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Thread: Devs need to talk to TIE Fighter and XWA developers could learn a lot.
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DarthDiesel
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:21 pm
#1
Seriously.
The visuals/graphics in JTLS are great. However, I have lots of little pet peeves, but the key one is this, and ought to be easy to fix: The flight dynamics.
Add inertia to craft directional control. The instant I let go of the joystick, the reticle/fighter instantly goes into straight-line flight. This feels VERY unrealistic, and makes flight very erratic and unsmooth - I have a decent joystick too. A simple bit of inertia alone would dramatically help things.
There are other peeves, such as:
- why are the laser blasts so slow (not fire rate, but projectile speed)that one must almost lead so much that the target is off the screen?
-why are fightersso darn slow?? Relatedly, it seems like all the maneuvers in the world won't help evade enemy fire. Hopefully, this is just an issue on lower-grade ships.
- the AI needs a serious revamp; again, look at XWA.
- as mentioned elsewhere, the musical score for battle sequences is pretty repetitive. Again, XWA, as I recall, had very good interactive musical scoring/coreography.
There are surely other aspects of JTLS that could be improved by borrowing from existing LucasArts products.
Anyway, like the title says - the flight dynamics of the fighters leaves a lot to be desired.
Otherwise, I'm having fun so far with JTLS after a couple days of playing. I like a lot of the content, and a chance to fly for the Emperor again! 
I really hope the full potential of JTLS is exploited fast, because it definitely has a lot of potential. This really seems like a great game, but like all great games, we want to make them even better.So why don't we?
I really hope the full potential of JTLS is exploited fast, because it definitely has a lot of potential. This really seems like a great game, but like all great games, we want to make them even better.So why don't we? Message Edited by DarthDiesel on 11-03-2004 03:20 AM
JodoWalker
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:24 pm
#2
For the speed issue, loot a better engine, I recently looted one with a speed of 70.3 which turns out to be about 639.
Seen alot of faster ships about also.
Zexc
Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:01 pm
#4
They really need to increase the projectile speed , ive neever seen a twitched-based game that required so much leading that they actually had to add a "lead-indicater" to help with it. Jtls isent as twitched-based as the other star wars flight sims, how many skill boxes you have greatly outway how much skill your enemy has.
Dookay
Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:08 pm
#5
Virtually none of this is true. No offense, but almost every flight sim, especially space based ones have lead indicators. Wing Commander, and even some of the X-wing series. Second boxes make a certain amount of difference, but from Tier 2 on, I feel that you can compete with most anything. As for projectile speed, that changes depending on the weapon and the weapon configuration, as does handling, none of the small craft have that much inertia, but the larger fighters and the multi-passenger ships are all very inertial. As for speed, that also increases. The projectile speed though is good because it allows manueverable ships to be hard to hit, and forces people with heavy weapons to be smart about the shots they take.
Zexc wrote:
They really need to increase the projectile speed , ive neever seen a twitched-based game that required so much leading that they actually had to add a "lead-indicater" to help with it. Jtls isent as twitched-based as the other star wars flight sims, how many skill boxes you have greatly outway how much skill your enemy has.
DarthDiesel
Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:28 am
#6
Dookay wrote:
Virtually none of this is true. No offense, but almost every flight sim, especially space based ones have lead indicators. Wing Commander, and even some of the X-wing series. Second boxes make a certain amount of difference, but from Tier 2 on, I feel that you can compete with most anything. As for projectile speed, that changes depending on the weapon and the weapon configuration, as does handling, none of the small craft have that much inertia, but the larger fighters and the multi-passenger ships are all very inertial. As for speed, that also increases. The projectile speed though is good because it allows manueverable ships to be hard to hit, and forces people with heavy weapons to be smart about the shots they take.
Zexc wrote:
They really need to increase the projectile speed , ive neever seen a twitched-based game that required so much leading that they actually had to add a "lead-indicater" to help with it. Jtls isent as twitched-based as the other star wars flight sims, how many skill boxes you have greatly outway how much skill your enemy has.
