Merchant Archive
Thread: Why now allow Vendors for all who have dropped skills No flames please
Page 1 of 2
Slayne-2004
Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:59 am
#1
All,
I realise this is a heated debate for those of you who have decided to go master merchant as your primary function. I appreciate the views but also ask that you appreciate this view. I ask that it not be flamed. That would serve no purpose as the opinion would not change. I simply as that you provide a balanced and uinemotional answer to my query.
If a person Masters Merchant, why should they not keep the vendors if this is possible. Frankly this should be a reward to mastering a difficult profession (perhaps with some limits but not zero vendors).
Within the game I have made a point of asking those with vendors if they use this exploit and many are happy to say that they do. Could we be reducing the trade on the game by taking out hunters and their loot vendors or people who have vendors to provide competition.
If this is changed from being an exploit t and actual game function I think this would benefit the overall gaming experience for all players. I am not saying I should be able to master merchant and have all the best vendors with all of the benefits after dropping it. Perhaps 2-3 basic vendors with a 100 ? 200? item limit on them would be adequate reward form completing this profession and then dropping th skill.
Cold this be the middle ground needed ??
I understand the point that no other pofession allows droppped skills to be kept but I also understabd that if all non vendors were given a week to remove them or lose the items I would wager that some of the best crafters and looters in the game would lose their vendors and therefore cut down the quality items in the game.
Where would the majority of trade then move to...? The forums or the misddle of coronet Starport ?? I doubt it would move to Master Merchants.
Please no Flames - this is just a view.
gando
Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:09 am
#2
As far as keeping vendors as "reward" for mastering a profession, ch's don't get to keep pets when they drop. And using your argument they should. I mean they've already trained the critters to be obedient right? I'll tell you why they shouldn't. It would be unfair to those who keep their SP tied to the ch prof. Plain and simple. And I assure you the economy wouldn't "crash" if this exploit was fixed. there's still the artisan merchant. Plus crafters can still sell wares to merchants. It's not fair to Merchants. Period. and I see no reasonable argument to NOT fix this bug.
footbinc
Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:16 am
#3
Actually , I think that is a great idea !
I think it is fair to reward someone for mastering a profession , with more than just a badge, and if you think about it , this could be applied to akmost any profession with little perks or bonuses , possibly adding permanently to the "base" stats/mods on your character.
For example,
Somebody who has mastered the medic profession, may be able to use StimA'a , (grant +10 to med use PERMANENTLY to the character)
Somebody who has mastered DE may get to keep 1-2 more droids in datapad (and gain a +5 repair bonus)
Somebody who has mastered Ranger may get a +10 to creature knowledge or harvesting
If somebody has masterd crafting profs , grant an overall repair mod to the person ( after all they DID make weapons at one time, why not a bonus for repairing , if even just +5 from each crafting prof mastered)
I think the idea would work, as long as the perks given were not huge bounuses,(such as just 1 vendor even for mastering merchant)and having skills like repair bonuses from mastering crafting profs or base terrain negotiation (for say , mastering scout), would be a nice way to reward people for mastering professions . The more you master, the more little bonuses you get, which allows for a character to become more versatile, and it makes for a wider variety of character types and styles.
khamafeu
Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:40 am
#4
I like the Idea of giving a SMALL bonus to someone who hs masterd a profession, that I think is very cool. Of course I don't think that keeping a vendor would be an appropriate reward for mastering merchant.
This said, they should remove vendor from ppl who don't have them. It's the only logical thing to do. They don't do it because it would upset ppl, and they have this notion not to upset ppl. It is ridiculous to keep vendors when you can't use them, pure and simple abuse... If you don't want to have artisan Business 3 and want to sell stuff do it inthe bazaar or make an agreement with a merchant that does carry vendors. If you need stims you talk to a doc, weapons a WS etc... vendors a merchant... IT would change the game? Sure, but for the better. The fact that ppl have gotten used to it isn't reson to keep it IG. Once again what they lack is the will ( cojones ) to erasethem, give a 7 days warning and then boom! No skill no vendor.... as it should be.
