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Thread: Will space PvP damage change ?
At any rate, instead of damage reduction, I think I'm more sold on normalizing defenses for players and damage for npcs so that battles more resemble a PVE fight. I'm obviously a minority in my views, but I'd just like my prey to live long enough for me to at least get a glimpse of what kinda ship he's flying before I roast his butt. 
I'll stop posting on this thread if I'm the only one of this persuasion.
JamesBenson wrote:
And how much fun did you have in the 1 second it took to turn the other guy into a fireball? That's my point. Sure, you get that instantaneous burst of adrenaline, but then it's rather anti-climatic when you barely touched the trigger and they're dead. Normally I'm opposed to nerfs, but they need to normalize damage (or the absorption of damage) so that it's more like an NPC battle. It takes me several shots with my Advanced to bring down Tier 4 stuff...but with a Tier 5 uber pvper, it's just a matter of who sees who first. The greater majority of the combat is getting to them to one-shot them up the rear. The entire point of this thread is to make space pvp FUN. If that means a nerf, so be it. One solution would be to change shields so that they actually have a LOT higher shield rating (which I suspect was done with npcs...armor, too). This would make the PVE game unbalanced, though. Which means they would need to normalize the damage NPCs do so it's more in line with what we're doing to them to make up for our increased defenses. It may not seem realistic to have 250000 shields, but they could change it to be more like TIE Fighter where you had a color indicator showing how your shields were doing and we'd be none the wiser while flying. *shrug* Just another way to make space pvp more fun.
Message Edited by JamesBenson on 03-06-2005 10:01 AM
The fun I have with space PvP (or whenever I'm flying overt) is the constant tension of knowing that I could be blown away with the slightest error on my part. The longest dogfight I've been in (past the merge when we got into each other's range) was about a minute. That's sixty seconds of hair-raising excitement as I tried to bring my guns to bear on my opponent before he could do the same to me, knowing that one split second screwup could cost me the fight. It was awesome. (I lost, by the way.) The shortest ones were all against MP ships. (They're sitting ducks. No doubt about it.)
I'm willing to admit that what I consider fun may not be what you enjoy. I play a lot of hard-core flight sims, where the rule of the game is one-burst/one-missile = one kill. In those rare situations where I have underpowered guns and I haven't got a chance of penetrating the enemy's armor quickly (usually in WWI or WWII sims), I aim for the cockpit to kill the pilot. It's pretty neat to see the cockpit glass erupt in a red fountain. (We've got some sick programmers and modders for our sims!) 
Someone brought up the point that Tiefighters were two shot kills in the old X-Wing games. That's only true if you're talking about one pair of blasters without the weapons energy being on overload. A-Wings would still one-shot Tie Fighters when the capacitor reading turned bright orange. X-Wings (with 4 guns) would ALWAYS one-shot Tie Fighters. But the mechanics of those games are nothing like JtL. There was no way you could be viable in X-Wing vs. Tiefighter if you set your shields and capacitor to recharge because you'd bea sitting duck. In JtL, unless you're running EO4, WO3, CO4, RO4, you are going to have some serious problems in PvP. It's apples and oranges at this point. (Though I kinda wonder why they just didn't license the game mechanics from LucasArts. After all, those games were VERY well-balanced.)
I must admit that there are a lot of things I'dhave donedifferently with JtL. A Tier 1 X-Wing would have the exact same physical stats as a Tier 5 X-Wing, if I had a choice. It's just that the Tier 5 X-Wing would perform to the maximum abilities of the craft. I'd stress having more difficult A.I. instead of tougher ships with increasing Tiers. No single player would blithly dive into a cloud of 18 Tier 5 anything (like in Deep Space) because they would get their butt kicked. The ISD would have tractor beams and missile launchers, as would the Rebel Station. Plus, those guns would reach out at least 3K. One of the ISD's turrets is larger than any player ship. It's kinda goofy to think that it couldn't even shoot along its full length.
A well-equipped Ace has nothing to fear from NPCs in space. That's the honest truth. Players are the ONLY things out there that can give you a real run for your money. I believe that space combat should be fast, brutal and unforgiving. And only with the PvP damage being where it is now, is that possible. I do sympathize with you guys who constantly get blown out of the skies without ever seeing your opponent. The learning curve is steep and there's no margin for error. My suggestion is to try to find a friendly pilot who will do practice space combat maneuvers with you. If you're in the Tarquinas galaxy, send me a /tell. I'll happily help.