Wing Commander had crap flight dynamics also. Xwing/TIE Fighter/XWA were tops for realistic flight feel.
While its true other sims have lead indicators, that is beside the point - the laser blasts are HORRIBLY slow. Ships can be right in front of you in almost parallel trajectory, and you still have to lead like a full visual ship length! Silly.
I may be wrong, as I havent advanced very far up the pilot XP chain, but I don't think you understand my point about projectile speed OR inertia. I have a decent upgraded TIE, and it's differing weapons and engine make no real difference in speed of projectiles or craft.I don't recall any spec in the examine screen for projectile speed - I'll have to check. Flight behavior is still unrealistic. It has ZERO inertia - not realistic at all.
MAKE IT LIKE "TIE FIGHTER" or X Wing Alliance!!
Message Edited by DarthDiesel on 11-02-2004 11:33 PM
Talh
Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:54 am
#7
I have posted before about this they need to get the AI like the TIE Fighter/XWing games. The AI in jtls when being attacked is a auto follow command that has a auto lock function that 99% hits if you are anywhere in front of them no matter what manuver you are pulling off. The AI when attacking a npc ship in jtls does not react to your attack by taking evasive manuvers just go right back to there attack command.
We need real much better AI programing for jtls I thought this was going to be on the quality of the old TIE/Xwing games as far as game play.
BTW: where are all the capital ships at?
MasterSad
Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:23 am
#8
Unfortunately I have to agree with both points:
- ships speed should be increased (made it to 4433 in beta so I know that the ship upgrades way not enough if you compare to XWing/Tie).
- projectiles and especially energetic weapon blast speeds should be increased... now we have effect of wind blowing them away when turning...
- ships speed should be increased (made it to 4433 in beta so I know that the ship upgrades way not enough if you compare to XWing/Tie).
- projectiles and especially energetic weapon blast speeds should be increased... now we have effect of wind blowing them away when turning...
FuryoftheStars
Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:37 am
#9
Dookay wrote:Virtually none of this is true. No offense, but almost every flight sim, especially space based ones have lead indicators. Wing Commander, and even some of the X-wing series. Second boxes make a certain amount of difference, but from Tier 2 on, I feel that you can compete with most anything. As for projectile speed, that changes depending on the weapon and the weapon configuration, as does handling, none of the small craft have that much inertia, but the larger fighters and the multi-passenger ships are all very inertial. As for speed, that also increases. The projectile speed though is good because it allows manueverable ships to be hard to hit, and forces people with heavy weapons to be smart about the shots they take.
Zexc wrote:They really need to increase the projectile speed , ive neever seen a twitched-based game that required so much leading that they actually had to add a "lead-indicater" to help with it. Jtls isent as twitched-based as the other star wars flight sims, how many skill boxes you have greatly outway how much skill your enemy has.
There is no visable lead indicator in X-Wing or X-Wing Alliance. The most it does is light up the reticle telling you that you have a high chance of hitting your target. You still had to do the visual line up yourself. As for Wing Commander, I don't know which one of the many they released your talking about, but I know the original one did not have a lead indicator of any sort.
As for projectile speed, the lasers in X-Wing series were much faster. I could hit a TIE while doing a tight turn with it sitting right in my front window. I can't here. Here I still have to lead it so far that I can't see the fighter anymore. But in reference to the heavier weapons, I'm not 100% sure on that. I know Ion cannon shots move a hell of a lot slower, but I don't know on the rest. Perhaps it would be nice if someone (like the devs) could shed some light onto the relative speed of the projectile from each weapon?
As for inertia, you may not be seeing it all that well because your using TIEs which are a lot better at manuevering and therefore better deceleration from a turn. The Y-Wing on the other hand I have noticed inertia. When I do a roll, it takes it a little bit to get up to speed, then once I release it takes a bit to stop. Same goes with throttle acceleration and deceleration.
