Merchant Archive

Thread: DocSavag, regarding the vendor limit (items rumour)

Sevardos
Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:40 am
#1

Is this a real consideration by the devs to limit the number of items on avendors to 150 after the dropped-skills is fixed?


I have some real issues with this and I'm sure it will affect many merchants and crafters. I currently run 6 vendors - each hired to sell a specificcategory of products. With some categories, itwould be impossible to have a wide variety of choice to offer customers and it's doesn't make sense to restrict it from a player point of view that is NOT exploiting.


Examples:

Furniture - there are many different types of furniture and you have to have at a minimum 3 of each type on the vendor or you will lose sales. It's too unpredictable to determine what levels of each you should have at any given day - and I keep a seperate inventory on a spreadsheet and track it daily. Some items, like chairs, you need to have at least 10 or crates of 5 and 10.


PowerUps is another example and I only sell these in crates. But the crates only come in 10 and most customers usually buy 10-20 at a time. With a 150 item limit, I would lose a lot of business in PowerUps and not be able to provide very much choice for my large repeat customers.


Note: I rarely have to restock because I try to manage inventory levels and most of products I put on the vendor will turn-overwithin 2weeks.


If this issue or reason Dev's are considering this is because of vendors being used as storage, then I would rather they set a limit on pricing than on the number of items. If you place a price cap of, lets say, 5M, then you'd eliminate the backpacks on vendors at 9999999.


I would like to propose that this be the next question to the Devs.


Thanks,



Sevardos

The ))SUN(( Centre
636 -3836 Corellia (just outside Coronet) - Bria
Buff Packs * All Meds * Harvesters * Factories * Designer Furniture * Tools
*** ALPHA TESTER: Combat Balance ***
DingoBoi
Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:45 am
#2


grrrr

Message Edited by DingoBoi on 06-03-2004 03:46 PM



~ EPC SHIPYARDS ~
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Premium Ships & Components Featuring 5 Master Shipwrights * Powering the Eclipse Galaxy
u A R B O R E A L H O R I Z O N S u L A R G E S T S H I P Y A R D S I N T HE G A L A X Y u Naboo -6500 3300u
u M E G A C O R P u P O W E R u Talus -546 -2767u
GoCanes
Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:05 pm
#3

It should be scaled as DingoBoi mentions, but hpefully they do one of two things...


1) Scale it at:



business 3 150 items

novice merc 200 items each

manage1 225 items each

manage2 250 items each

manage3 275 items each

manage4 300 items each

master 350 items each


just like DB mentions, but make it a pool... So at Master Merchant we would have a pool of 6x350=2100 items among the 6 vendors... I have one vendor that carries around 200 items and another that can carry 500+ at times... Limiting to only 350 would make me split my items over two vendors and reduce my vendors to be contracted out to crafters by one...


2) Scale it at:


business 3 150 items

novice merc 250 items each

manage1300 items each

manage2 350 items each

manage3400 items each

manage4 450 items each

master 600 items each


and keep it tied to the individual vendor... Tailors listing clothing can easily go over 600 items on a vendor, Architects can easily go over 600 pieces of furniture, DEs can go over 600 droids, Master Artisans can go over 600 PUs and probably another 600+ for a vendor with components only... But at least the higher limit would allieviate the issue considerably...


If I had a choice between the two above options, I would choose #2so that I could go out and contract the extra vendors (beyond my own two that I require for personal sales) and assure teh customer that I can cary a considerable number of items for them... ^_^



GoCanes - Radiant Server - Pikeman
44.3+ Crafting Stations and 15.00 Crafting Tools outside Theed, Naboo at -4760 5332
Resources and Radioactives Vendor located 1k outside Coronet, Corellia at 892 -4844
Starting active duty to Iraq 27 November 2004, so I may not be able to stock afterwards

LonelyGhost
Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:24 pm
#4

Even better...put the extra item grants in the Efficiency tree. This way people who are trying to get over as easily as possible have to go up two tree's for it to be worth while. I'd also suggest removing the vendor from business 3, leaving just the one at Business 4 (with a 50 item cap) ...


Bus 1 - 1

Novice - 1

I - 1

II -1

III - 1
IV - 2

Master - 3

Total is 10 vendors. If we are going to become real Merchants, we will need more vendors for better variety.


The Item cap is raised in the Efficiency tree. At Bus IV you get 50 items.


Bus IV - 50

Novice - +100

Eff I - +50

Eff II - +50

Eff III - +75

Eff IV - +75

Master - +100


Resulting in each vendor having a cap of 500 items. That should be enough for just about anyone!



Crys Akkori - Merchant Engineer
Veteren of SIN, IO, and XC - A Founder of Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Architect, Artisan, Chef, Merchant

Vendor on Naboo at -7547 4635 (Fly in to Theed)

Crafters do have decay on resources. As we use it it GOES AWAY. And when it's gone, we have to get more. - Elekae
CraftDragon
Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:15 pm
#5

If they ever limit my vendors, I will completely give up all crafting. PERIOD. Not having room for my sales would be pointless.



