Medic Archive
Thread: Making medic's lives easier
Regards,
Artuk
I would highly recommend staying away from option two, the part about taking bf/mind wounds away from medic works.
If you do that, you'll end up with the only proffesion in the game that can practice it's trade and not require entertainers to heal from, and I for one enjoy the breaks in the work. I 'm all for choice 1, seeing as right now medicinal forage is worthless. Come on guys, you have a craft system that requires all units of one part to be the same thing, yet you find stuff in groups of 1, and never the same thing twice? Somethins wrong there.
Ok I didnt advance far as medic in beta but as live went in I am doing this field. Here are my suggestions,views.
1. A Food/chem station NEEDS to be in the hosptial, its so inconvenient to run of out meds and have to leave and come back when can stay healing patient. Sure we can craft anywhere but lose alot without those stations.
2. Need an ability to diagnose ALL wound types.
3. Medical forage is a joke at best, current idea is not bad Holo
4. I have made ALL of my meds, but it says something is wrong when I have levelled 6 healing skills yet only 2 crafting skills. Or was it meant to be this way?
5. Dont mind interdepenance but needed water, plus a chem,plus organics,plus inorganics at lvl II org chem is very time consuming.
6. Need somne signs on walls to sit at BEDS to regen, I never noticed this in beta but the auto regen only seems to work when on beds, and also some have trouble sitting on them
7. Remove 80% of the NPC's in hosptial unless they are nurse,doctor types. Just too crowded as is
8. What happened to the rent a doc? Some of the newbies have no color at all in HAM bar because they werent told about cloning or havent been able to afford it, while this has levelled us up greatly , cant but feel these guys may feel disatified with downtime ingame and think is way it always is, and most docs wont tell them how to clone because, the well of patients will dry up.
9. Docs are also the poorest profession as by the time they tip a dancer, who was exciting too watch, no one seems to want to tip Docs, as this is a boring thing to sit in hospital. Not sure what can be done around it but this was worsty self supporting profession I have played. All others have something tangible to sell and medics cant even afford to buy timpaks from another.
Thats all for now but we need some help!..
6. Need somne signs on walls to sit at BEDS to regen, I never noticed this in beta but the auto regen only seems to work when on beds, and also some have trouble sitting on them
I have had the regen work fine standing anywhere in a hospital, post release.
Regards,
Artuk
I hope you do not implement any changes to medic profession. Its fine now.
I didn't make beta, but I chose the medical profession when I picked up my copy of the game last weekend. Since then, I have found this class to be a series of trials and errors with very, very, VERY little comprehensive information as to this class readily available. If anything is difficult to a newbie... this might be it.
That being said, now that I've figured some things out, and have others yet to learn, I have to say that I absolutely adore the sideline Artisan requirements because it makes this class more diverse. Although healing is what I wanted to do, it's a thrill to have something else to compliment the craft. I haven't seen any reason to believe that someone can "Gimp" their character by "Spreading themselves too thin" with class combinations so, other than it taking a bit longer for those involved in several skills to get to the senior professions... I don't see any problems with your system as it stands here.
One very, VERY huge problem as I see it is the way mind damage is being handled. Whether the medical professional is in the lab or out in the field, the damage taken here is huge and there is no reprieve. Sadly I haven't yet figured out how to use Medpacks or Stims even though I've tried countless times from inventory or hotkeys or sheer typed commands... I keep getting errors "no medicine found" even though I've made absolutely every medical/pharma tool available to me at this time and they're all in my inventory/hotkey menu. The only thing that is working are the tend commands or the typed /tendwound health *or* action.
That being said... the delay for /tend commands are pretty substantial as it is. 20 seconds I believe... but even longer than that, perhaps another 20 seconds or so we're waiting for enough mind pool to recast the ability. It's almost a minute between casts in the medical lab for /tendwound... on the field the quick heals are slightly better but still very, very inefficient.
What absolutely blows my mind, is that while we have the ability to heal short and long term damage to action and health... there doesn't seem to be any class that can augment mind damage on the bar itself. Entertainers can only heal the black area, but don't seem to effect the depletion areas whatsoever, even in Cantenas.
To me, it would make sense to help another class at the same time as helping ours. Entertainers should be able to play music, perhaps different kinds of music, depending on the situation so that party members can have mind DEPLETION augmented, in any area of the game. It's kind of sad that they are limited only to the Cantenas right now... it would be neat to hire one out of a Cantena to take on a battle mission so that they can contribute by regenerating mind pools faster than regularly.
In summary, at least from my perspective...mind regenerationis the only area that needs fixing at this time.
Avari_Elleyne wrote:One very, VERY huge problem as I see it is the way mind damage is being handled. Whether the medical professional is in the lab or out in the field, the damage taken here is huge and there is no reprieve. Sadly I haven't yet figured out how to use Medpacks or Stims even though I've tried countless times from inventory or hotkeys or sheer typed commands...
