Medic Archive

ok.. sorry if this is kind of haphazard.. they're older ideas i've had elsewhere i'm rehashing here.. and it's fairly involved.. but i think worth the effort

ok.. the general idea is to make the elite professions more of an extension of the Medic profession.. so please bear that in mind while reading the following

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Step 1:
concept:
give medics the full range of experimentation/assembly/use/effectiveness and give doctors their own versions of each of those skills and change doc schematics accordingly

reasons:
this would allow any 'Master Medic' to compete in the 'stim-B' market..
this would allow any 'Master Medic' to sucessfully complete the FS phase 1 healing quest w/o aid of a doctor to make the harder cures like swelling, internal bleeding and bloody cough

issues:
medicine experimentation/medicine assembly skillmod items may need a 'conversion process' so that doctors don't get the 'short end of the stick' no longer being able to use them for their doctor schematics

rough guideline:
in the medic branch double existing values of each of these skills
in the doctor branch double existing value of each skill then change skill to 'Doctor (SKILL)'

exceptions:
all 'stimpacks' to remain 'medicine use' thus stimpack E's and state stimpacks can be used by medics.. but not crafted (see below for state stim changes)

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Step 2:
adjust the 'medicine use' aspect of all medic stims to cover the full range of the skill alotted..

stim-A's can be used by anyone
Stim B's at medicine use 25
Stim C's at 50
Stim D's at 75
Stim-E's at 100

reasons:
everyone can aply a band-aid (or adhesive strip if you don't like brand names).. thus stim-a's become med-use 0
this will keep the 'stim-B' market alive for those who wish to 'dabble' in the medical profession
this will give combat medics the ability to heal as fast with non-ranged stimpacks as they are with ranged stimpacks

issues:
none forseen

exceptions:
not applicable

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Step 3:
move /healstate to 'master medic'

reasons:
EMT, Paramedics, Field Medics, etc. all have undergone first-aid and CPR training
smelling salts to cure dizzy..
eyewash to cure blind..
adrenaline shot to cure stun..
these are all pretty simple things one with only 'stabilization for transport skills' can do
and i'm sure someone could come up with a similar example for intimidate state

issues:
none forseen

exceptions:
while not specifically exceptions i wish to point out that poison/disease/fire cure i'm not suggesting get moved from the doctor tree to medic at this time

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ok that's the general idea.. numbers can be 'adjusted' if there is a specific issue with them.. those were just guidelines

any comments are genuinely appreciated..

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Issues that have to deal with #2 above

stim A's usable by anybody and stim Bs usable at 25....There is a little too much granularity here. Sim As at novice and stim Bs around 20 or so. I think the /healdamage command should stay at novice medic.

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ok how bout 20/40/60/80/100 for a/b/c/d/e respectively?

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Pahdbacca wrote:

As for the rest of the med useage for small stimpacks...... I think it should all stay at 50 or below. There is a dividing line between Master Medic and Doc right now. Docs stop worrying about damage healing and start concentrating on wounds. A master medic already has very meager abilities compared to a novice doctor. I think Medics should have the ability to use a damage stim as good as anybody else.

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in this proposition medics will get full range of the following skills (meaning up to 100 at master medic):

medicine assembly
medicine experimentation
medicine use

leaving all 'stimpack' items with 'medicine use'.. and moving other doctor made schematics to 'doctor use'.. thus any master medic can still use Stim-E's.. although they cannot craft them..
no visible change to master doctors.. improves medic ability

granting medics /healstate while requiring doctors to make state stimpacks..
no visible change to doctors.. improves medic ability

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Combat medics already heal with damage stimpacks just as fast as docs do, which is the same speed as a Master Medic. Experimentation continues from medic into Doctor, as does medical use. Damage treatment speed caps at master medic. Doctors get a new speed line, wound treatment speed. CMs get ranged treatment speed. CMs, by the way, cap at the same med use skill as master medics, unless they also earn doctor boxes. They begin using their own usage skill, CM med use, at Novice.

