Medic Archive
Thread: Factioned Healing
Sorry Elenora, you posted as I was writing mine 
I think the issue of having neural medics in groups of coverts may have to be resolved by having a 'Group Faction' so that everyone in that group can be declaired a covert/overt faction, depending on the leaders choice. Therefore the medic is equally a target, even if they are neutral, they joined a factioned group.
If they dont like it, they can leave, or the group can only be formed if all members agree and are not overt.
Maybe a situation arises where covert rebels could join covert imperial groups, but then it should be thier choice, if they are aware they are imperial, they should leave, otherwise, they can stay, kill some rebels and they would loose faction points. Their choice.
In RL its mob mentality, if a group of rebels rushed me and starting killing my friends, I wouldn't assess them individually and say "Yep, I can kill you, you, you, oops, not you because your neutral, you, you..." They are a group of rebels, and if neutrals are involved then its thier choice, and they take the concequences with them.
Elenora wrote:
All you arguments based on reality are valid arguments for why neutrals should be able to heal anyone. However, the issue here is not reality, but how to prevent exploiting this.
As many people have mentioned, you cannot heal overts unless you are overt or covert. Coverts getting tags for healing. This is all to prevent exploitation. If neutrals could heal anyone, then there would never be a need to join a faction for a medic. Furthermore, this could be exploited so that neutral could go on raids with overts and heal wihtout fear of death.
The problem with idea of neutrals getting TEFs for heaing overts is that so what. Being neutral with a TEF and getting killed loses you nothing except a trip to a clone center and maybe a few wounds. Factioned players lose faction points when killed by enemy factions, hence there is a risk to getting a TEF. If i could PvP and not worry losing facton points by staying neutral I would most definately do that with my overt friends. So all in all even with a TEF, its not a huge deal for neutrals.
As for coverts healing enemy coverts...the thing is you'll never "know" if the other person is a covert. If they are covert without TEF, there is no way of telling them apart from another neutral player. The only way you would know was if you knew the person to be a rebel, I.E. you've seen him overt. So the whole issue of im a covert and ur a covert of the enemy faction is moot, cuz you'll never know...
The final point remains the issue of perks for joining factions. Join factions offers certain perks. Even more if you are overt. Don't think of being not being able to heal overts as a neutral to be a nerf. Just consider being able to heal a overt as a perk of being covert/overt.
All good points, and they do make sense in the game mechanics of the world, don't get me wrong. I just think it should be possible to be a "red cross" type of medic, and I honestly wouldn't mind having added penalties to balance things out. Don't get me wrong. I do understand what you are saying. However, it becomes very hard to IC-ly justify my character's position on "treatly every patient with respect" when half the patients are beyond your care.
Just my opinion, though. 
The way I see it, its quite simple:
Neutral & Covert = Heal Anyone
Cover = Heal only faction
"And as for not having to worry about overts, its easier to keep your cover...if neutrals could heal overts, then youd have to let coverts heal overts as well..and not just same faction overts but enemy overts as well. Cuz if neutralscould heal overts and coverts could not...then covert covers would be blown as soon as the doc said sry i can't heal you. Then the patient would know that the doc wasn't a neutral and was really an enemy covert"
Yeah, I agree, but the key thing here is choice! Only the player knows that they are covert, so if a covert rebel wants to heal an overt imperial, then more the fool them. Even if a message box pops up recommending not to, they still should be given the choice.
group faction would be interesting...but highly exploitable...
What if i was a overt, then joined a grp that declared it was neutral would I be safe from enemy attacks?
If so, I could be say a imperial overt, group with another imp overt...declare our grp neutral..run to a rebel city...be safe from attacks because im in a "neutral grp" then running around until I find a lone rebel..then pop out of grp...which i assume would set me back to overt capable...then kill the lone reb regrp and be neutral and safe from retaliation?
or better yet whats to stop me from runnign around as a neutral grp then switching to imperial killig a rebel and switching back...once again say since im in a "neutral' grp...
It can get awfully exploitable...
personal Faction healing is fine the way it is...its just neutrals whining about things they cant do cuz they are undeclared...there are perks as well as drawbacks to joining a faction...suck up and deal...
