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Message Edited by ParnellOfBria on 04-24-2005 10:00 AM

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ParnellOfBria wrote:

Here's some ideas:

get rid of the reason to weapon stack ships.... ( i donno how, you figure it out, but a suggestion would be to make shields more useful)

what are you talking about?

make 1 capacitor per weapon mount... and make no mass limit/energy requirement on it or just divide by 3 on the current costs of capacitors... i donno you figure it out, see step 1.

what step 1?

improve NPC ai... i got dizzy spinning around in circles in kessel... npc ai is stupid, they know they can't out turn you but they just keep flying in circles.... they know they can out run you, but they won't fly out then back at oyu.... horrible AI...

there is a difference in AI depending on if the ship is for a mission or a "wild" ship. Wild ships are stupid you are right. Ships for a mission will chase you if you try to run away,andbased on my experience they do break formation tohelp their wingmates. A good example of this are the tier 4 missions involving gunboats. If you run away, the gunboats will follow. "Wild" ships will stop followingif you get too far away. Again, this is only my opinion based on my experience.

improve NPC ai... npc's fire 1 shot every time their capacitor is full.. this is dumb... they should fire volleys of shots at us when they have an open shot... they should be less accurate than they currently are, but be able to volley fire... then turn away and recharge when needed....

If you want the ships to be more dangerous, why not volley shots and more accurate? good idea

improve NPC ai... npcs don't cover eachother... i can sit there and shoot at one npc's wingman and the npc will just keep right by his side...n ot breaking off to assist...

good idea

improve NPC ai... npcs should do shield work... adjusting to rear... adjusting to front...

good idea

From xwing series: divert energy to shields, to guns, to engines... where is this functionality it seems pretty standard for the star wars universe to be able to do these things....

divert energy to shields = capacitor to shield shunt (a privateer program)

divert energy to guns = weapon overload (an Imperial program)

divert energy to engines = engine overload (anImperialprogram)& pump reactor (an Imperial skill that increases reactor and engine output for a short time)

These features are already in the game.

from xwing series: targeting... JTL targeting does not work.. the green lead reticule is rarely ever right, especially in a turning battle... Take the reticule from xwing and implement that... where it goes green when you're lined up... but goes off while you'r efiring...

You just have to know how far ahead to aim. Or fly a ship with a wide firing path (Xwing or Kraytfor example). Pilotting should take some skill in aiming, not depending on a computer should it not?

from xwing series: maneverability, flight model... while i like the idea that the slower you go the less turn rate you get (up to the sweet spot) then the faster you go the less turn rate you get... i still like the Xwing series flight controls a lot better.... ONE MAJOR ISSUE is that turning diagonally (pulling up while yawing right for example) makes you actually turn faster ... ALSO rolling makes you turn faster too... while this is an interesting new twist on things... it's sortof annoying ot have to depend on this "BUG??" to turn fast enough to target enemies...

The reason you turn faster when you roll or pitch while yawing is that you are now moving on 2 or 3 axes. Think about it, if you want to pull up 90 degress, then yaw right 90 degrees, you could do it in 2 steps, first pulling up then yawing. Doing it in one motion is faster and more efficient. The flight model for JTL and every other flight sim ever made is based on real world planes on Earth. The reason an F-16 rolls a little bit when it yaws is becase, simply turning therudder left or right makes for a jerky motion that takes too long. In a dogfight with an enemy on your tail, jerky slow movements are not a good thing.

To sum it up, what you're talking about isn't a bug.

balancing: my thought would be change from a mass system to a mounting point system... give chassis level limitations on parts rather than going off mass... i like the whole energy idea that's good but mass just forces people to abandon some of the cooler features of space battles... ie missiles.... armor plating.... Doing this will also make some of the lower level chassis worth using... Obviously as it is now there IS 'best chassis" to use... and people juse use those.... it's sad because there will be no variety in space.

I see variety in space everyday. Master pilots flying A/B/X/Ywings, all the TIE variants, dunelizards, kimos, krayts, etc. There is no "perfect" ship. They each have they're own purpose.

Message Edited by ParnellOfBria on 04-24-2005 10:00 AM

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AlexKC wrote:

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ParnellOfBria wrote:

Here's some ideas:

get rid of the reason to weapon stack ships.... ( i donno how, you figure it out, but a suggestion would be to make shields more useful)

what are you talking about?

npc ships have high shields... so people seem to go heavy on the guns, but ignore things like armor and droid interfaces... so they can do more damage.... i'm saying get of the need to do this...

make 1 capacitor per weapon mount... and make no mass limit/energy requirement on it or just divide by 3 on the current costs of capacitors... i donno you figure it out, see step 1.

what step 1?