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ahh.. thought injury treatment speed went up to 100 somewhere in doc.. my mistake..

but yes.. this was designed to help master medic/Cm without penalizing Doc's.. by shifting some doc abilities down to medic level..
and to give master medics/Cm's the ability to compete in the stim market / finish new FS quests.. which they can not do on their own presently

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tangent:
ranged injury speed caps at 100.. injury speed caps at 75.. does this mean that CM's can heal faster with ranged stims than medics/docs can with normal stims?

off topic.. Thanks Pahdbacca.. i always know that the post next to your name is going to be 'good reading' 8)


-edited for readability sake

Message Edited by somerandomuser on 09-11-2004 08:23 PM

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somerandomuser wrote:

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Issues that have to deal with #2 above

stim A's usable by anybody and stim Bs usable at 25....There is a little too much granularity here. Sim As at novice and stim Bs around 20 or so. I think the /healdamage command should stay at novice medic.

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ok how bout 20/40/60/80/100 for a/b/c/d/e respectively?

---

Pahdbacca wrote:

As for the rest of the med useage for small stimpacks...... I think it should all stay at 50 or below. There is a dividing line between Master Medic and Doc right now. Docs stop worrying about damage healing and start concentrating on wounds. A master medic already has very meager abilities compared to a novice doctor. I think Medics should have the ability to use a damage stim as good as anybody else.

---

in this proposition medics will get full range of the following skills (meaning up to 100 at master medic):

medicine assembly
medicine experimentation
medicine use

leaving all 'stimpack' items with 'medicine use'.. and moving other doctor made schematics to 'doctor use'.. thus any master medic can still use Stim-E's.. although they cannot craft them..
no visible change to master doctors.. improves medic ability

In a sense, master medics can already use stim Es. My stim Es have a med use of 46 without experimentation in ease of use. Somewhere in the medic forums recently I posted a screenshot of Pip healing himself with a stimpack E (not a renged or area stim) for 2600 health. That is without any BE clothing on, and the only mods that CMs get for using those stims are the ones they get because they are master medics. All I'm trying to say is I don't know if transfering med use to medic only and making a new 'Doctor med use' is worth the trouble. If this came about, medics would lose the ability to use woundpack Cs (they can't make them, but can use them).

As for moving assembly and experimentation into medic....I'm all for it. Keep the crafting of stim Es for docs, but let medics run the stim B market. Good idea.

granting medics /healstate while requiring doctors to make state stimpacks..
no visible change to doctors.. improves medic ability

Personally, I have no problems with that (besides the fact that i think healstate should have gone to combat medics if medics didn't get it, but thats another discussion for another day)

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Combat medics already heal with damage stimpacks just as fast as docs do, which is the same speed as a Master Medic. Experimentation continues from medic into Doctor, as does medical use. Damage treatment speed caps at master medic. Doctors get a new speed line, wound treatment speed. CMs get ranged treatment speed. CMs, by the way, cap at the same med use skill as master medics, unless they also earn doctor boxes. They begin using their own usage skill, CM med use, at Novice.

---

ahh.. thought injury treatment speed went up to 100 somewhere in doc.. my mistake..

but yes.. this was designed to help master medic/Cm without penalizing Doc's.. by shifting some doc abilities down to medic level..
and to give master medics/Cm's the ability to compete in the stim market / finish new FS quests.. which they can not do on their own presently

Very well thought out. the only problem is I think the med use move is not needed.

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tangent:
ranged injury speed caps at 100.. injury speed caps at 75.. does this mean that CM's can heal faster with ranged stims than medics/docs can with normal stims?

We'll never know now. I think that it was 4 seconds for both (I may have a screenshot somewhere with the times in the combat spam. Recently though, all ranged throwing speeds were capped at 4 seconds as a quick fix to prevent CMs from throwing poisons with only a 1 second delay using havla. I can't remember testing if halva prevents ranged healing stims from being used every second. I suspect it does, but it is very rare that I would ever say 'Boy, I wish I could throw this 1k area heal faster than every 4 seconds.'

off topic.. Thanks Pahdbacca.. i always know that the post next to your name is going to be 'good reading' 8)

Thanks....I REALLY enjoy talking about this kind of stuff. It's unfortunate that I often feel my time is better spent fighting with trolls in the CM boards....and the bugaboo is, they are much less likely to listen to reason.


