Merchant Archive
Thread: The nonskilled ‘merchant’ problem – or be careful what you ask for.
I’ve tried to be civil and present both sides of this issue here for discussion. Very few folks want to discuss anything. MOST ‘merchants’ are digging in their heals and accusing their fellow players of being everything but a child of Jesus – the cause of allllll their woes. Things will magically be better if they are just exterminated – preferably with extreme prejudice. They have a point in that Merchant as a class sucks so badly it’s not ‘worth’ investment in skillpoints (much less an elite class) unless they have sole vendor ownership.
The other side has presented argument after (good and sound) argument to the fact that they enjoy other things in the game and Merchant sucks so badly it’s not ‘worth’ investment in skillpoints. They do have the fact that selling produce is intuitive and a natural and organic extension of gathering, hunting, producing – as well as the fact that not all professions are created equal and some very fairly do NOT have extra points to expend.
Notice a common ground here? Perhaps the Merchant as an elite class sucks part?
But I digress.
So far – anyone that expended the effort once could place vendors. They couldn’t do any changes to them if they gave up skills but it did give an even playing field in that everyone could have the same efficient method of distribution for all goods – and it wasn’t a freebie, they had to earn the skill once. Same amount of maintenance. The fact that Merchant is primarily an elite profession made out of nothing is NOT the fault of other players.
Under this system – this free market PC driven system, anyone that applied themselves could be successful. Prices vary, but everyone had a relatively even shot at the brass ring and prices overall had a reasonable min and max – free market dictates what the market will bear – but it self corrects.
The rallying cry of the ‘skilled’ merchant is let them use the bazaar – 25 item limit and recently raised to a 6k cap on price. The French found out many years ago what the ‘let them eat cake’ attitude got them.
Newsflash folks – when MMO players get pissed off – lots of them leave. Those aren’t the ones we – the players – necessarily have the most to be concerned about.
The other reaction is to stick around and get even.
If the ‘non’skilled merchant problem is as rampant as most skilled merchants seem to think – there are a LOT more of them – than us. You see – I HAVE merchant skills, but unlike a lot of my brethren, I happen to think a truly free economic model is best for everyone concerned.
So, to all the merchants dancing in the streets wanting to stomp on the bruised and bloody bodies of your fellow players that only are trying to survive just like you are what are you going to do when every one of them (or even a relatively small handful with friends) – and of course they can recruit a LOT of help in this (no skill needed remember)- get organized to drive MERCHANTS out of business. They have more numbers, and they are pissed – don’t think for a second this can’t be done or won’t happen, it’s a FAR more likely scenario (than say – a merchant strike) this could occur and you will have brought it all onto yourselves.
Remember – you told them to use the bazaar.
Everyone and their dog starts listing things on the bazaar at the 6k cap. Items that SHOULD cost 10k, 20k, 50k? All selling for 6k – in droves. Craftsmen screwed over by ‘merchants’, gatherers screwed over by ‘merchants’, hunters screwed over by ‘merchants’, folks with anything at all to sell that just feel screwed over – all listing their 25 items – and getting all their friends to list for them as well.
At this point – doesn’t matter if it’s at a loss, remember YOU are the one that decided to upset the applecart – profit as a motivation goes out the window. You have ongoing fees whether you sell anything or not – they don’t – not that that is a particularly threatening prospect for most merchants.
Well, I don’t run my shop for a profit anymore anyway you say – fair enough, there is some payoff even if just the satisfaction of having a nicely appointed and well run shop – but shops will be ghost towns.
That poor little guy that just wanted to have a little more enjoyment out of his game and have one poor little vendor on the side wasn’t much competition to you – even if he had much to sell, someone had to find his shop – HE was happy with the arrangement, YOU decided you were going to take your bat and your ball and go home – he couldn’t play anymore. Ones that MIGHT have been competition, that know business and aren't so little - and certainly aren't poor are a far bigger threat now.
