000 credit gun, i would get charged 500-1000 credits.

If you do a base maintenance fee, this only hurts the up and coming merchants who don't have sales, but are working on getting them. I know that it would be a lot more difficult to have to set up a shop paying 3200 credits a day w/ 100K worth of stuff on my vendor.

Just charge commission...IMHO that is the best way.

ed

ed.

Here's the upsetting truth for all you Devs, as well as some people here on the forums.

The market HAS been already set.

I do believe that there are several ways to work around the excessive credits flow out there, but this proposed merchant maintenance system will NOT work since there is a work around that all merchants can use. This work around is e-mail and placing your products for viewingand examination within their house.

My idea will increase the cost of player made items not because of any other reason other than crafters will have an option to rid himself of that item for a pre-set price. So, instead of the generic nonsense items that are requested by those missions handed out by the Artisan Mission Terminal, require the player to craft and hand in a player crafted item. Where you can have an affect on the market comes next. If you hand out missions from the Artisan mission terminal for example where the reward is 20k for a Laser Rifle, what Weaponsmith in his right mind is going to sell it for 8k, 10k, or maybe even 12k? Now of course this is going to put a lot of money into the pockets of the crafters and I haven't thought that far ahead... hehe, but perhaps this guaranteed income from crafting items that doesn't even have to be top quality and which are handed in for mission rewards can be offset by maintenance increases elsewhere such as in harvesters and in fixed rates for the vendors (remember the proposed system can be easily work arounded with e-mail, so fixed rates do seem to be the better choice).

edBWAHAHAHA...um I filled business and am now filling merchant why? Forget it. I'll sell on the spot at cantinas and on the bazaar. I'll use those points to get some combat skills so I don't have to run from EVERY mob that has camped my vendors, or to join the GCW. Please, spare me the grief, being a tailor in a "blind" galaxy is cost enough. Have droid/clothes crafting module, will travel..

ed

I'm afraid that I haven't had a chance to read all the responses here, but I wanted to agree wholeheartedly withthree things:

Yes, the market has already been set. Scylla's Tatooine, where I'm based, has been working very stably (from a clothing/architectural/weaponsmith perspective, as far as I've seen) for weeks and weeks. Everyone knows what they can expect to pay for packs, dusters, and so on -- whether they buy from me or someone else. People generally know what they can expect to be paying for bulk resources. If I had to lift my prices tomorrow to cover my vendor fees, I woud lose business; cashwould stay in the pockets of the combat and entertainer professions that I cater to. Things have already become very well established.

Secondly: as Decadre has said, the vendor issue can be worked around, which is precisely what I've been planning for, knowing very well that this 1 credit issue would be resolved eventually. My house is a showroom, I take custom orders almost exclusively, and my vendor remains stocked with only my cheapest items. It's an odd way to do business but, particularly for someone just starting out on this line of work, it's certainly the most financially feasible. (I don't need another money sink; I'm paying out tens of thousands a day, and making enough to cover that, with a small percentage on top as profit -- and by small, I mean perhaps another 10K or so ...the equivalent of a few delivery missions)

Thirdly: I would love, would wholeheartedly support, the use of a sales tax on vendor-owners instead of the proposed fees. I see the risk in this: folks using the vendor as a 'storeroom' of sorts. But really, this makes perfect sense, and would function as a money-sink for people like me -- with this in place, I could put high-cost items on my vendor, ones that I know will sell well, and not be stuck with thousands in fees if they take a day longer than I'd expected to do so. Please, please, consider this alternative.

ed

This maintenance per item listed is BS. It should be based on a % of total sale when the sale is finalized. Why should I be charged for something that sits on the vendor? BTW: with the CURRENT DROID SYSTEM VENDORS ARE OF NO USE TO ARCHITECTS other than a few furniture items.

YOU REALLY CANT LIST A LARGE HOME ON A VENDOR AT 32k per week.

ed

the thing that concerns me is these maintence fees that burn when your not around are definatly keeping me from enjoying the same amenities as the larger guilds

with all these maintence fees a solo player spends more and more time babysitting and feeding the maintence god instead of playing the game and exploring

I would like to see more point of sale taxes instead and keep the maitence fees low because players do have real lives and sometimes have work or go on vacation or even go to the hospital it would be a sad thing if when they came back all their structures are gone

make food and drink a requirement just have idealistic penalties like loose up to 100 stat points for starvation and 100 points for dehydration easily cured then with a tax on venders you will

you could add heat and cold to the list as well no more arctic bikinis

food should have a social value so drinking and eating in bars or at dinner parties has some meaning

edi know you devs really really would prefer to have vendor miantenance tied to the prices of listed items cos that prevents people storing small time stuff at rreally high prices as a method of item storage... however, the problem then is that this method make it utterly prohibitive for the genuine merchant or artisan to use them for the intended purpose anyway, at least with the current formulas im seeing floating around...

im a non-master tailor and as a tailor i like to stock my vendors with an array of items in varying colours so that customers at least have half a chance to buy something that suits their needs that isnt one of a dozen black gunmans dusters.

there really really needs to be some other method that prevents people from using vendors as merely storage that doesnt result in genuine merchants being nerfed out of existence.

I currently turn a suitable but comparitively small profit from my clothing sales, however i get satisfied customers who like my stock and give me good feedback which incrases my and their net enjoyment and also allows me to compete with the master tailors out there who more often than not seem to be all that potential customers ever try to seek out initially.

