Merchant Archive
Thread: Sorry, Another rant about proposed changes
do you really think all people will start to run their business through the bazaar with that kind of limit? (esp. when they are crying about a 150 item limit per vendor?)
Yes. Yes I do. Because they're vendor got limited to 150. Because the bazaar is more places than their vendor. It's more convenient. more people look at it. Yes yes I do. One run of schematics is 40 crates. If you do two runs that's enough to stock the bazaar 3 times with five left over, assuming it flies right off the shelf.
correct me if i am wrong, but i think there is a limit on the items you can offer at the bazaar. (iirc it is 20 items)
do you really think all people will start to run their business through the bazaar with that kind of limit? (esp. when they are crying about a 150 item limit per vendor?)
BigAke, what I see happening is not that one person using the bazaar to sell fromis the problem.Your right with a 25 item limit, its not going to be a big deal at all. But when hundreds of different people start selling FWG5's for 6K, there will be no need to goto your local weaponsmith merchant to buyone anymore. Effectively your cutting out all the 3100-6000c sales from local merchants. I sell furniture andthe bulkof my sales are for master furniture that falls into that price range. There will be no need to seek out a furniture store now, when 99% of all of it is under 6K?? Thats the part that worries me.
~Prinethea
PrincessThea wrote:
Your right with a 25 item limit, its not going to be a big deal at all. But when hundreds of different people start selling FWG5's for 6K, there will be no need to goto your local weaponsmith merchant to buyone anymore. Effectively your cutting out all the 3100-6000c sales from local merchants. I sell furniture andthe bulkof my sales are for master furniture that falls into that price range. There will be no need to seek out a furniture store now, when 99% of all of it is under 6K?? Thats the part that worries me.
~Prinethea
Thank you for stating this so well. And this is the essence of the problem. The 3000cr bazaar cap was placed there to ensure that people would be forced to seek out local vendors for any big ticket item. It gives legitimacy to the merchant profession as well as busness3 artisans. Upping the bazaar cap to 6k will more than double the possible items, which will be sold on the bazaar.
I price all my non-elite pistols at 5k. This seems to be a pretty standard price for pistols on my server. Suddenly there will be no reason for people to come to my weaponshop to buy my pistols anymore. Especially since they can do all their shopping right outside of the starport.
The 3k price limit seems to be hurting crafters all by itself. Most pointedly, architects notice that statues and small houses sell for 3k -- which works out to 1 cpu for statues and < 1 cpu for the houses. This is because the holo-grinders sell their wares on the bazaar because they don't want to bother with vendors. A 6k limit will still under-price these high-resource items, but at least 2 cpu is closer to the mark.
Some players seem to have the impression that if other players can't sell their items for a high price (either higher on bazaar or in "exploit" vendors that they still own after dropping professions), that they will use merchants to help them sell. I think the example of 3k houses and statues is a clue that they will not. Working out a deal with a merchant is (currently) way too much effort (changes proposed elsewhere may improve this). They will take a loss on their crafted items and get the money back faster and easier doing a mission or two.
That said, I think the bazaar limit won't change much except make the default resource stack a bit larger and the underpriced grind goods a bit less underpriced. I do believe, however, that the bazaar listing fee should be a % of the sell price, rather than a flat fee. A % fee would let the newbies sell their small stack resources and loot drops for 20 and 50 credits and make most of that into profit, while at the same time making the value of vendors andBusiness/Merchant discountsmore apparent to those who sell expensive goods frequently. It would also provide the high-end non-artisan crafters (BEs, Doctors, Smugglers) sell their goods for an appropriate price without resorting to the taboo perma-vendor.
All the 150 item limit does is frustrate the successful merchants who actually keep large stock.
Your not going to get away from people who want to try and make some money back from their grind. Fortunatly, the things which are easy to grind that way are few. If you want anything more than a small house, your going to have to find a architect with a vendor.
ideas wrote:
The 3k price limit seems to be hurting crafters all by itself. Most pointedly, architects notice that statues and small houses sell for 3k -- which works out to 1 cpu for statues and < 1 cpu for the houses. This is because the holo-grinders sell their wares on the bazaar because they don't want to bother with vendors. A 6k limit will still under-price these high-resource items, but at least 2 cpu is closer to the mark.
I guess JTG's question was directed at me... I'm confused a bit but let me see if I understand it:
A product exists that might be worth 6k or less if the crafter harvests their own resources, but might be sold for more by a merchant with a vendor. By allowing people without vendors to sell for 6k, you reduce the chance of anyone selling it for more. Is that a close enough restatment of your concern?
That's a legitimate concern in theory, but doesn't play out when you examine the current 3000 price cap.
Ithink houses are a great example of why it may not matter. Small houses take about 3300 resources to make, including some subcombines. Using just average Flurry resource costs (roughly 3-5 cpu), lets assume that 10k would be a MINIMUM break-even price for a small house. After all, the person could easily sell 3300 resources for 10k. Some architects might like tohold out for30k becausemost other productssell for 10 cpu or more. But I've never seen a small house for 30k. In fact 10k-15k is the usual price I find when I notice it.
Why is that?
Because people sell small houses on the bazaar for 3000 credits right now. My friend bought two or three at that price (even before the holocron craze made grinding common). As a result, it's almost impossible to sell small houses for30k because people *think* 3k is a reasonable price. In other words, the low-ball pricing already happens. The difference is, if the cap is raised then the low-ball price is higher than it was, and so a reasonable price is a smaller step up.
You may be right that the cap will hurt certain item prices. But it is possible that the cap will actually help some prices, because the common perception of what an "expensivething" is worth on the bazaarwill go up from 3000 to 6000 credits. It's hard to predict, but I see more chance of good than bad.
It's speculation and opinion, of course.
I do agree with DocSavag that the database is the true motivation for the changes. And I don't think either change will help them with it.
Playing the game requires crafters to produce product -- both to get XP and to get money. Reducing vendor caps does not make this product go away, it just forces merchants to hide it in other places and move it more often. Raising bazaar caps does not make this product go away, it just lets people sell twice as many resources in a single stack, so that others can make more product faster.
The only thing that will make product go away faster is giving players incentive to destroy. Incentive to destroy (this is for the devs) means a positive in-game benefit from the destruction of items in the item database. I've listed a few possible incentives in other threads, so I won't go into it here.
You might as well re-post them here. Rather than expect people to search through other threads to find them.
ideas wrote:
The only thing that will make product go away faster is giving players incentive to destroy. Incentive to destroy (this is for the devs) means a positive in-game benefit from the destruction of items in the item database. I've listed a few possible incentives in other threads, so I won't go into it here.
Was one of your ideas to allow the junk dealer tobuying any item and giving 1cr per resourse unit used in it production?