Part about needing to take a look at succesful and well made space sims, like xwing series.

improve NPC ai... i got dizzy spinning around in circles in kessel... npc ai is stupid, they know they can't out turn you but they just keep flying in circles.... they know they can out run you, but they won't fly out then back at oyu.... horrible AI...

there is a difference in AI depending on if the ship is for a mission or a "wild" ship. Wild ships are stupid you are right. Ships for a mission will chase you if you try to run away,andbased on my experience they do break formation tohelp their wingmates. A good example of this are the tier 4 missions involving gunboats. If you run away, the gunboats will follow. "Wild" ships will stop followingif you get too far away. Again, this is only my opinion based on my experience.

Kessel ships just turn in circles... and every rebel mission i've played theres ships that just turn in circles... point is even the highest tier 5 stuff just turns in circles....

improve NPC ai... npc's fire 1 shot every time their capacitor is full.. this is dumb... they should fire volleys of shots at us when they have an open shot... they should be less accurate than they currently are, but be able to volley fire... then turn away and recharge when needed....

If you want the ships to be more dangerous, why not volley shots and more accurate? good idea

Well more shots... a little _less_ accuracy i think because i have yet to see an npc ship miss unless you're turning wildly about in an awing... or tie fighter... or other extremely maneuverable ship... Sucks that npc reticules work and ours don't heh

improve NPC ai... npcs don't cover eachother... i can sit there and shoot at one npc's wingman and the npc will just keep right by his side...n ot breaking off to assist...

good idea

improve NPC ai... npcs should do shield work... adjusting to rear... adjusting to front...

good idea

From xwing series: divert energy to shields, to guns, to engines... where is this functionality it seems pretty standard for the star wars universe to be able to do these things....

divert energy to shields = capacitor to shield shunt (a privateer program)

divert energy to guns = weapon overload (an Imperial program)

divert energy to engines = engine overload (anImperialprogram)& pump reactor (an Imperial skill that increases reactor and engine output for a short time)

These features are already in the game.

Maybe i didn't get those because i'm a rebel... or maybe i just didn't notice because they only refresh once every 10minutes or something like that... not very useful... what i really liked about xwing series was how interactive space flight was... it wasn't just turning and shooting... it was actually manipulating shield and gun energy back and forth as needed as well... just seemed more interactive.

from xwing series: targeting... JTL targeting does not work.. the green lead reticule is rarely ever right, especially in a turning battle... Take the reticule from xwing and implement that... where it goes green when you're lined up... but goes off while you'r efiring...

You just have to know how far ahead to aim. Or fly a ship with a wide firing path (Xwing or Kraytfor example). Pilotting should take some skill in aiming, not depending on a computer should it not?

I think it should depend on the computer... this is a space sim... even in present day we have targeting computers... obviously the ships in the movies had targeting computers to tell you when you "lined up" a shot... i'm not asking for anything to aim for you... i just really liked how xwing series worked... My problem with JTL is that the green leading reticule is there... does it have a purpose??? 9/10 times it's not accurate. so why not let me remove it.

from xwing series: maneverability, flight model... while i like the idea that the slower you go the less turn rate you get (up to the sweet spot) then the faster you go the less turn rate you get... i still like the Xwing series flight controls a lot better.... ONE MAJOR ISSUE is that turning diagonally (pulling up while yawing right for example) makes you actually turn faster ... ALSO rolling makes you turn faster too... while this is an interesting new twist on things... it's sortof annoying ot have to depend on this "BUG??" to turn fast enough to target enemies...

The reason you turn faster when you roll or pitch while yawing is that you are now moving on 2 or 3 axes. Think about it, if you want to pull up 90 degress, then yaw right 90 degrees, you could do it in 2 steps, first pulling up then yawing. Doing it in one motion is faster and more efficient. The flight model for JTL and every other flight sim ever made is based on real world planes on Earth. The reason an F-16 rolls a little bit when it yaws is becase, simply turning therudder left or right makes for a jerky motion that takes too long. In a dogfight with an enemy on your tail, jerky slow movements are not a good thing.

To sum it up, what you're talking about isn't a bug.

