Merchant Archive
Thread: Stacking limits for resources
Diorchas wrote:I was just wondering if anyone here knew exactly why the devs capped resource stacking at 100k. Is there something in the database preventing it from going higher? If not, do you know the rationale behind the cap (i.e. why it is more feasible to cap it at 100k than 1mil)?I apologise if this territory has been covered before. I just don't have the time to do an extensive search looking for the info.
The limitation of resources to 100k per stack affects how many resources you can have in your posession at any one time. Increasing the size of the stack increases the amount of resources you have.
I'm sure it's not technical but balance. As you note, yes, people "get around" storage to a certain extent, but come on...100K of resource is a whole lotta material, unless you are a shipwright. The point is to not let people just store unlimited resources, and in the case of shipwright they are obviously doing everything they can to prevent the veteran-glut most crafting professions face. I mean, right now you can carry 11 million units of resource on you at once - add another 5 million to that if you count droid storage. So that's 16 million units of resource that can be moved at once.
In terms of storage, each factory can hold 10 million units...15 million in a small house. Another 10 million in your bank.
Granted, these are the maxxes, but these are big numbers. As I said, the only professions that need this quantity of materials is a shipwright, and again - I think the intention is to gate that somewhat. It may not be totally fair, but unfortunately SOE looks at the bottom line - my belief is the reason item storage has stayed so low is because they know people routinely pay for another account just to get another 10 lots of storage. Some people even more.
I guess I could see it a bit higher, but to be honest, 100K is a nice round even number. They'd never up it to 1 million, and 200K or 250K just sounds so arbitrary.
What we really need to look at is storage issues specific to crafting. The warehouse idea that's been floating around for ages (a structure that can only hold factory crates or resources, say 250 for 2 lots), and just general item limits need to be addressed. I don't think you will see movement on the resource stack size front, but you never know.
AO
Diorchas wrote:
Fair enough, but isn't it fait accompli by now? I mean, hasn't it been made increasingly clear that the only people hurt by resource stacking caps are the "casual" crafters? Hardcore crafters have found multiple different workarounds, so why not just increase the caps?
But How would making it higher not make it just easier for those that work around it aleady to keep doing so? The Devs would probably far rather make changes that limit the ability to work around those limits than they would just opening up the flood gates...
But with storage issues the way they are now (assuming that you're following the rules), there just isn't enough room for a crafter. If you cheat there are workarounds, sure, but I don't see how that invalidates increasing the cap.
For the record, I am all for the warehouse idea and/or re-instituting a Miner profession that allowed for more efficient mining and resource storage. But barring that, it seems like the easiest way to cut down on database instances is to simply raise the cap.
Diorchas wrote:
Fair enough, but isn't it fait accompli by now? I mean, hasn't it been made increasingly clear that the only people hurt by resource stacking caps are the "casual" crafters? Hardcore crafters have found multiple different workarounds, so why not just increase the caps?
If anything it still helps the casual crafters. Or newer crafters. Otherwise where would be no way a new crafter could compete with someone who would be able tohorde 150million resources in a small house rather than just the 1.5 million that is possible today.
Its debatable to say that you can't be a successful crafter without more than 15 million in resources. Of course most people can't store 15 million resources in a house because they don't have 100% effiency in the stacks of resources. But even with partial stacks I was able to store the 6.5 million resources for mastering shipwright in a single house with plenty of room to spare.
DocSavag wrote:
Its debatable to say that you can't be a successful crafter without more than 15 million in resources.
Agreed. It certainly depends on the profession to some extent, but I'll use the example that I am most familier with - a doctor.
Let's say I am a single character doctor/merchant. I don't participate in lot swaps. I want to run a reasonable doctor vending business. I could use my lots as follows:
1 hospital (3 lots)
1 merchant tent (1 lot)
2 factories (2 lots)
4 heavy harvesters (4 lots)
With this setup, I could store components in the factories. I could store 15 million units of resources in the hospital and still have 75 inventory slots available for decorating. I could run two locations of vendors (one in the hospital, another off-planet in the tent). I would be generating twice the number of resources that I would consume in the factories. Based on excess resource sales and 2 factories of output, I could generate a profit of around 300K credits a day.
Exactly how is it that I can't compete with this setup? I might not have the absolute best resources, but 870 power buffpacks sell (even though 900+ power are the best). 400 power stims sell, even though others can make better. If 3 spawns of great resources pop up at once, my harvester lots limit me. So I have to occasionallky supplementwhat I harvest with purchased resources. Not a huge deal. I am limited in how much I can sell, but 300K profit a day doesn't sound too shabby to me.
And just how many resources is 15 million to a 2 factory doctor operation? 18 months of resources, if I stopped harvesting altogether.
Bottom line is I've never really bought the argument that a small-time crafter "can't compete" with the 10 factory, multi-character, lot swapping competitors. A crafting merchant can make a good chunk of money off of 10 lots if they know what they are doing.
