Medic Archive
Thread: Medic changes needed. Reposted here at Zarlok's suggestion
Below is the original post of the 8 page thread on the dev board. His suggestion was to take up the discussion here, see specifically what other medics think, and see if it's an issue worth bringing to devs by a correspondent.
So please, post what you think. I feel these changes, while seeming rough for medics on the surface (and certainly hard on doctor bank accounts), would actually drastically increase the grouping ability of medical professionals, those who plan to take up healing as a profession instead of a downtime reducer.
Some alternative solutions have also been presented, some of which are interesting. The link for the thread is here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=646964
Now now, before you docs and CMs flame me, read what I have to say. Because I am a master doctor.
Balancewise, I think doctors are pretty ok. I think Combat Medics need some tweaks (both up in power in some things and down in power in some other things). It's the Medic starting profession that's completely out of whack.
The whole problem boils down to medicine use. And I feel that this problem is critical in terms of game balance.
As a master doctor, I can make advanced Stimpack Bs that the average novice medic can use to completely heal himself, every time. I don't care how you spin it. That kind of power doesn't belong on novice healers in any game, period.
What I would like to see happen is a series of changes to the medicine use requirements of these packs. First, move the Stim B to 20 medicine use where it's supposed to be. It doesn't make sense to have the A and B both require 5, and then the C require 30.
Second, I'd like to see the medicine of a Stim B put at 50 if even one advanced component is used in its construction. This would completely take the Advanced Stim B out of the hands of anyone except a Master Medic or higher. Novices would still be able to use Doctor-crafted Stim As with around 100 base heal. To use a regular B or C, you'd need a good amount of pharmacology skill.
Please let me know what you think. If you don't like my idea, but agree that something needs to be done, I'd love to hear any alternative ideas.
Those of you who think medics are fine as is, please state your viewpoints too.
Caelrie wrote:
Oops, I guess that should have read "Zarlor", not "Zarlok". Sorry
That's why I just call him 'Z'. 
As for the issue, let me repost my first post in that thread...
The fact of the matter is that the B-Stim Med Use is a holdover from Beta. That's a fact, plain and simple.
Should it be raised now to be at 20 Med Use, even though it's been in-game this way since the start? That's a different question altogether.
I think B-Stims should be raised to 20 Med Use, and that the Advanced Components should NOT raise the med use, and that A-Stims should be universally useable the same way CDEF Weapons are.
I don't think A's should be everyoen though... makes a big chunk of novice medic wortless. (until you can make/use B's).
I can use a CDEF without skill (and a combat knife).. but I'm not going to hit anything (I'm not going to hit anything (but less so) at novice either).
If A's get passed down, there has to be a "non-cert" penalty of pretty significant proportions (1/4 heals?) Or else we put low level medics out of business.
Doing this at all, will open up all novice (for all profesions) skills to ganking... do we really want that? people dancing rythmic one (badly), people doing novice artisan stuff (badly)... yeah yeah.. you all want /ample /survey.
blegh.
-T
well you pinponted the main problem of medic line .
Pharmacology !!!
you have to get at least 3 pharmacology for it to be useful. i think you are correct in the claim that stim B should move to pharm 2 or 1 . but don't forget wound Bs. i can make wound B which are around 150+ power and can be used at novice medic. i think wound B should also move up the med use ladder to around pharmacology 3 or 4.
As far as WP B's... dont forget about the starting medic. I would say if they do get bumped, dont go past Pharm II, those starting Medics need as much help as they can get.
I don't want As to be opened up to everyone either. I figure if you want the healing abilities, pay the 15 points. Last thing we need is for bounty hunters to suddenly have the points to pick up both CH and then something like a whole line in pistoleer or the ranger tracking line.
Traigus wrote:
I'm personalyl in favoer of B's poping up (since it was a schematic revocation fix, and we don't ahve revocation).
I don't think A's should be everyoen though... makes a big chunk of novice medic wortless. (until you can make/use B's).
If A's get passed down, there has to be a "non-cert" penalty of pretty significant proportions (1/4 heals?) Or else we put low level medics out of business.
mosheg wrote:
but don't forget wound Bs. i can make wound B which are around 150+ power and can be used at novice medic. i think wound B should also move up the med use ladder to around pharmacology 3 or 4.
You're totally right, and thanks for pointing out that oversight. I almost never remember to figure in the woundpacks when I think of medic balance.