In space you don't have air flow ... you have directional thrusters i assume... and i assume for each direction of motion you have equal number of thrusters, so based on a realistic physics model in space...

you know what.. screw realism... my point is that in the xwing series... when i yaw + pitch... it doesn't increase my turning speed... it takes an average of them and applies it to the diagonal direction... not adds them together and frankly i liked the xwing series 900x better than JTL

balancing: my thought would be change from a mass system to a mounting point system... give chassis level limitations on parts rather than going off mass... i like the whole energy idea that's good but mass just forces people to abandon some of the cooler features of space battles... ie missiles.... armor plating.... Doing this will also make some of the lower level chassis worth using... Obviously as it is now there IS 'best chassis" to use... and people juse use those.... it's sad because there will be no variety in space.

I see variety in space everyday. Master pilots flying A/B/X/Ywings, all the TIE variants, dunelizards, kimos, krayts, etc. There is no "perfect" ship. They each have they're own purpose.

Ok, tell me the purpose of the ywing...

tell me the purpose of the z95...

tell me the purpose of the multiplayer ships...

i would love to see a reason to use them... besides "cool factor"

My point i guess isn't that JTL is completely worthless... but that the devs should really improve upon the whole core of the system... it's really lacking when compared to the xwing series and freelancer. Both of those were really good systems and way better flight models. Have you played them?

Message Edited by ParnellOfBria on 04-24-2005 10:00 AM

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Improving the AI is something I would like to see.

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ParnellOfBria wrote:

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AlexKC wrote:

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ParnellOfBria wrote:

Here's some ideas:

get rid of the reason to weapon stack ships.... ( i donno how, you figure it out, but a suggestion would be to make shields more useful)

what are you talking about?

npc ships have high shields... so people seem to go heavy on the guns, but ignore things like armor and droid interfaces... so they can do more damage.... i'm saying get of the need to do this...

I don't know any good pilots who skip on shields or interfaces.

make 1 capacitor per weapon mount... and make no mass limit/energy requirement on it or just divide by 3 on the current costs of capacitors... i donno you figure it out, see step 1.

what step 1?

Part about needing to take a look at succesful and well made space sims, like xwing series.

OK

improve NPC ai... i got dizzy spinning around in circles in kessel... npc ai is stupid, they know they can't out turn you but they just keep flying in circles.... they know they can out run you, but they won't fly out then back at oyu.... horrible AI...

there is a difference in AI depending on if the ship is for a mission or a "wild" ship. Wild ships are stupid you are right. Ships for a mission will chase you if you try to run away,andbased on my experience they do break formation tohelp their wingmates. A good example of this are the tier 4 missions involving gunboats. If you run away, the gunboats will follow. "Wild" ships will stop followingif you get too far away. Again, this is only my opinion based on my experience.

Kessel ships just turn in circles... and every rebel mission i've played theres ships that just turn in circles... point is even the highest tier 5 stuff just turns in circles....

That is all they do and yeah it's not so good my point was that gunboats on missions are smarter

improve NPC ai... npc's fire 1 shot every time their capacitor is full.. this is dumb... they should fire volleys of shots at us when they have an open shot... they should be less accurate than they currently are, but be able to volley fire... then turn away and recharge when needed....

If you want the ships to be more dangerous, why not volley shots and more accurate? good idea

Well more shots... a little _less_ accuracy i think because i have yet to see an npc ship miss unless you're turning wildly about in an awing... or tie fighter... or other extremely maneuverable ship... Sucks that npc reticules work and ours don't heh

LOL

improve NPC ai... npcs don't cover eachother... i can sit there and shoot at one npc's wingman and the npc will just keep right by his side...n ot breaking off to assist...

good idea

improve NPC ai... npcs should do shield work... adjusting to rear... adjusting to front...

good idea

From xwing series: divert energy to shields, to guns, to engines... where is this functionality it seems pretty standard for the star wars universe to be able to do these things....

divert energy to shields = capacitor to shield shunt (a privateer program)

divert energy to guns = weapon overload (an Imperial program)

divert energy to engines = engine overload (anImperialprogram)& pump reactor (an Imperial skill that increases reactor and engine output for a short time)

These features are already in the game.

Maybe i didn't get those because i'm a rebel... or maybe i just didn't notice because they only refresh once every 10minutes or something like that... not very useful... what i really liked about xwing series was how interactive space flight was... it wasn't just turning and shooting... it was actually manipulating shield and gun energy back and forth as needed as well... just seemed more interactive.

