Medic Archive

I did a bunch of experimentation with Stimpack Bs and Cs yesterday to try and get into the nuts and bolts of how it works. My conclusion is that it is not worth the time to experiment with Bio Energy Controllers or Chem Release Devices but it is worth the time on Liquid Suspension and the final Stimpacks. All of these were done by a medic with OC-4 at a public chemical crafting station with very high grade resources, if your experimentation or resources are higher or lower than that then you can expect somewhat better or worse results. Lastly, most of the numbers below are going to be consistent +/-1.

Each of the three components will produce an item with a charges and a power rating. These ratings will be added to a base number to give the number for the final, unexperimented stim. For a stim B, the base number for charges is 18 and the base number for power is 105. For Stim C, charges is 23 and power is 170. Again, all of this is before experimenting on the Stimpack itself, is based on OC-4 and exceptional quality resources, and is +/-1.

Bio Energy Controller: This is the only component that affects the charges of the Stim. If you do not experiment, the BEC will come out with a Power of 3 and a Charges of 2. With 5 experiment points, your experimentation results on power will likely range from 2-6 and on charges from 1-5. In other words, if you experiment with this you can get a maximum of 3 points/heal and 3 extra charges, but if you are unlucky then you could also end up losing almost as much. You would probably average a +1 charge which, in my opinion, it is not worth the trouble. Perhaps with more experimenation points it would be, but even then I'm highly doubtful.

Chemical Release Device: This only gives power, not charges. The base power is generally 4. Experimentation with 5 points yeilds a final number of 1-11 with an average of 6. In my opinion, +2 healing is not worth the trouble.

Liquid Suspension: This one is better. The base here is 15/0 and with 5 experimentation points I get a range of 5-34 and an average of 20. But I am able to get 34, which seems like the maximum, a good 30% of the time. If you are making packs for yourself and to sell or give away, you can keep the 34s and let someone else have the occassional 5. +19 healing is worth it for me, especially since it will hopefully get even higher with the final product.

So, if you do no experimentation on any components you will get a Stim-B with 20 charges and a healing power around 128; or a Stim-C with 25 charges and a healing power around 192. If you only experiment on the Liquid Suspension then you will have a Stimpack B with 20 charges and a power of 118-147; or a C with 25 charges and a power of 182-211. If you experiment on all three, you will create a Stimpack B with 19-23 charges and a power of 115-154; or a C with 24-28 charges and a healing power of 179-218.

I don't have the same kind of data on experimenting on the final product but my advice is DO IT! On Stim-Cs it will come out at a base 32 medicine use requirement and two experiment points is usually enough to get it to 30 so it can be used with Pharm-3 (1 point has never worked for me and a 3rd point is usually only required about 10% of the time). I would suggest using the rest for the power, experimenting charges will only give you 2-4 more. When you experiment with power occassionally you will have a really ugly failure and you will lose ca. 10% of the healing power, but you are much more likely to succeed and get a 20-33% boost to the power numbers above. And that number will be higher if you are using Stim-B or have Pharm-4 and therefore don't need to use two points on medicine use. With my skills and resources, I average around 250 healing power from a Stim-C. Not counting the critical failures on initial construction, of course. As far as I can tell those are completely random.

Okay, that's what I know. I am going to try an experiment on woundpacks this weekend but I'm guessing that due to the much lower base numbers it is worth it to experiment on all components in that case.

Scorus

I find that BEC charges are major in determining charges...and must be experimented on...

Have doc crafting 2...My stim Bs hav 22-24 charges and 170-190 heal value...

Cs have 30-34 charges and 270-290 heal value...

when i dont do well on experimenation on the components I find a huge lass of quality in the pack..

but i do agree that BEC detemines the charges...liquid sus is the major heal value component...

I dont think its a simple addition formula for the effectiveness..

I think its more exponential or multiplicative...

so +2 on a component will have a huge effect...

thats just my experience

Elenora, you are welcome to your opinion but I took three pages of stats and they confirm a very simple formula. Remember that is BEFORE you experiment with the final product and it assumes that you are using the same resources every time, if you are using a variety of resources then the formula will look more complex than it actually is. And if you use your Stim experimentation points on charges then the final number will vary greatly, I was just talking about the base numbers derived from the components.

Next time you make 10 Stims, jot down the charges number on the post-experimentation BEC and the charges of the pre-experimentation Stim. I think you will see a direct correlation, +/-1.

Scorus

lol im not discounting your statistics...just telling you my experiences..im not really into number crunching and taking stats...

could be my extra experiment points or higher crafting that accounts for the difference in our packs...

tehre is also the issue of materials...

Scorus,

The big question is, what was the Maleability of your resources? If you are only averaging an increase of +1, statistically, on most of your experimentation after using your 5 points, then I would suggest looking at the maleability of your resources. They may simply not be high enough to make experimenting worthwhile because of the failure rate. Higher Mal=Higher Experimentation Success and could greatly affect the numbers you are seeing.