B medpacks should indeed move along with B stimpacks.
Well, let me add in that I do think granularity of our schematics is an issue. (Just so T knows I think it should be on his list.
)
My personal suggestion however, would be far less drastic than this proposal.
A couple of things to keep in mind here. Stim Bs are a HUGE money-maker for Docs. Stim As are a moneymaker for nobody.
I think that Stim As should be usable by anyone (not making the /healdamge command available to anyone, mind you, though.) Keeping in mind that with a +0 skill in Injury Treatment and Speed that perhaps they should have their own timer or that +0 should be a further penalty over what a Novice Medic does. Perhaps the timer falls to 15, instead of 10 seconds between uses. The base power should be considered halved for a non-novice medic. In that way even the absolute BEST Stim A, fully experimented with 1000-rated reosurces could only ever give a base heal of 50 (+/-whatever the variability % is, of course.) Meaning the best possible heal would be MAYBE 100, with pleny of possibilities fo 25 heals. That's just about useless if you ask me, but it could give a MUCH needed income source to Medics. The differences between a Doc-mad and a Medic Made Stim A really wouldn't be enough to make too huge of a difference so the competition for Medics would not be nearly as tough as it is in the Stim B market in that respect.
The arguments about giving everyone every skill.... well it's kind of what the game is like anyways. A certain amount of dabbling is almost encouraged. But a crappy heal like that probably isn't going to drop out a lot of dabblers, it just expands a market without making low level medics useless (that diag/FA rating counts for something, you know.)
Add in Stim Bs to the mix by upping thier Med Use to maybe 7-10. Keep in mind that generally speaking, in order to reduce the Med Use level of a Stim it seems to take about 1 EP per level lowered. So to it would take 3-5 EPs to drop the aforementioned Stim B down to a Med Use 5 level, meaning a whole lot less points going into experimentation of Base Heal levels. But you also still amek a Stim B usable by Novice Medics, not completely nerfing that level out of existence.
Then againI think Stim Cs should probably base out around 25-27 instead of 31, and Ds around 37-40 instead of 41. Es probably should be in Master Medic.
That would be a more even distribution without completely nerfing 2 professions in one (Docs losing out on one of the few money-makingopportunities they haveand any other professiontaking Novice Medic for the heals) and actually giving more of a boost to a third (by making Medics a little more valuable with their generally better healing abilities over Stim As and the lower-powered Stim Bs as well asgiving them a new market for Stim As.)
I really can't see how making a really bad Stim A available to anyone is some huge dilution of Medics, like the big fear seems to be (especially moreso amongst Docs, for some reason). I just don't see the convincing arguments for that line of reasoning yet.
Your suggestion (as usual) is well thought out Z, but you make 1 really bad judgement error.
Stim B's become almost impossible to sell as a MEDIC... Docs are al lset... but medics are hard pressed to give up those 3-5 EP's to make stim B's for novice's to use.
With A's useable by everyone (even at lower value)... A's become the only sale item for medics (because frankly they will be buried by Doc made B's.) and they really can't cost much.. because their gimped numbers aren't very valuable for non-medics.. even though they would give them an option to heal, when tey could not before... AND worthless to anyone that spent the 15 points... who an make their own A's.
Your plan works ok for Docs, but is highly untennable for medics.
Bumping B's up always hits the medics hard.. even though I really want them bumped for a balanced numbers reason.. I realize it would kill their ability to be sold usefully by the medics we are trying to help.
This raises the question of, 'should medics have any Items to sell at all, or should they be sellign te service?'
I'd be happy with a B bump, bet there would have to be a dsecent chance of medic income without B's... and for that we need an adjustment of player values... and that is harder to do then any game mechanic.
No matter how much I want B's to fit better into Pharm... I can't personally think of a way to do it that doesn't harm medics, as things stand now 
...
As always, it is still on the list (one you may see any day now ha ha).
-T
From reading this there are 2 possible choices in this matter governing Stimpack A and B.
Option 1
Stimpack A available to all to use
Stimpack B available at Novice Medic (Med use 5)
Option 2
Stimpack A available at Novice Medic (Med use 5)
Stimpack B available at Pharmacology II (Med use 12-14). This would allow the med use to be reduced to 10 (Pharm I)
The correct resource will greatly effect a Stim C & D base med usage before experimentation. I generally have not had to experiment on the base med usage of a C(30) or D(40) for quite some time.