-edited for readability sake

Message Edited by somerandomuser on 09-11-2004 08:23 PM

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Pahdbacca wrote:

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somerandomuser wrote:

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Issues that have to deal with #2 above

stim A's usable by anybody and stim Bs usable at 25....There is a little too much granularity here. Sim As at novice and stim Bs around 20 or so. I think the /healdamage command should stay at novice medic.

---

ok how bout 20/40/60/80/100 for a/b/c/d/e respectively?

---

Pahdbacca wrote:

As for the rest of the med useage for small stimpacks...... I think it should all stay at 50 or below. There is a dividing line between Master Medic and Doc right now. Docs stop worrying about damage healing and start concentrating on wounds. A master medic already has very meager abilities compared to a novice doctor. I think Medics should have the ability to use a damage stim as good as anybody else.

---

in this proposition medics will get full range of the following skills (meaning up to 100 at master medic):

medicine assembly
medicine experimentation
medicine use

leaving all 'stimpack' items with 'medicine use'.. and moving other doctor made schematics to 'doctor use'.. thus any master medic can still use Stim-E's.. although they cannot craft them..
no visible change to master doctors.. improves medic ability

In a sense, master medics can already use stim Es. My stim Es have a med use of 46 without experimentation in ease of use. Somewhere in the medic forums recently I posted a screenshot of Pip healing himself with a stimpack E (not a renged or area stim) for 2600 health. That is without any BE clothing on, and the only mods that CMs get for using those stims are the ones they get because they are master medics. All I'm trying to say is I don't know if transfering med use to medic only and making a new 'Doctor med use' is worth the trouble. If this came about, medics would lose the ability to use woundpack Cs (they can't make them, but can use them).

ok.. 1st.. is that such a bad thing?? EMT's / paramedics / field medics etc can soocher, apply tournaquites (spelling?), use a defribulator (once again.. spelling?).. apply adrenaline shots.. insert IV tubes etc etc..
all of these skills are to stabalize patients for transport.. they are to 'stave off damage'.. not to repair wounds thus i think the use of woundpack C's and above should be reserved for doctors
representationally about the most wound treatment you'll recieve from someone other than a doctor is a few stitches or a cast from a nurse
summation 'medical support staff are there to stave off damage to allow the doctors to repair the wounds'
ok having said that.. i'd consider the option to allow wound C's to follow the suggested changes in a similar fashion as stimpack B's.. but i feel it best that they remain a doctor ability.. low in the doc tree.. like novice doc

As for moving assembly and experimentation into medic....I'm all for it. Keep the crafting of stim Es for docs, but let medics run the stim B market. Good idea.

thanks. i've been trying to get this sorted out for quite some time now.. but this idea was in the early drafts
granting medics /healstate while requiring doctors to make state stimpacks..
no visible change to doctors.. improves medic ability

Personally, I have no problems with that (besides the fact that i think healstate should have gone to combat medics if medics didn't get it, but thats another discussion for another day)

i must stress that as much as CM's NEED this ability.. i feel it's much better suited for medics all around.. especially in the current defense stacking FotM system.. would benefit so many people by avoiding the defense stack because they can simply stim off the effects.. i could be wrong.. but that's how i see it..

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Combat medics already heal with damage stimpacks just as fast as docs do, which is the same speed as a Master Medic. Experimentation continues from medic into Doctor, as does medical use. Damage treatment speed caps at master medic. Doctors get a new speed line, wound treatment speed. CMs get ranged treatment speed. CMs, by the way, cap at the same med use skill as master medics, unless they also earn doctor boxes. They begin using their own usage skill, CM med use, at Novice.

---

ahh.. thought injury treatment speed went up to 100 somewhere in doc.. my mistake..

but yes.. this was designed to help master medic/Cm without penalizing Doc's.. by shifting some doc abilities down to medic level..
and to give master medics/Cm's the ability to compete in the stim market / finish new FS quests.. which they can not do on their own presently

Very well thought out. the only problem is I think the med use move is not needed.

i still have to disagree.. primarily for consistancy
it's much easier for newer players to distinguish what items they can use by seeing 'medicine use' and 'doctor use' on each item.. in just 1 word they know if they're in the correct skillset.. many times had i tried to use my 33 med use statestims before i figured out i wasn't able to use them due to lack of access to /healstate

i'm also reluctant to agree because of the fact we're covering some relatively drastic changes here.. implementing 3 new skills for doctors.. doc use, doc experimentation, doc assembly.. and changing the medic skilltree to cover a much broader scale of their crafting ability

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tangent:
ranged injury speed caps at 100.. injury speed caps at 75.. does this mean that CM's can heal faster with ranged stims than medics/docs can with normal stims?