Anoshin wrote:
Excellent post! I totally agree with you that personal skills and experience should determine the duration of the combat! Be aware, be quick and you'll leave forever. This is so true about SW figher dogfights. It's pure awareness and piloting skills. Being quick and accurate at the same time is hard and if it's too hard for those, who ask for damage reduction - just stay on the ground or practice more.
But certainly we have forgot the point about large MP ships. Give them better shielding, or the idea I read on page 3 of this thread - deflector shield system - heavy components that allow to deflect heavy blaster fire instead of absorbing it. It is tough to take down tier 5 gunboat or a Corvette even for two fighers. Taking down Tier 5, player YT with two experienced gunners should be definitely not easier.
Thanx
I agree with you that MP ships need an overhaul. Why not give the SWs something to do by crafting some nice gear to use up that 5mil mass. Space loot cuts into SWs business a bit and being able to craft Ace and/or MP ship components would help to make them as busy as armorsmiths and weaponsmiths.
As for MP ships in PVP, if you've got a full crew it should take several player ships to take out your MP ship. I have a crew of 9 plus myself and we do just fine against against NPCs. Against other players we can deal with about 4-5 shots then it's lights out. I have to fly my VT like a fighter in order to take out the bad guys and I shouldn't have to or be able to do that. I think the roles of the MP ships need to change. The Novas and VTs should be like mini-capitol ships. Slow and hard to manuver, but able to take incredible ammounts of damage and pack wicked punches. The YTs on the other hand should be able tozip around like a heavy fighter at least and dish out some nice damage but not as much as a Nova or VT. A YT should be what you need to take out a Nova or VT.
Maybe have a mass rating per component slot. Like 5mil overall mass for MP ships but have maybe 200k mass allowed for weapons on the YT vs. 400k on weapon mass for Novas and VTs. And of course the YT should have a much better PYR rating than a Nova or VT.
JTL is great as it is but a few tewaks here and there wouldn't hurt.
Thradd wrote:
1) Learn to fly better
2) Macro your "Closest Enemy Player Button"
3) Learn what works best. In PVP bigger is not always better
4) Fly better
5) Stay planetside and play with your DoTs
In space...noone can hear you whine.
QFE
I think one reality some people need to realize, is that hardcore flying in a PvP enviorment, is not for everyone. Some people simply won't be able to wrap their head around some of the concepts, or simply lack the reflexes or concetration required to be compedative.
Your skill as an individual YOU the person, (as apposed to the charcter youve grinded on the ground for months and honed to perfection with the right skill choices) are what matter most. Not everyone can play a fast action twitch time game. It's just a simple fact of life. Just like some people are good at chess, but suck at Tennis. same thing here, and just like any other thing, practice makes perfect, and you'll only be able to improve your skills if you push yourself to your limit. ALot of times thats facing someone better than you are. Experience is the best teacher, and every time you get vapped in space, you should be asking yourself, "Ok, what did i do wrong?" That said, there is always someone better then you. I can think of one pilot right now who ive personally given the nick name, "The Schoolmaster"
(cause i get schooled when i see him! )At any rate, one point i wanted to make about whining, is the exact opposite of it. Don't trash talk anyone you disentintergrate. Sometimes the only reason you win in a fight is PURE LUCK, and everyone who PvP's reguarly should know this. What's more, It's bad form, and could turn something that is nothing but buisness, into something personal. Don't make it personal, nobody needs that garbage. Just go threw your target, and move on to the next. Your a pilot in a Navy, thats your job.
I certainly hope not. It is plain wrong to change damage for only one thing (like PVP). They need to reduce the damage of the player weapons and reduce the NPCs shields and armor to match. Then PvP and PvE is on the same model and both are fun.
VolvoSsixtyTsix wrote:
If you never tried it, it will save you the dissapointment. Its a one shot game, no fun no interest. IMO it should be the TIER6 way of fighting, just like NPC's fairly long combat where you need to kite stalk and try to chase you target down, not a one shot battle.