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Thread: Moved to cities and housing forum please continue the discussion there.
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Bugboy321
Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:01 am
#1
You just have to love it when all you amateur programmers out there start telling SWG developers how to do their job. There will NEVER be enough storage to make everyone happy, and you know, a little time spent sorting through all the garbage you keep would solve your problem. If you need more storage, start another account, simple as that. You want it a bigger RL house, you buy a bigger house, if you can't afford it, you get a better paying job. Tiggs explained the reasons for the limit clearly enough, so let's cut the chatter and live with it.
You guys should try playing Ultima Online where 99% of the loot is garbage, with the item attribute system so complex you can't really tell if it's garbage or not on top of that.
Message Edited by Bugboy321 on 01-12-2005 09:09 AM
Resetgun
Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:34 am
#2
I must agree that current item limits are lame. I have played my new character now 12 days (I just resubscribed after I played 1 month during release) and I already have problem to find place to my items. And my house really isn't decorated (and maybe never will, because I need storage to my items).
However, this problem doesn't need new system. Just increase current item limit in houses. Thank you.
Should be much more simpler and easier. And because there is less players in servers there shouldn't be problem with server capacity either. New system would just introduce new bugs and exploits.
BTW: What is official way to do petitions like this? Is there email address or something? And why this thread is in JTL forum?
Message Edited by Resetgun on 01-12-2005 06:36 AM
Aceley
Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:22 am
#3
I think because "Ship item limit" was discussed at the start
a bigger limit would be nice i guess 
Blackjack_Nova
Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:22 am
#4
Lets talk Storage!
Storage Containers
- Bank: 100
- Personnel Inventory: 100
- Personnel Inventory: 100
-Datapad Droids:
Max Droids in Data Pad: 5
Max Droid Storage Module Capacity: 10
Droid Max Total 5 x 10 = 50
-Houseing:
Small Style 1 - 1 Lot, 75 Items
Small Style 2 - 2 Lots, 150 Items
Medium house - 2 Lots, 150 Items
Large house - 6 Lots, 250 Items
Max House Storage: 750
Maximum* item storage capacity per character with 5 Small House's: 1000 Items
Maximum* item storage capacity per character with Merchant Management Skill
and 10 Factories: 4000
Merchant Break Down:
Equipment, Food and Wearables factories - 1 Lot, 100 Items(Output Hopper)
Equipment, Food and Wearables factories - 1 Lot, 100 Items(Output Hopper)
Merchant Management Skill: Max Item Limit: 2750
Novice Merchant: 730
Management I: 500
Management II: 500
Management III: 500
Management IV: 500
Total addional inventory capacity: 2750
Novice Merchant: 730
Management I: 500
Management II: 500
Management III: 500
Management IV: 500
Total addional inventory capacity: 2750
*Variables not taken into account:
1. The Bazaar and other players Vendors.
The Bazaar accepts 25 items, and each players vendor will also accept 25 items. So one could go around to every vendor in the game and place 25 items on them for sale but at some point this would cause someone's inventory to max out because the item can only be listed for 30 days. Theoretically, one could juggle items between vendors to exceed the 4000 item maximum. But that would require a fair amount of effort.
1. The Bazaar and other players Vendors.
The Bazaar accepts 25 items, and each players vendor will also accept 25 items. So one could go around to every vendor in the game and place 25 items on them for sale but at some point this would cause someone's inventory to max out because the item can only be listed for 30 days. Theoretically, one could juggle items between vendors to exceed the 4000 item maximum. But that would require a fair amount of effort.
2. Lot Swaps and Trades.
People can get more storage by having another person place a building down for them, assigning them admin permissions and then use it for storage. Maximum storage space gained for each lot swap is is 75. If a person gets all 10 slots from the other character, such as with a "cross-server" lot swap the maximum storage increase is 750 items. Lot swapings is just another way for someone to obtain more storage space. Because the other character "owns" the lot, the item storage does not count agaisnt them, it only counts against the house placed on the lot, which in turn is owned by another character. Theoretically, one could obtain every "free" lot on the server and be able to place items in houses placed on the lot.
People can get more storage by having another person place a building down for them, assigning them admin permissions and then use it for storage. Maximum storage space gained for each lot swap is is 75. If a person gets all 10 slots from the other character, such as with a "cross-server" lot swap the maximum storage increase is 750 items. Lot swapings is just another way for someone to obtain more storage space. Because the other character "owns" the lot, the item storage does not count agaisnt them, it only counts against the house placed on the lot, which in turn is owned by another character. Theoretically, one could obtain every "free" lot on the server and be able to place items in houses placed on the lot.
How Item Storage and Item Display Impact You.
Storing an item and displaying an item are two diffrent things. When an item is placed within a structure such as a house or a multi-player ship it is rendered (drawn) on the characters screen for viewing when the object comes with the players field of view. This is a very important diffrentiation to keep in mind when considering items.
Because characters can dynamicly move objects and effect the enviroment around them, the data that describes an objects state is rather involved. Data that descibes the interaction and the end result of the interaction with the object need to flow from the client system to the server and out to all other client systems who are within viewing range of the object. This data also needs to be stored on within the database for further refrence. This process occurs contiuesly in a never ending loop of "state checks" that check that state of every object, records that state and then renders the resulting state to the screen.