Also, I find that getting an artisan you trust to make you a 92+% effective Food & Chem Tool will also reduce your failure rates. It's not something you can see when Examining the item, but if they can experiment one to be that good for you it does seem to provide some benefit. (All these variables!)

Finally, in my experience, the more expermentation points you ahve (and thereby the higher your crafting skill) the generally more successes you will have as well. You not only have more points to experiment with but you are also a better experimenter. So a Doc with level 4 med crafting will probably find it more useful to experiment in a situation in which experimenting as a level 4 Org Chmist may not be useful.

Zarlor: Why Malleability? Meds all use 57% Overall Quality; 28% Potential Energy and 14% Toughness. The resources I used were:

Organic: OQ:994; PE:736
Inorganic: OQ:964; Tough:455
Chemical: OQ:901; PE:213
Water: OQ:809

Which brings up a lot of questions: Is it better to use a Chemical with a low PE or a chemical with no PE rating, like Lube Oil? Does the absence of a PE rating factor in a 0 or does it ignore it and just go with the Organic PE rating? How about if none of the resources I used have a Toughness rating, does that factor in a 0?

Scorus

ouch my head hurts...i just throw stuff into my tool box...press a button here and there and hope fore the best...too much thinking going on in this thread now

Absolutely, I don't doubt that experimentation is more likely to be worthwhile as you have more experimentation points to spend. I would be interested to hear how much variation in BEC charge rating one can achieve if they have 7 or 9 or however many experimentation points to pump it up. But since I'm headed toward BE and not Doc or CM, I've probably got as many as I will ever have.

Scorus

I have also done some experimentation on experimentation:

I have found that the base stats, prior to experimentation, are similar to yours. However, I am noticing that my experimentation results are significantly better. For instance:

Bio Energy Controller: My base stats are 2 Power and 2 Charges, occasionally going down to 2 Power and 1 CHarge.After experimentation, I can get up to 6 power and/or 5 charges. However, I can consistently get 5 charges about 80% of the time. This, in my opinion, is VERY worthwhile to experiment on.

Chemical Release Device: My base stats are 4 Power and 0 CHarges. After Experimentation, I can get as high as 12 Power. However, the most common is 10 power, and I can get 10 or more Power also about 80% of the time. Again, I find it VERY worthwhile to experiment.

Liquid Suspension: The Liquid Suspension I make almost always starts with 14 Power. I get about the same max power, but I seem to achieve that much more often than you, again, about 80% of the time.

Overall, it seems we are getting the same values after experimentation, but I seem to be succeeding in experimentation a lot more often. I rarely ever fail, and seem to get good and great successes most often. This would make a big difference in the average stats after experimentation. Based on my observations, experimentation is definitely worth it.

Elegos

I'm not going to describe the whole process, but as a Doctor with Medicine Crafting I (7 experimentation points) I can make Stimpack C's with 25 chargeswith a value of 347.

How? Experiment one point at a time in EVERY component, Biological Effect Controller, Liquid Suspension, and Chemical Release mechanism.

I've tested trying the same results without any experimentation on the components, one at a time and all at once, the results for me were very noticeable.

And yes, I tested only experimenting with liquid suspension, and while it seems the biggest contributing factor in effectiveness (my best result this way was around 260) I could just not reach my 347 number only experimenting with them.

So I disagree, experimenting effectiveness with all 3 components will yield best results.

Elegos: How many experimentation points do you use to get those results? Do you use them all at once or one at a time? At a public or private crafting station?

And as I originally said, I don't doubt that experimentation will be more viable when you have more experimentation points, that just stands to reason. But a lot of people aren't headed down the Master Medic+ route and will never have more htan 5 points, and I think experimentation is of more limited use to them for some components.

Scorus

Hehe, I have made Bio's with 7 Power, 2 Charges (I'd rather have higher heals, you get so many uses anyway).

Chem Releases with 15 Power...

SDS's (Solid Delivery...) with 15 Power...

Liquid Suspension -- Man! I got lucky one time and received an Amazing Success!! when I put all my experimentation into Experimental Effectiveness; they are 45 Power =)

Aww yeah!

My Stim-B's heal for 226 (yes, BH's and 2nd tier combatants on Bria, they are for sale! Get twice the power per heal of your run-of-the-mill B's!), Stim-C's are ~335 -- I forget what my record is.

And currently I roll with a crate of 24 30-use Stim-D's with a base heal rating of 564. That's 720 heals that are pretty much guaranteed to do 1100+ with all my skill. Yes, my life in SWG is sweet.

Rufan Corridano

I want to thank all who contributed because I am realizing that I'm not doing as well in the crafting department as I should have. I will start looking for better quality components and experimenting more often.