DarthDiesel
Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:25 am
#10
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Dookay wrote:
Virtually none of this is true. No offense, but almost every flight sim, especially space based ones have lead indicators. Wing Commander, and even some of the X-wing series. Second boxes make a certain amount of difference, but from Tier 2 on, I feel that you can compete with most anything. As for projectile speed, that changes depending on the weapon and the weapon configuration, as does handling, none of the small craft have that much inertia, but the larger fighters and the multi-passenger ships are all very inertial. As for speed, that also increases. The projectile speed though is good because it allows manueverable ships to be hard to hit, and forces people with heavy weapons to be smart about the shots they take.
Zexc wrote:
They really need to increase the projectile speed , ive neever seen a twitched-based game that required so much leading that they actually had to add a "lead-indicater" to help with it. Jtls isent as twitched-based as the other star wars flight sims, how many skill boxes you have greatly outway how much skill your enemy has.
There is no visable lead indicator in X-Wing or X-Wing Alliance. The most it does is light up the reticle telling you that you have a high chance of hitting your target. You still had to do the visual line up yourself. As for Wing Commander, I don't know which one of the many they released your talking about, but I know the original one did not have a lead indicator of any sort.
As for projectile speed, the lasers in X-Wing series were much faster. I could hit a TIE while doing a tight turn with it sitting right in my front window. I can't here. Here I still have to lead it so far that I can't see the fighter anymore. But in reference to the heavier weapons, I'm not 100% sure on that. I know Ion cannon shots move a hell of a lot slower, but I don't know on the rest. Perhaps it would be nice if someone (like the devs) could shed some light onto the relative speed of the projectile from each weapon?
As for inertia, you may not be seeing it all that well because your using TIEs which are a lot better at manuevering and therefore better deceleration from a turn. The Y-Wing on the other hand I have noticed inertia. When I do a roll, it takes it a little bit to get up to speed, then once I release it takes a bit to stop. Same goes with throttle acceleration and deceleration.
I too recall XWA, XW/TIE just having a green indicator light up upon proper target lead.
On inertia. You may be correct. It's nice to see that the devs apparently didnt just completely overlook the issue, as did the devs of say Wing Commander. However, the TIE fighters in "TIE Fighter" and XWA are quite maneuverable and low in inertia while still offering enough inertia to offer smooth directional transitions. I really think it can be done better than what's in the game right now.
shadowlurker
Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:07 am
#11
I agree the lead on a target is extensive compared to the X-Wing seris of sims. And the feel of the fighter when turning is a bit odd. If I recall correctly when you turned to port or starboard your craft would roll slightly without having to use a rudder. The tighter the turn to more it would roll. It feels like I am sitting in one spot spinning in a flat 2D plane firing at a target that is just circling me, yet I am at full throttle. That just feels a bit odd.
My other observation is targeting as a gunner can be difficult when there are a lot of targets to choose from. In the XWA if I engaged 6 TIEs they were designated as Alpha 1, Aplpha 2, etc. But in JTl those 6 TIE's are just designated as TIE Fighter. Would it possible to alter the naming of these flight groups so we can employ a little more strategy in combat?
Other than that I am having a blast with JTL.
My other observation is targeting as a gunner can be difficult when there are a lot of targets to choose from. In the XWA if I engaged 6 TIEs they were designated as Alpha 1, Aplpha 2, etc. But in JTl those 6 TIE's are just designated as TIE Fighter. Would it possible to alter the naming of these flight groups so we can employ a little more strategy in combat?
Other than that I am having a blast with JTL.
ShaftDW
Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:18 am
#12
SaleusCorwen wrote:
Don't forget the Awesome Radar Xwing series has..
the JTL space radar pales in comparison..
Indeed. The rader and targeting were awesome. The sector map was also simple, straightforward and easy to use, unlike the confusing map in JTL.
SaleusCorwen
Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:47 am
#13
ShaftDW wrote:
SaleusCorwen wrote:
Don't forget the Awesome Radar Xwing series has..
the JTL space radar pales in comparison..
Indeed. The rader and targeting were awesome. The sector map was also simple, straightforward and easy to use, unlike the confusing map in JTL.
i almost forgot about the map in XWA.. i loved to watch battles unfold...
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