If/when these maintenance costs come in the efficiency tree will, by necessity, need to give VERY hefty benefits to maintenace charges, but even that wont be a best solution cos ideally the charges has best not be that bad to begin with otherwise you'll price anyone but the incredibly independently wealthy out of the profession.
Especially tailors. I mean it's not like all my items even sell within 7 days. But i might have a gold hued wookie ensemble on my vendor for over a week but then the next week someone comes in andd might buy it all out. Me stocking these items pays off, but i can tell you that with these kinds of fees that i will have made a loss on providing that option...
Okay so maybe i should just stock black cos it sells faster. But really, what good is having an array of wearables and colours if everyone just is a clone of each other anyway, at last if people can see the alternate items in the vendor they can choose to try something different, i know i cant run a decent showroom anymore since my house cant store everything i need to run the **edit** business im trying to run.

now im rambling... i agree we need to pay maintenance on our vendors and it outta be enough that the efficiency tree can matter. But it cant be so prohibitive that it's more profitable for me to take my skilled tailor out to do delivery missions than it is to have a well stocked vendor or 3 in my home with an array of stock items...

Another thing, when the fees DO go in, regardless of the chosen model, please be sure to give us more than 24 hours notice.

edI am almost a master merchant... and I have basically stopped selling my resources through vendors.

Delivering resources by hand, arranging special deals, and selling on the bazaar are FAR BETTER methods of selling items than anything the merchant profession gives us.

It is a darn shame. This profession is its own worst enemy.

ed

Well the proposed meathod would in fact be horrible to me. I use one of my venders as a gallery with all the items I make on it so people can view them. They are priced not to sell so that they will always be available to see. Why couldnt it be based upon a percentage of sales or just a set fee each day like a house. The perposed idea will put players back into the market of selling by hand instead of using venders or extreamly limit the amount one will actually put on them. I know if it works out like proposed ill drop down to one vender and only put items on it for people to buy so they wont have to pay bank fees. The ecomomy is too inflated by the ones earning it because money is too easy to come by for fighters not because there are not enough money sinks. The perposed method will just put the merchant out of business which I imagine is already an impossible profession to have unless your also your own crafter. But I do know a couple people who soley sell others merchandise this would cripple them as inventory doesnt always move for everyone as fast as it does for others.

Me personally I have enough money to keep my vender stocked which just means more money for me. This will hurt the little guy more then me all day long. People will see me as uber because my venders will always be stocked and thus create more revenue for me... while the little guy struggles to keep a few items on his vender or it just drives the prices down for things which in turn decreases the money sinks in the game.

Pleas think through all the effects... the only way to tighten the economy is to have some money sinks that are fun to use not a burden. Its not our fault the ecomomy was too loose to begin the game so why punish us for your own poor planning.

ed

Flat Fee: Good

% based on Items Sold: Reasonable

% based on Items Stocked: Horrible

Please do not discourage stocking vendors. It's nice as a consumer to be able to browse and get immediate satisfaction instead of having to make orders all the time. If this goes through, this will become an economy of custom orders...why would anyone stock their vendors much?

Don't do it!

ed

I guess I will just add one constructive criticism of you logic devs.

If you *fix* npc vendors. I will close my vendors and no longer use them. I rarely even sell off them as it is and don't have the marginsto pay the maintenance scheme you have proposed. I imagine many others will as well. Like raising taxes you will drive people to find other ways to still sell. This will decrease the number of vendors being used and ultimately you will NOT achieve your money SINK.

Itsnow been more thanamonthsince launchand prices have been set in the economy. I can't just start adding the costs of a vendor onto my homes and furniture. I already lose enough business, because I wont sell a house for less than the resources make on the bazaar. Your a little too late to start tinkering this way.

I suggest that the majority of the money currently being held is like in real life concentrated around the Lucky few powergamers. Those should be your target not the casual gamer, because the casual gamer can't bleed something he doesn't have.

Go back to those dev's and tell them to figure out how to seperatethat 10% powerlevelerfrom their 60% of the total server wealth.

Thank you,

Shiner

ed

Please consider this my VERY strong plea in support of the commission plus nominal flat rate idea for vendor maintenance fees. I am not the first to suggest this, not even on this thread, but I want to add my voice to the call. It has been on Marque’s list a few times and no direct response has been given.

I do not mind a (reasonably) high cost on my vendors. I agree completely that the economy could use a few more sinks and the points of sale are logical places for them, however a rate per list price of inventory over time is a VERY bad way to do it. If I would have to pay (hypothetically) 10,000 a month to maintain 4 vendors at a rate per listed inventory over time system but would have to pay 15,000 to maintain the same vendors on a commission/sales tax system I would still vote for the later.

Basic micro-economic theory states that value is added to system at the moment of transaction; that is when to levy the cost for the most targeted controlling impact on the economy. Flat rate per list price over time punishes large inventory, high ticket, and multiple shop merchants heavily and does not target the moment of transaction, the very element that is inflating the economy.

As for real numbers? I am not in a position to make a clear judgment on this but something in the 15%-20% of transaction range, plus a simple 10-20 credit per hour or 45 minutes seems a fair solution pending some play testing. Among other things this would place the maintenance of the vendor + house + advertising in the range of the static monthly costs + sales tax over gross sales formula I use in the books for my own IRL small business.

Synter who plays Cyt

Owner of Clockwork Jabberwock Inc. and (GC) General Commodities

On Earth, Real World and Corillia, Sunrunner respectively