You can get a friendly Imperial or Privateer pilot to make droid chips for these commands that you can put in your flight computer or astromech. The commands last until you either get blown up, land your ship, enter and then leave Deep Space, or repair at at station. I do agree that the JTL shield reinforcements aren't that interactive. Maybea "slider bar" on your ship's flight stick that would let you manually divert power. commands such as front/rear shield reinforcement would last until youeitherturned them off or adjusted the shields withthe sliderbar.Fora keyboard you couldbind it on theR and F keys, or something. Good idea

from xwing series: targeting... JTL targeting does not work.. the green lead reticule is rarely ever right, especially in a turning battle... Take the reticule from xwing and implement that... where it goes green when you're lined up... but goes off while you'r efiring...

You just have to know how far ahead to aim. Or fly a ship with a wide firing path (Xwing or Kraytfor example). Pilotting should take some skill in aiming, not depending on a computer should it not?

I think it should depend on the computer... this is a space sim... even in present day we have targeting computers... obviously the ships in the movies had targeting computers to tell you when you "lined up" a shot... i'm not asking for anything to aim for you... i just really liked how xwing series worked... My problem with JTL is that the green leading reticule is there... does it have a purpose??? 9/10 times it's not accurate. so why not let me remove it.

Removing it would make space a little harder, something I'm not against

from xwing series: maneverability, flight model... while i like the idea that the slower you go the less turn rate you get (up to the sweet spot) then the faster you go the less turn rate you get... i still like the Xwing series flight controls a lot better.... ONE MAJOR ISSUE is that turning diagonally (pulling up while yawing right for example) makes you actually turn faster ... ALSO rolling makes you turn faster too... while this is an interesting new twist on things... it's sortof annoying ot have to depend on this "BUG??" to turn fast enough to target enemies...

The reason you turn faster when you roll or pitch while yawing is that you are now moving on 2 or 3 axes. Think about it, if you want to pull up 90 degress, then yaw right 90 degrees, you could do it in 2 steps, first pulling up then yawing. Doing it in one motion is faster and more efficient. The flight model for JTL and every other flight sim ever made is based on real world planes on Earth. The reason an F-16 rolls a little bit when it yaws is becase, simply turning therudder left or right makes for a jerky motion that takes too long. In a dogfight with an enemy on your tail, jerky slow movements are not a good thing.

To sum it up, what you're talking about isn't a bug.

In space you don't have air flow ... you have directional thrusters i assume... and i assume for each direction of motion you have equal number of thrusters, so based on a realistic physics model in space...

you know what.. screw realism... my point is that in the xwing series... when i yaw + pitch... it doesn't increase my turning speed... it takes an average of them and applies it to the diagonal direction... not adds them together and frankly i liked the xwing series 900x better than JTL

My point is that in real physics it adds them together based on the angle of the turn, the magnitude of the X/Y/Z components of the turn, and makes a straight line vector that the ship follows (roughly follows).

balancing: my thought would be change from a mass system to a mounting point system... give chassis level limitations on parts rather than going off mass... i like the whole energy idea that's good but mass just forces people to abandon some of the cooler features of space battles... ie missiles.... armor plating.... Doing this will also make some of the lower level chassis worth using... Obviously as it is now there IS 'best chassis" to use... and people juse use those.... it's sad because there will be no variety in space.

I see variety in space everyday. Master pilots flying A/B/X/Ywings, all the TIE variants, dunelizards, kimos, krayts, etc. There is no "perfect" ship. They each have they're own purpose.

Ok, tell me the purpose of the ywing...

tell me the purpose of the z95...

tell me the purpose of the multiplayer ships...

i would love to see a reason to use them... besides "cool factor"

Ywing - heavy figher/bomber

Z95 - right now, it's just the rebel starter ship. After RotW, it will be a normal fighter because it will have enough mass to make it worth something. It was used by alot of freelance pilots in the EU.

MP Ships - cool factor and based on the new MP ship components we are getting soon, that's all they're gonna be because the components aren't very good.

My point i guess isn't that JTL is completely worthless... but that the devs should really improve upon the whole core of the system... it's really lacking when compared to the xwing series and freelancer. Both of those were really good systems and way better flight models. Have you played them?

I never played freelancer but I remember the Xwing series. I prefer the JTL model because I think it feels faster. Just my opinion.

Message Edited by ParnellOfBria on 04-24-2005 10:00 AM

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Message Edited by Washell on 04-26-2005 10:10 AM