We'll never know now. I think that it was 4 seconds for both (I may have a screenshot somewhere with the times in the combat spam. Recently though, all ranged throwing speeds were capped at 4 seconds as a quick fix to prevent CMs from throwing poisons with only a 1 second delay using havla. I can't remember testing if halva prevents ranged healing stims from being used every second. I suspect it does, but it is very rare that I would ever say 'Boy, I wish I could throw this 1k area heal faster than every 4 seconds.'

use area stim A's more often.. you'll want to heal faster than once every 4 seconds 8p
seriously though.. drop me a note and remind me to find someone to test this with..

off topic.. Thanks Pahdbacca.. i always know that the post next to your name is going to be 'good reading' 8)

Thanks....I REALLY enjoy talking about this kind of stuff. It's unfortunate that I often feel my time is better spent fighting with trolls in the CM boards....and the bugaboo is, they are much less likely to listen to reason.


ugh /comfort..
i'm going thru my own dilema at the moment.. that i'm actually enjoying the forums more than the game.. and spending more time in the forums than game lately.. the game is starting to bore me.. the class i want to play just 'doesn't work'.. when i got the game.. i'd envisioned myself a CM.. on the line with my friends.. keeping them going till we got done what was done.. firing off shots when i wasn't healing.. but pistoleer wasn't quite strong enough for me to keep in funds.. tried carbineer.. didn't really do it either.. got sick of being only able to /mindheal 3-4 times before i was useless.. got more sick of myself when i realized i was avoiding using it.. picked up TK.. now i'm a 1/4 tank that only has 1 damage type.. went on a vette.. threw about 3 area stims the entire run.. and about 15+ state stims.. now i'm feeling just useless.. ugh.. made a couple alts.. got bored because they weren't what i'd wanted to be doing.. so my recent post frenzy has been making up for that whole emotional need to help out other people.. *sigh


-edited for readability sake

Message Edited by somerandomuser on 09-11-2004 08:23 PM

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I really like your ideas. I hope some other people give some feedback to them (although I suspect the medic forums doesn't get too much traffic) and that MasterNerfSlayer takes some of this back into the correspondent forums with him.

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new idea.. to add in somewhere to the medical skilltrees..

/diagnose

if you medicine use skill is (insert number here) or greater and you are w/in 5m of someone FD.. you have the option to see thru their feign and proceed to pummle them into the ground as you see fit

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somerandomuser wrote:
ok.. sorry if this is kind of haphazard.. they're older ideas i've had elsewhere i'm rehashing here.. and it's fairly involved.. but i think worth the effort

ok.. the general idea is to make the elite professions more of an extension of the Medic profession.. so please bear that in mind while reading the following

---

Step 1:
concept:
give medics the full range of experimentation/assembly/use/effectiveness and give doctors their own versions of each of those skills and change doc schematics accordingly

Already had discussions with the devs on this one, though I can't comment on the status at this time, it's something myself,the other medical correspondents and many other profession correspondents are all in favour of.

reasons:
this would allow any 'Master Medic' to compete in the 'stim-B' market..
this would allow any 'Master Medic' to sucessfully complete the FS phase 1 healing quest w/o aid of a doctor to make the harder cures like swelling, internal bleeding and bloody cough

issues:
medicine experimentation/medicine assembly skillmod items may need a 'conversion process' so that doctors don't get the 'short end of the stick' no longer being able to use them for their doctor schematics

rough guideline:
in the medic branch double existing values of each of these skills
in the doctor branch double existing value of each skill then change skill to 'Doctor (SKILL)'

exceptions:
all 'stimpacks' to remain 'medicine use' thus stimpack E's and state stimpacks can be used by medics.. but not crafted (see below for state stim changes)

---

Step 2:
adjust the 'medicine use' aspect of all medic stims to cover the full range of the skill alotted..

Expect this to be tinkered with in the Combat Revamp. Stim B's are way too powerful at their current med use andhas been on our list for a long time. Stim A will never be usable by less than a novice medic. There are food options for those who don't want to use stim's or take a medic a long.