Now for those that say they don't have enough skill points lets do the math:
Master Combat profession ( No BH,No Commando ) - Spent 92 / Leaving 158
Artisan with Business III - 24 / 134
Second mastery in different basic skill - 92 / 42
Scout and Medic skills
Not bad... You could be a master rifleman, TKM, have medic, scout and still have a legal vendor... You could hunt, loot etc... and your little shop... Doesn't sound all that bad...
For the 100% crafter with no skill points to spare:
2 crafting masteries from artisan line plus 3 vendors with novice merchant and hiring I : 180 skill points and 50 to spend! Not bad once again...
The only crafters with skill point probs are Doc/BE, no more master Swordsman/MDOC and having vendors... Oh well... Is that so bad... this game gives you a lot of options just not all at the same time...
Arianrhod
RyushiYoshi
Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:50 am
#5
Slayne-2004 wrote:
All,
I realise this is a heated debate for those of you who have decided to go master merchant as your primary function. I appreciate the views but also ask that you appreciate this view. I ask that it not be flamed. That would serve no purpose as the opinion would not change. I simply as that you provide a balanced and uinemotional answer to my query.
If a person Masters Merchant, why should they not keep the vendors if this is possible. Frankly this should be a reward to mastering a difficult profession (perhaps with some limits but not zero vendors).
Within the game I have made a point of asking those with vendors if they use this exploit and many are happy to say that they do. Could we be reducing the trade on the game by taking out hunters and their loot vendors or people who have vendors to provide competition.
If this is changed from being an exploit t and actual game function I think this would benefit the overall gaming experience for all players. I am not saying I should be able to master merchant and have all the best vendors with all of the benefits after dropping it. Perhaps 2-3 basic vendors with a 100 ? 200? item limit on them would be adequate reward form completing this profession and then dropping th skill.
Cold this be the middle ground needed ??
I understand the point that no other pofession allows droppped skills to be kept but I also understabd that if all non vendors were given a week to remove them or lose the items I would wager that some of the best crafters and looters in the game would lose their vendors and therefore cut down the quality items in the game.
Where would the majority of trade then move to...? The forums or the misddle of coronet Starport ?? I doubt it would move to Master Merchants.
Please no Flames - this is just a view.
Having 6 vendors and using noSkillpoints to compensate in a game where Skillpoints is the only restriction for 'classes' that you choose and you don't see what's wrong with that?
You see you don't seem to understand that the Merchant profession itself has it's own income business, I rent out my vendors and that helps to keep me in business, I take 25% of all the vendor sales. When people Master Merchant just to make vendors and drop it and keep their vendors, that actually steals our potential income. The people who keep their vendors and drop Merchant can happily go about picking up a different profession with the freed up Skillpoints while the honest Merchants live with the SP cost and must craft their template around it like everyone else.
Tell me why do you think it's so fair and justified to keep vendors after dropping the skill required to use it, other than sheer greed? You belive a limited vendor that costs no skillpoints makes sense? Do you think if I drop Master Scout I should retain a +50 to creature harvesting as a, "Reward", for mastering it? Do you think if I drop masterDoctor I should retain the ability to revive players as a, "Reward", for mastering it? If I dropped Master Image Desginer should I be able to retain the ability to modifyallhair and body features as a, "Reward" formastering it? Or if I drop Master Bounty Hunter I should retain the ability to use Bounty Hunter Terminals and droids as a, "Reward" for mastering it? No, they all don't make sense Skillpoints wise. Unfortunately, people found out a way to bypass the Skillpoint requirements for having vendors and now we havemonopolizing crafterswith 6 vendors and Master 3.5 other professions. Where's the justification in that?
As for what people are going to do if they gave you a week to empty out exploit vendors, that's simple. Rent out Merchants or pick up your own Merchant skills, it's a sacrifice you have to make if you want a good running business. If you don't want to use Skillpointsto use vendors, you obviously don't want a business (is how it used to be). (Not directed at original poster)If you're too immature to gulp down that sacrifice of skillpoints and obnixious enough to whine about it you shouldn't be selling stuff in the first place.