AudioOrgana wrote:
Hehe...back in beta when they upped it to 100K from 250 (yes, two hundred-fifty units) we all said, "Why in the world would anyone need that much!"
I'm sure it's not technical but balance. As you note, yes, people "get around" storage to a certain extent, but come on...100K of resource is a whole lotta material, unless you are a shipwright. The point is to not let people just store unlimited resources, and in the case of shipwright they are obviously doing everything they can to prevent the veteran-glut most crafting professions face. I mean, right now you can carry 11 million units of resource on you at once - add another 5 million to that if you count droid storage. So that's 16 million units of resource that can be moved at once.
In terms of storage, each factory can hold 10 million units...15 million in a small house. Another 10 million in your bank.
Granted, these are the maxxes, but these are big numbers. As I said, the only professions that need this quantity of materials is a shipwright, and again - I think the intention is to gate that somewhat. It may not be totally fair, but unfortunately SOE looks at the bottom line - my belief is the reason item storage has stayed so low is because they know people routinely pay for another account just to get another 10 lots of storage. Some people even more.
I guess I could see it a bit higher, but to be honest, 100K is a nice round even number. They'd never up it to 1 million, and 200K or 250K just sounds so arbitrary.
What we really need to look at is storage issues specific to crafting. The warehouse idea that's been floating around for ages (a structure that can only hold factory crates or resources, say 250 for 2 lots), and just general item limits need to be addressed. I don't think you will see movement on the resource stack size front, but you never know.
AO
Not a single profession you have listed actually uses a high volume of resources. Whereas, I have played the highest volume architect on Tempest (that I know of, and I do know of all the big ones) for well over a year. Ascribing your requirements for resources to DE and/or Artisan needs doesn't even come close.
100K is not a nice round number. It takes 520K of steel just to make a run of most of my operational components for Architect, and now I'm also doing Shipwright, which not only let's you do everything by hand, but is just trying it's best to use even more resources than Architect.
Seriously, what's 2.2 million units of ore and 550K of metal to you? A lot? To me it's 1,000 walls. I used 2,400 walls last week alone and people are still screaming for more each day.
The difference in perspectives is driven by our professions, IMO. A warehouse means squat to me. I have 8 accounts now and use 30 of those lots primarily just for storage alone. Nearly all my bank space on the 8 toons is full of the rarest resources because we do not have to mythical supreme resource spawns. Literally, resources that spawned 16 months ago are STILL the best ever on the server. I invite you to visit the Tempest Resource Co-op at www.asiabrothers.com, which has historical resource information going back to Sept 2003. I and other maintainers update that site DAILY with the current galaxy-wide survey.
> In terms of storage, each factory can hold 10 million units...15 million in a small house.
>Another 10 million in your bank.
This statement is just not true in practice. Walking around or storing only resources in the game means you do little else. Also, since resources segment AND split AND require some sort of organization you will not get 100% efficiency of storage. Even then, when I do a run that gleans 10 million units of a good resource I cannot just burn through it without looking towards the future. I plan on being a crafter in Architect, Artisan, Bio-Engineering, Chef, Combat Medic, Doc, Medic, Shipwright and Tailor professions for a long time to come. I ENJOY the economy and devote a large part of my game time to doing such. Powergamer, sure. But I can easily get around the storage requirements problem and just deal with building management. NOTHING they do will limit my storage use in this game unless I abandon my guild and friends that gladly help out.
But stacking to 1000K (a nice round number I believe 
) would decrease my resource storage requirements 20 fold (at last count) and reduce over 64 buildings to 6, not to mention the factories that would be pulled up. Stress on the database and server loads on dissemination would decrease dramatically. Ultimately, I would be helped, A LOT, but I would also finally get some others to try out Architect so that hopefully I wouldn't be the goto man for making city structures and large volumes of harvestors on Tempest. SPECIFICALLY for Architect and Shipwright, the 100K limitation is a disservice to the casual gamer and the primary reason that people do not participate in those professions, IMO.
Fivo Asia
DocSavag wrote:
But How would making it higher not make it just easier for those that work around it aleady to keep doing so? The Devs would probably far rather make changes that limit the ability to work around those limits than they would just opening up the flood gates...
Diorchas wrote:
Fair enough, but isn't it fait accompli by now? I mean, hasn't it been made increasingly clear that the only people hurt by resource stacking caps are the "casual" crafters? Hardcore crafters have found multiple different workarounds, so why not just increase the caps?
I'd be more than glad to provide EXTENSIVE examples of how this logic is failed, IF I thought they would listen. Thunderheart's famous "No and stop asking" response didn't help mend any rifts with crafters.
When the devs show me a crafting character that they've spent a year plus operating and dealing with their own limitations I'll believe they understand the dynamics of storage pertaining to the crafting community. Being a "Master of the Blue Frog" means jack to me.
Fivo Asia
Message Edited by Cafa on 12-07-2004 08:53 AM