Alone – he’s no threat. Motivated, organized – he can cripple the server’s economies and it wouldn’t take all that long. Month – two months, not even necessarily at a loss.
Oh – but I’ll just go buy up all those bargains and resell – and you might, some of them – and they’ll sell – eventually – but oh wait a minute, you now have limits and you’ll never be able to siphon off this kind production nor will there be anyone standing around to rebuy it – at least not for months.
Those that aren’t upset enough at merchants to do this, well – I’m sure there isn’t a lot of love for devs that designed a system, allowed it function to fill in their own lack of support systems for a year then decided to yank out the rug without replacing it with something to serve the same function. Were I in this position, I must admit I’d get a small amount of satisfaction showing them in grand and graphic detail where their flaws in design logic are. Left alone – this would never happen, self-interest would prevent it – it’s no longer been left alone, motivation has been given for something more than pure self-interest.
All it takes is more supply than demand on the bazaar at industry crushing prices.
Enlightened self-interest is a wondrous thing.
SeraphinAnnie wrote:
Merchants just want everyone exterminated, and are prejudice? That's...funny. I can't even count how many pissed off non-merchants have posted that the Merchant profession needs to just be removed completely in the past 2 days, and how we all suck and need to be nerfed harder. Merchants aren't asking for blood. Nor did we storm down the doors of SOE to make them do this. SOE made the decision to finally fix a long standing, unintended bug, not us. We may have complained, as we had every right to, but we didn't force them to do it. It was never intended, no matter how much you argue it now. Blaming merchants for a decision that wasn't made by us, and then trying to imply some threat to all of us blood thirsty vendor toters is just silly. I'm sorry, but your post only made me laugh and think that someone is being a bit...dramatic.
Personally, I don't give 2 poopies if you can have vendors after you dropped the skill. It doesn't personally bother me, not even as a long time merchant. However, the least the non-merchants can do, is to quit using the really bad arguments they've been posting already. They really are terrible. Most of them contradict each other or are twisting facts and grasping at straws, but people are clinging onto them for dear life, as if they're actually "good reasons". They aren't "reasons" at all, they're excuses. Excuses for wanting to have something you know you aren't supposed to. You know we're right, you just don't want to gulp down and admit it.
You're pissed at the wrong people. But hey, if you're that upset and out for "revenge", go for it, more power to you. Try and "get even".
Sure going to be tough trying to drive merchants outof business without any vendors though...
You really should read what some merchants post here - and even if a tiny minority - they are a LOUD minority.
And *I* have merchant skills, but if you think this would be tough without vendors - nope - it would be pretty much impossible WITH them, but without them - and with only the tiniest bit of organization it's an all too real prospect.
I never had vendors without the skill points, but I know people who did. These are people who wanted a 1/2 crafter 1/2 warrior character and couldn't afford a 2nd account.
Crafters are just not profitable unless you are a master
Warriors are useless in PvP unless you are a elite master
That doesn't leave a ton of SP left for merchant.
The original poster brings up a lot of good points. With the ability to "solo group" money is not really hard to come by so do you think people are gonna care if they start selling things for 6k all around just to put others out of business??
I have a master merchant, but I really think that the whole profession is a waste of Skill points. The abilities granted are insiginifent compared to other professions. The only truly useful skill trees are advertiseing and only at advert III and Management because of the additional vendors. Hireing is a joke, you get the ability to "pick" a ugly looking vendor and *gasp* give him a uniform for 15 SP. Effecency Ok so you get Discounts, in a game where money don't mean a whole hell of a lot.
They need to revamp merchant, I think the ability to "sell" vendors to others is a good place to start. Maybe vendors sold by merchants have 2x the maintance fees of merchant owned vendors, or can give the merchant creator a % of the sales. Or the vendors only last 60 days before they "quit"
But somethign should be done to really make the profession worth 66 skill points
You really should read what some merchants post here - and even if a tiny minority - they are a LOUD minority.
And *I* have merchant skills, but if you think this would be tough without vendors - nope - it would be pretty much impossible WITH them, but without them - and with only the tiniest bit of organization it's an all too real prospect.