Bottom line is:
*Exploited Vendors cost no Skillpoints, thus cheating out the honest crafters who Mastered Merchant, giving the exploiter67more Skillpoints to overpoweringly master other professions.
*Exploited Vendors have a direct impact on our business as Merchants, as there are no one to sell our services to.
*No profession is allowed to keep residual skills after being dropped, Merchant should be no exception as it is obviously notmeant to be. (If it was meant to be the skillboxes would cost 0 SP)
* People will always look to find a way to go around skillpoint costs in a game where only skillpoints restrict what you can be or cannot be. It is only archaic thought patterns and greed that lead people to think it is a justifiable action.
If exploited vendors were taken away the exploiters will think we're taking something away from them, when all this time they've been taking from us.
YamadaMan
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:02 am
#6
well, I have many ideas on how to do it right.
first, if they remove the vendors, they'll piss of thousands of people, I don't think it's very commercial.
then, the main issue here is that we can't set an admin list on a vendor, if we could, then we should do it this way:
Merchants will have a limited amount of vendors they can place **PER HOUSE** (or maybe city, let's say 10 vendors/city, and 2 vendors/house if not in a city). then give admin rights to the buyer (vendor's buyer), merchants set the name and vendor type.
then, merchants get a % on transactions made on each vendor they placed, like 5% of every sale. and they can get a regular rental income wich would be fixed, something as 50k/week or 100k/week per house (basically 25k or 50k per vendor)
Merchants only can advertise
first, if they remove the vendors, they'll piss of thousands of people, I don't think it's very commercial.
then, the main issue here is that we can't set an admin list on a vendor, if we could, then we should do it this way:
Merchants will have a limited amount of vendors they can place **PER HOUSE** (or maybe city, let's say 10 vendors/city, and 2 vendors/house if not in a city). then give admin rights to the buyer (vendor's buyer), merchants set the name and vendor type.
then, merchants get a % on transactions made on each vendor they placed, like 5% of every sale. and they can get a regular rental income wich would be fixed, something as 50k/week or 100k/week per house (basically 25k or 50k per vendor)
Merchants only can advertise
YamadaMan
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:06 am
#7
on the other hand, how I see it
merchants are shooting a bullet in market's foot
well if it's know that u can keep your vendors after u drop merchant, damn, why don't u guys just drop merchant as well and take the opportunity to see another side of the game with your new skill points ? just as almost everybody does. I mean this is not a problem, you're just nerfing yourselves here, you HAVE the POTENTIAL to run your business, AND explore other parts of the game, I think you're wrong here with not willing to use the possibilities you already have.
merchants are shooting a bullet in market's foot
well if it's know that u can keep your vendors after u drop merchant, damn, why don't u guys just drop merchant as well and take the opportunity to see another side of the game with your new skill points ? just as almost everybody does. I mean this is not a problem, you're just nerfing yourselves here, you HAVE the POTENTIAL to run your business, AND explore other parts of the game, I think you're wrong here with not willing to use the possibilities you already have.
Happymob
Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:02 am
#8
Slayne-2004 wrote:
Frankly this should be a reward to mastering a difficult profession (perhaps with some limits but not zero vendors).
Here is what you have to do to master merchant -
- Place a vendor
- Train
That's it. No carpal tunnel, no killing innocent bunnies, no afk macroing. Addmittedly, I'm not including the 30 minute grind to business 4 to get the pre-requisite.
But since it is so difficult, I agree with you - you should get a reward for mastering merchant and subsequently dropping it. And that reward should be bazaar listing fees of 12 credits!
FS_Paith
Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:03 am
#9
Merchant vendors should go poof if they drop the profession. Artisan vendors should do the same. Its meant if you have that professions to have vendors. Not everyone. I hope they 'poof' these soon because of all the lame empty vendors out there. Get registered on map and then they just sit there. NERF THE PLAYER VENDORS THAT DONT HAVE THE PROFESSION!! 
flame on
Andymantium
Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:53 am
#10
From TH's "19 Answers" Thread, posted on 04-22-2004:
Merchant: Currently there is a lot of debate about the fact that there is no skill point check for managing vendors. Is it the intent of the development team that vendors operate normally even when owned by players who no longer have the Management skill required to place that vendor?