That's because you're tending wounds when you should be healing them. Or maybe there's something wrong with your mind stats. Did you start of as a medic, or did you add medic later. If the latter, you might need to migrate your stats a bit.
Avari_Elleyne wrote:
I keep getting errors "no medicine found" even though I've made absolutely every medical/pharma tool available to me at this time and they're all in my inventory/hotkey menu.
That usually means you're out of range. Are you sure you're sitting very close to your target?
Overall, this seems a simple solution...
1) Create a NEW item (Bandages, anyone!?) that is creatable from say, 1 organic, 1 inorganic... Let it heal about 1/4 to 1/2 as well as a stimpak A, and reduce BF damage to medics proportional to the level of tool used in the healing. No tool = most BF, max tool = no BF...
2) /agree on altering medical forage to only give items USEABLE to the medic... else, why is it callled, MEDICAL forage?
Thanks!
You are much better off using the crafted medecines.
You do need to be quite close when you try to use them though.
The /heal commands should automatically use a stim/wound pack charge to heal. If you are getting the 'No valid medecine' result it will mean you are too far from your patient if you do indeed have the correct medecines.
The time between stimpack uses will reduce as you improve in the one of the medical disciplines (the one with treatment speed in it, First Aid IIRC). Whichever one it is the other one improves the effectiveness of each use.
Wound healing will remain slow until you start getting the wound treatment speed increases from the Doctor tree.
Most of this if from memory so don't shoot the messenger if i'm a bit out. As I've only just started the medic again after going live.
Going back to the mind issue, if you use packs the amount you get hit for each heal is substantially lower and you incur no wounds at all.
Once you start using stim and wound packs you should be fine.
I havent read the whole thread. only 4 or so pages.
I Dislike Greatly the idea of being forced to forage to get more items.
I think the fact i spent 3 to 4 hours a day working as an artisan is punishment enough.
Not to mention now to make the higher quality items i need to travel to 6 planets to get supplies. I would have to quit my full time job to play as a medic if you add more stuff, and i really cant afford to quit my job.
I have been enjoying the medical line greatly. I think the doctor line is fine and good the way it is. altough i can get all 3 lines of healing done easily before the crafting line. I trully shudder at how mnay meds i will have to craft for the 2nd through 4th lvls. but thats another story.
dont make medical forage more painful.
It would be
Ciberido,
Like I said, I must be doing something very wrong... then again I'm not exactly an un-intuative player, nor is this anywhere close to my first MMORPG...
ciberido wrote:
That's because you're tending wounds when you should be healing them. Or maybe there's something wrong with your mind stats. Did you start of as a medic, or did you add medic later. If the latter, you might need to migrate your stats a bit.
Like I said, I've tried /healwound, and nada. The ONLY command in a med center that works for me is the /tendwound command. Yes, I started as a medic, and yes, my statistical mind mitigation was fine, and continues to be almost 3 times the length of my health bar, and twice the length of my action bar, so I chose not to migrate my stats.
ciberido wrote:
That usually means you're out of range. Are you sure you're sitting very close to your target?
My target was myself... I don't believe I can get much closer than that. Obviously, since they don't work on myself, they won't work on others either.
So ultimately, I'm either doing something very wrong... or...? Sadly, as I said before, without much supportive documentation pretty much everything I've learned so far is through trial and error, and through talking with other Meds. Mind you, considering that Med Centers, Med Droids, and Camps aren't always around when a Medic is required (say... in the field or within the Cantena), Mind wounds are still of some substantial concern... at least as far as I see it.
Why does the phrase, "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" come to mind?
The two proposals are trivial changes to a system that needs significant changes. Let me ask the dev's two questions..
1. In RL does your doctor go out into the wilderness searching for the ingredients to make his medicines and spend most of his/her time searching and making?
2. In RL does your doctor work for tips.
Change these two things and don't waste your time on the petty stuff.
STARTING AS A MEDIC
It is important to understand the difficulties a player faces when starting as a novice medic. After choosing the medic profession, there several ways a medic can heal wounds and damage.
- Harvest resources (requires scout) craft themselves
- Sample for resources (requires artisan) buy surveying tools (requires money)
- Buy resources (requires money)
- Buy pre made medicine (requires money)
- Use tend (no additional requirements)
- Looking at the above list it becomes apparent there is only one choices with no additional requirements, tend.
TEND WOUND
Tend is an excellent concept, the current implementation of tend is extremely beneficial to the game because of the mind wounds and battle fatigue it incurs. Giving medics mind wounds and battle fatigue forces them, to at some point, leave the hospital and seek entertainment. Without this penalty medics using tend could sit in the hospital for extremely long periods of time and die of boredom.
Tend requires no resources or crafting, it heals any type of wound and damage. Normally only action and health wounds would be easily accessible. The major problem with tend is the excessive wounds and battle fatigue in produces and high mind cost.
Allowing medicalforage to become useful in maintain tend, which would only be used in emergencies after a medic has the ability to obtain class B and above kits. Embrace the independence tend gives medics and encourage the steps being suggested to improve its usefulness.