I have read what the merchants have posted here. What you fail to see is that they had a *right* to complain. They knew it was a bug, they knew their profession was being abused, and not on a fair scale like every other profession. No other profession could be manipulated that way, and Merchant should not be an exception just because some people "want it". People being able to use vendors without the skill was unfair, and not intended, per SOE. Angry people are loud, no matter if they are the minority or not.
The flaw in your logic is that merchants are to blame because they complained, regardless of the fact they they did not make the decision to change it to the way it was always supposed to be. It's not as if SOE meant for you to have that ability all along, and merchants picketed SOE until they took it away from you. It was not meant to be yours to begin with. A fact that was well known, and addressed many times. If you chose not to believe that it would be fixed eventually, you still can't blame anyone but yourself.
I'm glad you have merchant skills. Good for you. There's still no threat to the players who work hard and run a successful business. Sorry, just not going to happen. I see people selling normally high priced items for dirt cheap everyday on auction, or spam yelling it at starports to try and corner the market by selling cheap. Sure, it may bring them business for awhile. But aftera very short time, they realize they can't. They simply do not take away solid business from the good crafters that people count on for quality and variety of constant stock, that they come back to again and again.
SeraphinAnnie wrote:
Wire3K wrote:
I have read what the merchants have posted here. What you fail to see is that they had a *right* to complain. They knew it was a bug, they knew their profession was being abused, and not on a fair scale like every other profession. No other profession could be manipulated that way, and Merchant should not be an exception just because some people "want it". People being able to use vendors without the skill was unfair, and not intended, per SOE. Angry people are loud, no matter if they are the minority or not.
The flaw in your logic is that merchants are to blame because they complained, regardless of the fact they they did not make the decision to change it to the way it was always supposed to be. It's not as if SOE meant for you to have that ability all along, and merchants picketed SOE until they took it away from you. It was not meant to be yours to begin with. A fact that was well known, and addressed many times. If you chose not to believe that it would be fixed eventually, you still can't blame anyone but yourself.
I'm glad you have merchant skills. Good for you. There's still no threat to the players who work hard and run a successful business. Sorry, just not going to happen. I see people selling normally high priced items for dirt cheap everyday on auction, or spam yelling it at starports to try and corner the market by selling cheap. Sure, it may bring them business for awhile. But aftera very short time, they realize they can't. They simply do not take away solid business from the good crafters that people count on for quality and variety of constant stock, that they come back to again and again.
I never said it was the merchants fault - what I said was the overriding attitude here has not been kind at all - and THAT would provide motivation in and of itself.
You think spamming at starportsis bad now? Those are most likely folks that aren't into selling very much and therefore aren't geared up for high production- or they are trying to get folks to their vendors. How many people that ARE running successful shops that this might effect that decide to prove a point would it take? And up to now, it's been a for profit motivation, the RIGHT and healthy motivation for an economy. This isn't about money.
The very fact that this change could ALLOW this to happen is the problem. The system was self-correcting before because either thru neglect or negligence the very design choice you are insisting is correct wasn't working. If it had been that way from release - nope, would never have happened - it's a very real possibility now, even without any other motive than folks looking to recoup SOME of their investments dumping what would otherwise be lost.
So they might be rallied to start to dump goods on the bazaar, but when the bazaar gets overloaded with page after page of useless weapons (many or with will be sup standard ones or zero contrition one, sole by scruple less persons) the player that just wand to play will stop using the bazaar.
If it keeps up fore more then a month SOE will properly start thinking about nerfing the bazaar as it is not longer fulfilling its purpose.
As for the real crafters... try getting the top armour smiths and weaponsmiths to sell thair wares for 6k per item. That will never happen, and so the lets will never start shopping on the bazaar.
Your spin a good tale wire3k, bit it is pure fiction and empty threats. It sounds a little too much like, you have a bruised ergo and is blaming merchants. But I could be wrong, but in that case you make no sense at all.