Elenora wrote:
group faction would be interesting...but highly exploitable...
What if i was a overt, then joined a grp that declared it was neutral would I be safe from enemy attacks?
If so, I could be say a imperial overt, group with another imp overt...declare our grp neutral..run to a rebel city...be safe from attacks because im in a "neutral grp" then running around until I find a lone rebel..then pop out of grp...which i assume would set me back to overt capable...then kill the lone reb regrp and be neutral and safe from retaliation?
or better yet whats to stop me from runnign around as a neutral grp then switching to imperial killig a rebel and switching back...once again say since im in a "neutral' grp...
It can get awfully exploitable...
personal Faction healing is fine the way it is...its just neutrals whining about things they cant do cuz they are undeclared...there are perks as well as drawbacks to joining a faction...suck up and deal...
Easily fixed. Group faction should not be determined by the players, but by the percentage of faction in a group. Only a group that is 100% neutral/covert should be able to be considered neutral. If a player attacks, the group switches to that faction's alignment, with all players in the group following normal PvP rules, hence protecting neuts from getting killed from being with a covertand allowing attacked players to fight back against aggressors.
Another point. The point of implementing the TEFs would not be to lose faction, but to eliminate the continued healing in a PvP situation. If you are neut and healing an Imp while the Imp attacks a Reb, the fighter should be allowed to kill the neut, not to hurt the neut's standing but to be able to properly defend him/herself. That in itself would be the thing to balance it out. Since it would be available to both sides to use neuts, I don't think it would unbalance the playing field much.
Again, we're all just talking theory here. We actually have no choice but to "suck up and deal", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying to make the system better. For now though, I will continue to tell all my patients that if they want my healing,they leave the war at the door.
thing is that even if the neutral gets killed there is really nothing the healer loses...
as it is now..if a covert heals an overt and the covert gets killed, they lose faction..
that makes it risky to die...as a neutral you get a free trip to the clone facility and thats it...and with the current auto insurance in..its not even a naked trip
Actually, (and maybe this will make sore sense) but my concern is not truly with healing during a fight, as you are right that that has way too many loopholes to be exploited. I'm talking about when I'm in a hospital, and patients come in. If they are overt, no healing done, and not in a PvP situation. I agree that anyone other than a matching faction should be able to heal someone during combat.
Keep in mind, I'm more used to AO's PvP zone rules, but if the target is not attacking anything or being attacked, you should be able to heal them, regardless of faction.
I think overts should have a 30 min flag. When they are flagged they can only be healed by same faction members..but outside of that flag, they can be healed by ne1...
I think this would be a good solution...
no neutral heal exploits and neutrals can heal, just not in a situation where it could effect PvP, since youd have to be out of PvP (even with NPCs) for 30 mins...this should be enuff for a cooling off period.
Elenora wrote:
I think overts should have a 30 min flag. When they are flagged they can only be healed by same faction members..but outside of that flag, they can be healed by ne1...
I think this would be a good solution...
no neutral heal exploits and neutrals can heal, just not in a situation where it could effect PvP, since youd have to be out of PvP (even with NPCs) for 30 mins...this should be enuff for a cooling off period.
I completely agree. 
Last night I grouped with members of my PA to get some faction points, they were all already factioned where I wasn't. Next thing I know, were in combat with some rebels and my friends are taking damange and it says "It would be unwise to help this person"
WHAT??!!
I could understand it if I was a covert imp trying to help a covert reb, but not whenmembers are grouped together. I mean, whats the point of being covert if you can be ratted out when you try to heal someone from the other faction?
Turns out, the whole night as a medic, I was essentially useless as I couldn't heal the wounds of my friends and couldn't help them in a fight. Personally I feel that a medic should be able to heal ANYONE, regardless of faction. A medics fuction is to heal, not to judge. Its like a doctor refusing to help a mass murderer! You may not like them, but they still need your help. Even in WW2 doctors from both sides were healing the wounded.
Simply put, when the factions and opionions come down, we are all the same, just people needing help, and medics should see them that way rather than to refuse service.