When you think in the terms of storage, if every person where to be a Master Merchant, then we all would have a "max" storage limit of 4000 items. But when you think in terms of items being within a field of view, we are all limited to the Maximum of 250 items within our viewing field. That being the Maximun number of objects that could be placed in one room that we could "stand in" and look at all at the same time. Picture a large house with 250 items dropped in one of the rooms and you looking at all of those objects. Sure we can look at more then 250 "objects", the room could be packed with a hunderd of of friends for example..but that is not the point.
What is the point ??
Some "baseline"needs to be set in order for rendering of 3D objects to occur in a timely and acceptable fashion. Reducingfeatures suchs as shading and bumpmaps does effect rendering speeds,also redering shapes that have a lower poly count also helps rendering speeds, butit also effects the quaility of the graphics.All 3D objects are made up of polygons.A polygon being, 3 or more lines that intersect, such as a triangle or a rectangle. Now add to that the surface textures and object location data and you have a massive amount of information that needs to be calculated and rendered every frame. If each object is lets say, 20,000 polygons and 250 objects can be viewed at one time, that is 5,000,000 polygons that need to be rendered for each frame. In space, a ship that could hold more then 75 objects could be a lag machine.
Some "baseline"needs to be set in order for rendering of 3D objects to occur in a timely and acceptable fashion. Reducingfeatures suchs as shading and bumpmaps does effect rendering speeds,also redering shapes that have a lower poly count also helps rendering speeds, butit also effects the quaility of the graphics.All 3D objects are made up of polygons.A polygon being, 3 or more lines that intersect, such as a triangle or a rectangle. Now add to that the surface textures and object location data and you have a massive amount of information that needs to be calculated and rendered every frame. If each object is lets say, 20,000 polygons and 250 objects can be viewed at one time, that is 5,000,000 polygons that need to be rendered for each frame. In space, a ship that could hold more then 75 objects could be a lag machine.
From my perspective, item limitsare not so much anissue of how may items the ship or housecan hold, rather it is how may items that COULD be rendered and how much data for those objects needs to move through the server and it's datapaths.
Glzmo
Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:23 am
#5
All these suggestions are nice and dandy, but the main idea of the thread was not to increase storage volume for each player, but to redestribute item storage differently so you could use less houses and have them fully decorated while using them for storage as well. This would increase the roleplaying value of having a nice house.
AFAIK, 750 items are the current limit, so it wouldn't be much of a change data base wise. Yes, people can store up to 1000 items when using factories, but I believe this isn't working as intended. And if it was, the 750 item limit I am talking about in the main post could be raised to 1000 items as well.
Message Edited by Glzmo on 01-13-2005 08:27 AM
Blackjack_Nova
Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:30 pm
#6
Glzmo - Your numbers are not correct. Please take a look at my reply right above your last post. You will find a complete break down of storage and it's maximums.
It also explains the reasons why allowing people to have 750 items is a very demanding, if not overly damanding issue for graphics display as well as the datapath used but the database server. Take a look
It also explains the reasons why allowing people to have 750 items is a very demanding, if not overly damanding issue for graphics display as well as the datapath used but the database server. Take a look
Wystery
Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:52 pm
#7
This is a good improvement of the system. The reasons I think it won't be implemented however, is 1) too many people (like me) who own very few buildings will use this quite a lot. Second, I think more people try to fit what they can into the houses they have, and do not get more houses based on that. 2) this means that everyone can have 750 items, and that is a lot of storage space for SWG to do. Lag aside, the system might be set up to handle 5 houses with 75 items each better than 375 items in 1 house.
good idea tho, some fine tuning would make it work.
Aceley
Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:52 am
#8
something similar would be, everytime a house is set down, a corressponding limit brought bak a little... like...
1 small house - 75 items
2 small houses - another 75 but +25 items
3small houses - another 75 but +50 items
4small houses - another 75 but +75 items
so for using 4 lots for house storage you get an extra 75 items, but the extra item stroage must be evenly spread over the 4 houses... so 75 / 4 = 18 or 19 extra items per house... maybe not he best ratios etc, butthis wouldnt be too demanding for SWG on the graphics... and it would give players a small boost in item storage. Also im not sure how you would apply this to the like of medium, large and guild halls... but hopefully you understand the idea
romuski
Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:07 am
#9
Good idea, I'm sick and tired of all these storage houses littering the landscape. And this game needs heavy lag reductions.
FreeRadical42
Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:44 am
#10
Awful proposal since it doesn't take into account the fact that factories and larger houses can hold more than 75 items.
Glzmo
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:59 am
#11
FreeRadical42 wrote:
Awful proposal since it doesn't take into account the fact that factories and larger houses can hold more than 75 items.
If it is intended for factories to hold more items as storage, then 1000 items instead of 750 items would be acceptable. But I have the feeling 'abusing' factories as storage other than wasn't intended by developers. It would be nice to get a word from them on that issue.
As for houses, I do not know what you mean. It takes into account that it is a maximum of 75 items per lot in a house or multipassenger ship.In fact,there are no houses that hold more than 75 items per lot, although there are types ofhouses that hold far less than 75 items per lot.
Awful indeed?
Message Edited by Glzmo on 01-19-2005 07:09 AM
Glzmo
Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:28 am
#12
Moved the post to the more appropriate new Cities and Housing Forum. Please continue the discussion there, as I will not monitor this very thread in the Jump to Lightspeed forum anymore.
Here is the link to the new thread:
Message Edited by Glzmo on 01-19-2005 10:55 PM
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