Think of it like this. Novice medic training is what your mum would teach you, with a few other things added in. Once you know how to do it, you're a novice medic whether you like it or not. Of course, in this game for balance reasons you can "forget" how to be a novice medic. In order to remember your skills in real life, you need to practice regularly. This is represented by the consumption of skill points. You may remember how to apply bandaid without practice, but the crafting of bio effect controllers you probably wont. If you forget, and someone gives you a refresher course, consider that the reallocation of the 15 skill points.

stim-A's can be used by anyone
Stim B's at medicine use 25
Stim C's at 50
Stim D's at 75
Stim-E's at 100

reasons:
everyone can aply a band-aid (or adhesive strip if you don't like brand names).. thus stim-a's become med-use 0
this will keep the 'stim-B' market alive for those who wish to 'dabble' in the medical profession
this will give combat medics the ability to heal as fast with non-ranged stimpacks as they are with ranged stimpacks

issues:
none forseen

exceptions:
not applicable

---

Step 3:
move /healstate to 'master medic'

Heal state in my opinion is too powerful to be a medic item. Think of it as the actuall command you receive in the doc tree as your practising license to use heal state cures. In games like this you don't get the option to actually practise with the item you're going to use, you're just assumed to be using it and having a fail rate that is too high to be used practically in a real life situation. Noone wants to be healed by a medic that isn't fully competent with a cure. The skill box that gives you healstate is saying at that point you are recognised as being able to use it effectively on real patients with an acceptable failure rate.

I realise this isn't quite how real life works, but it's the best way to emulate it in a game without making people do boring taks. Think of it like uncertified weapons, and how they only do 10 points of damage and miss a lot until you're certified, just that there is no option to do that with stims. The idea of a medic in star wars does not necessarily map to a real life medic either, so while I understand your argument, this is done primarily for game balance.

reasons:
EMT, Paramedics, Field Medics, etc. all have undergone first-aid and CPR training
smelling salts to cure dizzy..
eyewash to cure blind..
adrenaline shot to cure stun..
these are all pretty simple things one with only 'stabilization for transport skills' can do
and i'm sure someone could come up with a similar example for intimidate state

issues:
none forseen

exceptions:
while not specifically exceptions i wish to point out that poison/disease/fire cure i'm not suggesting get moved from the doctor tree to medic at this time

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ok that's the general idea.. numbers can be 'adjusted' if there is a specific issue with them.. those were just guidelines

any comments are genuinely appreciated..

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While the ideas are certainly not new ones, I'm just grateful for your particpation in the community here.

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somerandomuser wrote:
new idea.. to add in somewhere to the medical skilltrees..

/diagnose

if you medicine use skill is (insert number here) or greater and you are w/in 5m of someone FD.. you have the option to see thru their feign and proceed to pummle them into the ground as you see fit

---

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

I've been mentioning this stuff for quite a while, counters and uses that enable players to get through feign death.

Normally I attribute them to Jedi, Bounty Hunters and Smugglers. Medics is only one more logical step after that. As those are elite/hybrid/rare professions I'd be very cautious of having such an ability within the medic skill tree as opposed to doctor or combat medic.

The fail rate can be based of course on the skill of the smuggler involved and the skill of the doctor. We all know though, that doctor is a heavily comboed profession. It's everywhere, so if it is allowing that protection of feign death to be stripped so commonly, the usefulness of the skill on our part grows less.

I would exercise great caution here, or we're going to have even more ticked smugglers.

Feign Death has many short-comings as it is. Posture Up attacks have been used in the past to pull us out of feign status. It is also the only skill where the user is actively griefed upon use.

Steps will need to be taken to make it useful in a more detailed sense before adding more abilities to strip whatever protection remains.

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Hmmm yes given the way this game works it's probably a skill better suited to Doctor than medic, especially given the skill point requirement to actually get the feign command. I imagine this skill would have a fairly high fail rate and a high re-use timer if it was implemented, to make it so that there is simply a chance, not a high chance of detecting a feign.

I also imagine that with the changes to buffs that many people who are docs will no longer remain docs and move on, thus lowering the population of people who can detect feign, but only time will tell.