It was never intended for players to be able to keep and manage vendors after surrendering the Management skill boxes used to acquire them. This is scheduled to be fixed in a future publish and we want to upgrade vendors also, but it’s a bit early to start talking about that.
Original Post (scroll down to the Merchant question).
Merchant: Currently there is a lot of debate about the fact that there is no skill point check for managing vendors. Is it the intent of the development team that vendors operate normally even when owned by players who no longer have the Management skill required to place that vendor?
It was never intended for players to be able to keep and manage vendors after surrendering the Management skill boxes used to acquire them. This is scheduled to be fixed in a future publish and we want to upgrade vendors also, but it’s a bit early to start talking about that.
Original Post (scroll down to the Merchant question).
Scoooter
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:19 am
#11
RyushiYoshi wrote:
You see you don't seem to understand that the Merchant profession itself has it's own income business, I rent out my vendors and that helps to keep me in business, I take 25% of all the vendor sales. When people Master Merchant just to make vendors and drop it and keep their vendors, that actually steals our potential income. The people who keep their vendors and drop Merchant can happily go about picking up a different profession with the freed up Skillpoints while the honest Merchants live with the SP cost and must craft their template around it like everyone else.
This is a very good point.
In fact since you can drop merchant at present and keep all the benefits (unless you need to move your vendor) this bug in fact does not make merchant a legitimate profession.
Legitimate professions have an on going purpose. This bug (which was not the devs intent) is a slap in the face to anyone that wants to have merchant as a legitimate profession.
Fixing this is the only way to legitimizie the profession and needs to be done, sorry.
I cant keep my dodge defenses if I drop pistoleer, nor can I use medicines if I drop doctor, nor can Iuse above CL10 pets if I drop CH and the list goes on. Why should someone be able to use vendors if the drop merchant and BUS 3 in artisan.
rexan
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:30 am
#12
footbinc wrote:
Actually , I think that is a great idea !
I think it is fair to reward someone for mastering a profession , with more than just a badge, and if you think about it , this could be applied to akmost any profession with little perks or bonuses , possibly adding permanently to the "base" stats/mods on your character.
For example,
Somebody who has mastered the medic profession, may be able to use StimA'a , (grant +10 to med use PERMANENTLY to the character)
Somebody who has mastered DE may get to keep 1-2 more droids in datapad (and gain a +5 repair bonus)
Somebody who has mastered Ranger may get a +10 to creature knowledge or harvesting
If somebody has masterd crafting profs , grant an overall repair mod to the person ( after all they DID make weapons at one time, why not a bonus for repairing , if even just +5 from each crafting prof mastered)
From a gameplay standpoint this is a terible idea.
It wouldforce everyone in the game to master every profession.
Otherwise, you would not be able to compete if you can't:
harvest/heal/slice/repair/meditate/polotic/craft/tame/ID/dance/playmusic/survey/vendor/+melee(TKA)/+meleedef(TKA)/+melee(2H)/+meleedef(2H)/+melee(1h)/+meleedef(1h)/+melee(pike)/+meleedef(pike)/+range(pistol)/+rangeddef(pistol)/+range(carb)/+rangeddef(carb)/+range(rifle)/+rangeddef(rifle)/launcher_cert/scatter_cert...etc
The list would be ridiculous.
Message Edited by rexan on 06-22-2004 09:31 AM
OckVofad
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:39 am
#13
People who want to keep their vendors constantly come here and post. It is getting very old.
The bonus for getting a badge wont happen because it has the potential to unbalance the game.
The bottom line is this: The vendor bug fix is going to happen. You have enough time to plan for it. Get over it.
How you think that you can post another protest thread and not get flamed is beyond me.
Page 1 of 2