That said lets get a few more things out of the way.
MISONCEPTIONS
There appears to be a misconception that novice medics are supposed to heal wounds adequately and that wound occurrence and healing should be based on how well a novice medic heals, with medicine crafted themselves. This is not the case!
Any medic worth their salt is using wound pack B or C’s, unless absolutely necessary, and by that I mean none are available on the bazaar at a reasonable price and there are no chemists around to craft more.
Novice medics should not be crafting stem pack A’s and wound pack A’s to advance medicine crafting. Instead they should be crafting the sub components required to build class B meds. Each class B medicine requires 3 subcomponents; the subcomponents give the same amount of experience as crafting class A meds and require 4 less resources in some cases!
Don’t use the bazaar to sell your crafted subcomponents hang around the medical center and sell them to other players, keep a few on bazaar for when you are not around in person. Advertise your wares and services to other medicine crafters, any smart medic will happily jump at the offer of having to do less crafting.
Novice Medics get no skills to improve wound healing speed or effectiveness. They are not designed to heal wounds effectively they are designed to heal the adequately. That is why Medics have access to advanced medicine but are not allowed to craft it themselves, such as Class D and E meds.
Medic wound healing rate is fine, if not a little fast. It does not need decreasing medics are not supposed to be expert wound healers, they are expert damage healers. First aid and Diagnostics improve damage healing efficiency and speed not wounds. Medics are a support class, they are best played with a combat roll also, helping to reduce down time and how long a group can stay in the wild.
Medics need improvement and well informed before they fulfill the role they were intended to play. They do not need to be made easier people need to play them smarter!
Lets Examine the current system.
Class A wound kits heal up to 25 wounds and are crafted in packs of 11 using good resources.
If you don’t know what good resources are please examine more closely the schematics and resources you are using, the schematic explains which resource attribute is required to improve either the charges or effectiveness of the medicine, resources when examined inform the user how high a quality in each attribute it is. These numbers rage from 1-1000
Class B wound kits heal around 25-65 and come in packs of 19-22 using good resources and experimentation. I have not crafted any class C meds yet but imagine they are significantly better. Only using class B kits someone who has forgotten to clone several times can be healed in less than 8 minutes. Any novice medic, without ANY skill boxes researched can use class B kits.
This means downtime has no need to be high and wounds should occur significantly more before doctors become truly effective. Hopefully high level planets have creatures that incur more wound damage to solve this lack of need.
HOW TO EARN MEDICINE CRAFTING XP
The answer is not to churn out Class A meds, its subcomponents.
Class B wound kits require 24 resources and 3 subcomponents each of the subcomponents yields the same crafting XP as class A action and health wound kits and should be made and sold by low level chemists instead of ‘grinding’ crappy wound kits. “But I can’t find anyone to buy them.” Look harder every high level chemist I have spoken to detests the amount of crafting required to make the good medicine.
The reason they are getting so tired of it, is because they aren’t supposed to be making the subcomponents low level chemists are! One of the major factors that people are not creating these sub components is nobody wants to buy over priced components.
How much are 6 inorganic and 6 organic resources worth? What’s more, how much are crappy sub components worth? I’m referring to items that have had no experimentation done on them and are crafted with low quality materials (overall quality is the main attribute of most medicine). More than 50 credits is no doubt too much, though determining the correct price is extremely hard but is vital to a player driven economy.
DIAGNOSE
Another issue that is constantly brought up is this issue with a /diagnose command. Being all for the diagnose command at one time, here is the reason I discovered that it does not need to be in the game.
If there are secondary wounds to strength, constitution, agility, quickness tend wound requires the user to declare which wound it should heal. It becomes annoying, that may be a good thing. Tend wound is not intended to be a reliable method of healing secondary wounds.
Would kits are craft-able for healing these secondary stats, buy them, use healwound they will be healed automatically, problem solved.
Can’t make them yet? Find someone who can, they should be happy to earn some cash and actually sell their craft-able’s. Don’t let them charge much more than a standard health or action kit however, they require exactly the same amount of resources.
THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN FIXING THE MEDIC CLASS
- Medics are not wound healers. It should be hard for them to heal wounds. Battle fatigue and mind wounds are an excellent method of exhibiting this fact. More advanced packs would incur less wounds / battle fatigue and tend wound would cause the most.
- Keep the wounds very low but high enough to get medics out of the hospital at least once an hour. Hospitals heal mind wounds right? So being in a hospital would reduce the effects, or eliminate them and only incur battle fatigue. If ER is any example of doctors in a hospital battle fatigue is a very appropriate .
- Tend should not be too convenient, forcing someone to communicate which wound needs healing, or guessing and wasting mind points is appropriate for such a novice skill.
- Doctors are the ones that wounds need to be tuned towards not novice medics using Health Wound Kit – A.
I hope that this post was found helpful, constructive and informative
-Deltek Novice doctor on Lowca