CraftDragon Elder Jedi
(Thank GOD I can kill BHs again)
Alt: KraftDragon EX-Master Resourcer>(I miss my harvesters)
Master Architect Master Artisan Master Merchant


Member of
ATF Rebel Colonel
Does my sitting on a throne of bloody Imperial skulls bother you?
LonelyGhost
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:37 pm
#6

I'm just curious...not flaming or anything:


Why would you drop crafting altogether? Is it really so evil to sell your stuff to a Merchant who would then retail it? Woudl it really hurt you to cut 20%-30% off your price so the Merchant can make a few credits on it? What do you think you could do with the time you used to spend maintaining your vendors and listing stuff ad-nauseum? Did you like maintaining vendors and all that? If so, maybe you were meant to be a Merchant!


IMHO, this is the attitude that is killing the Merchant profession. Well, heck, we never really had a "birth", heheheheheh. People forget that everytime they go to a store to buy milk, a new computer, or a copy of SWG, they are interacting with a Merchant! They (generally) do not buy from the people on the assembly line of the factory who made the Playstation. The company sells to a distributor, who either retails it themself, or who sells to a Retailer.


This is the model I believe the Merchant was built around, to be the distributor/retailers of goods!



Crys Akkori - Merchant Engineer
Veteren of SIN, IO, and XC - A Founder of Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Architect, Artisan, Chef, Merchant

Vendor on Naboo at -7547 4635 (Fly in to Theed)

Crafters do have decay on resources. As we use it it GOES AWAY. And when it's gone, we have to get more. - Elekae
DocSavag
Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:04 pm
#7

There was a long ago proposal on the table to limit vendors to 150 items. That was roundly rejected by Merchants and other vendor operators. The devs are supposed to come back to us with a new proposal that will probably be higher limits but will be indexed to merchant skills. We don't know what the final proposal will be yet because they haven't released it.






----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder



Korrack
Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:30 am
#8

The rumor was started here --> ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors


After many many pages of screaming outraged merchants and players, they opted to just do the bazaar 6000 credit cap change and will be determining what sort of item limit they will be placing on vendors at a later time. The need to limit is required due to the database bloat happening. Poorly handled item limits and stacking of resources and crates and such creates too many individual objects within the database for it to handle. This causes a lot of the downtime and game lag that is apparant at times (like when guildchat/tells/groupchat stops working). As a quick thought to fix it, they were going to limit the number of items which can be stored to 150 per vendor regardless. After the large outcry, the change was put on hold. Expect it to happen tho.



OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK __________________________
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK R E V E R E N C E
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK Black Sun Droid Engineer
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK Outer Rim Droidworks
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK Restuss Rori 5679 6517
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK __________________________
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
OKIEKORRACKOKIEKORRACK
LonelyGhost
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:06 am
#9

Thats exactly why they will fail. If it is indeed the database that needs help, putting item caps on vendors will only HURT the database. Here's why -


I will just find 2 people to drop 10 small houses each, and store everything in them.


And it will probbaly be a lot-swap.


So now the database has an additional 10 things to track, and the World lag will get worse because my personal U-Stor-It City will be viewable by anyone driving by.


What the Devs have failed to realize is that players WILL have as much stuff as they want, NO MATTER WHAT the Devs do!!! It is in human nature to hoard stuff. They C.A.N.N.O.T W.I.N


Vendor caps shoudl be done ONLY for the reason of helping Merchant to be a viable profession. And there should be a lot more done that just that. Acually, vendor caps should be the LAST thing they put in! After a new interface, a different type of vendor, private vendors, commission sales etc.....



Crys Akkori - Merchant Engineer
Veteren of SIN, IO, and XC - A Founder of Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Architect, Artisan, Chef, Merchant

Vendor on Naboo at -7547 4635 (Fly in to Theed)

Crafters do have decay on resources. As we use it it GOES AWAY. And when it's gone, we have to get more. - Elekae
LonelyGhost
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:07 am
#10

oops...heheh 5 small houses each.... /emote waits anxiously for the "edit" feature to arrive...



Crys Akkori - Merchant Engineer
Veteren of SIN, IO, and XC - A Founder of Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Architect, Artisan, Chef, Merchant

Vendor on Naboo at -7547 4635 (Fly in to Theed)

Crafters do have decay on resources. As we use it it GOES AWAY. And when it's gone, we have to get more. - Elekae
Haruspex77
Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:02 pm
#11






Numen wrote:

Are there merchants out there that would drop 10-15 million on some days for my product?






With the consignment feature we have asked for, the merchant wouldn't have to tie that money up speculating on your product. So if that goes in place, yes, a merchant would find it very attractive to handle your product.


The ability to put a case on a vendor, and vendor logic to let the buyer buy singles or partial cases, could greatly reduce the need for vendor items. Stocking various case sizes in quantities to handle sales for a couple of days really multiplies the number of items.


Containers that were "transparent" so the contents and their stats were visible would reduce the count needed too. While this is especially true for Armourers, lots of items like buffs, and components are needed in sets, and things like customization kits, batteries, pet stims, and furniture are nice to package with larger items. It would be especially nice to package a manufacturing schematic with the needed resources. Merchants should be able to package items.


I would like to see the Bus 3 vendor limited to a very small count -- less than 100 and perhaps as small as 25. It is, after all, just a "starter" vendor. It should be meant to fill orders and


I like the idea of putting the maximum item in a different column than management, and efficiency seems a good choice. But the item count maximum should grow exponentially at each level. Otherwise the difference between the higher levels doesn't amount to much. Something like this:



  • 25 bus 3

  • 50 Bus 4

  • 100 Novice Merch

  • 150 EFF 1

  • 250 EFF 2

  • 400 EFF 3

  • 650 EFF 4

  • 1000 Master (or perhaps unlimited at that level)

The mechanics of enforcement should be that you cannot add an item to your vendor beyond the limit. If you drop a skill, your items stay, but you cannot add another. If the devs have trouble with dropping vendors when dropping a skill, perhaps the item count should be a total with suitably larger numbers like:25, 50, 200, 450, 1000, 2000, 4000. You could keep those extra vendors, but still be limited in what goes in them.


With a good user interface, a single vendor should be all a master needs at a location. Management should be about multiple locations once a reasonable level of efficiency is reached.


The Merchant profession needs some love to be what it ought to be, not just some single patches or nerfs. I posted a while ago what I thinkit should be:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=26942#M26942





Numen
Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:19 pm
#12






Haruspex77 wrote:





Numen wrote:

Are there merchants out there that would drop 10-15 million on some days for my product?







With the consignment feature we have asked for, the merchant wouldn't have to tie that money up speculating on your product. So if that goes in place, yes, a merchant would find it very attractive to handle your product.


The ability to put a case on a vendor, and vendor logic to let the buyer buy singles or partial cases, could greatly reduce the need for vendor items. Stocking various case sizes in quantities to handle sales for a couple of days really multiplies the number of items.


Containers that were "transparent" so the contents and their stats were visible would reduce the count needed too. While this is especially true for Armourers, lots of items like buffs, and components are needed in sets, and things like customization kits, batteries, pet stims, and furniture are nice to package with larger items. It would be especially nice to package a manufacturing schematic with the needed resources. Merchants should be able to package items.









While all those features are nice, I'll say I'm a bit sceptical that the devs can actually put it off. If they can't, great, that solves all my issues. I've just seen too many professions have a list of things they wanted and the devs rip it apart and hand back the little pieces they wanted to do.


I completely agree the merchant profession needs some help. It is nothing more than a support class right now for crafters. There needs to be a reason for someone to be a Merchant and not have any crafting skills. Otherwise there is no point in having the merchant profession, just give vendors to all the crafting professions.





Amandil Morier - Tempest - Master Chef
LonelyGhost
Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:03 pm
#13

There is no doubt that the changes I suspect the Devs will make are going to require a complete reworking of lots of people business. Let me say up front that I do not neccesarily agree with the underlying reasonings I am inferring, but I do agree that something needs to be done to make Merchant viable.


Let me play devils advocate for a moment. /raiseflamaeshield


Do you really need to have 10 million in the bank? What can you do with 10 million that you cant do with one million *if the entire economy is adjusted down*!! WS tapes and AS tapes go for a million or so a point. What is they only went for 100k a point? Your Million credits would buy you the exact same tape. All thas happened is a zero was dropped of the end of all the numbers involved.


Its my sincere belief that the Devs want to make the credit worth something again. I believe they want the insane inflation we have been seeing to become reasonable.I blieve that they would rather see you, the dedicated crafter, selling dozens of weapons a day instead of hundreds. If my suspicions are correct, you wouldnt be selling your Retailer 10 million credits worth of goods, but maybe 100k.


The idea, IMHO, is to make it so more players can experience the crafting game, and actually develop a niche market. What we have now is maybe 3 or 4 WS on each server who are well know and who have a loyal patronage that includes virtually anyone who fights! Even new people, while learning the game, are referred to these Established Masters by the people they interact with. The newer crafter has little chance to carve out a territory. SO we have a huge gap between the upper and lower echelons of the craftign game...those who make 20 million or more a week, and those who make 200k or so a week. Or even 20k.


It is this gap I believe the Devs want to narrow. Again, it wouldn't be too hard. They would just have to break out the riot gear, warn the Suits who are getting rich off us to expect a short-tern decline in subscriptions, and make the changes. Schematic revocation as you go up the profession would help as well. Allowing lower level crafters to fully experiment on items that exist on the lower spectrum of the tree's. Harvester ber nerfs, vendor caps, etc....


Its just a game, after all, and all we have to do is find a way to have fun in it. This will likely mean we need to adjust our expectations in-game. So what if I only have 2 million instead of 20? I can still do everything I wanted to do. And more people are able to participate meaningfully.


We'll see....





Crys Akkori - Merchant Engineer
Veteren of SIN, IO, and XC - A Founder of Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Architect, Artisan, Chef, Merchant

Vendor on Naboo at -7547 4635 (Fly in to Theed)

Crafters do have decay on resources. As we use it it GOES AWAY. And when it's gone, we have to get more. - Elekae
Page 1 of 2
Previous Next