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Thread: How to make Capital ships playable
AlanTeosaSV wrote:
The good news is that JTL is being done by LucasArts, which is definately experienced in this sort of stuff, and is probably more compitent then SOE's dev staff.Perhapes we'll be surprised with LucasArt's capacity.
I'm not so sure about LucasArts coding JtL. But even if it is true, if you're referring to the X-Wing/Tie Fighter series Total Gameswrote them, LucasArts just published.
Later,
LAR
Sorry bout triple post
Message Edited by Janson on 05-28-2004 11:50 AM
A few things
First: LAR is correct. SOE has never backed off this project. LucasArts has always been the publisher, not the designer. SOE is the games designer.
Second: Capitol Ships!
Anyone ever played Battlefield 1942? There is a ship in the original that reminds me a lot of how I envision SWG Capitol Ships, and that is the aircraft carrier. It is driven by players, there are cannons on the sides to use to shoot down attacking aircraft, and airplanes that can be taken from the ship and flown around.
- Basic Ideas:
The capitol ship has a few basic parts.
1) Piloting/Navigation Systems
2) Assault/Defensive cannons/measures
3) Living Quarters
4) Hanger/Launch Bay
5) Shields
6) Sensors
All these areas must be manned and or used by the player in the Capitol ship.
1)Piloting/Navigation
There needs to be a captain of each ship. This is a given. This person directs the movements of the ship and the direction of the fire, etc. The captain should have the ability to cover any crew station from his console. Also, the captain should have a volleyfire type ability, where he can focus the turbolasers' targets.
2) Assault/Defensive cannons/measures
There will obviously be an insane number of guns on these things (at least the larger ones). Gunner/turret stations should be player mannable, however, should be AI controlled when a player is absent. Cap's also have a few missle bays as well. There should be a gunner chair on the bridge as well as just turrets. This guy should control the missles and could just keep watch over the gunners, etc. Possibly volley fire as well.
3) Living quarters
Like houses, the inside should be fully decorateable in the cabins. If we are talking about a ISD or something, the hallways should be pristine white as is standard for the Imperial Military. However, sections such as the lounge, etc. should be decoratable. People should have an item storage bin or room for each player registered on the ship.
4) Hanger/ Launch Bay
This is the place where ships can come and go. Player ships can come and go at any time. Fighter ships must be launched from here. Also, ships should be able to come back during battles and be repaired by Ship Wrights who could be on station in the hanger. Any player that gets to go into space will have their own ship regardless, so having a shuttle run is not an imperative idea. If a pilot gets shot down, etc. he should be returned to the ship so he can get repaired and un injured, if this is the case.
5) Shields
There should be a station on bridge for the shielding guy. He should be able to reinforce shields on one side, etc. This guy can be important for battles, definately.
6) Sensors
A person manning the sensor sweet would enhance the sensors that the pilot already had. He could pick up specific targets maybe. Scanning for those who are important to the battle or maybe finding the weakening point in the ships shields.
7) Medical Area
There should be a medical area on board, such as the normal ground hospitals.
8) Cantina type lounge
An area for entertainers to help the ship people after battle, etc. A bartender should be present!
Now, this is kinda basic, but gives an overview of what I see the ship being like. After writing all this, I have looked at it and said hmm...that seems kinda familiar. What it reminded me of was a player city, with all the different parts, except it was based on a battleship heh. But that's maybe what it will be somewhat like. A mobile space player city or PA city, with living quarters, a hanger for travel, turrrets and defenses as a faction base, etc. Interesting, eh?
PS: I remember when we had to walk everywhere Sometimes I miss those days. Really.
Message Edited by Janson on 05-28-2004 11:52 AM
BUMP For a great idea...
Though, I have some objections.
1. The Rebel fleet is VERY small, think the fleet at the battle of endor... there were only 3 Mon Cal ships there -
The Liberty
The Independance
The Defiance
To my knoledge these were the ONLY Mon cal ships the rebels had, so it would be stupid to have 40 guilds flying around in them. Limit guilds to Smaller ships like Corvettes, or Escort cruisers etc.
2. Same goes for the Imperials, limit them too Smaller star destroyers like Interdictors or Victory Class Star Destroyers... maybe a Lance Cruiser but nothing bigger than that.
3. If there gunna be moving around make it so the 'captain' (the person flying) ( Maybe limit onlythe guild leaderflying)Controls the flying, and if there is no captain replace him with an NPC.
4. Have the ships crawling with NPCs and get them doing random tasks... EG an NPC will spawn in his quarters one day and walk out to a terminal, repair it and move on. <<< This is to prevent ships from turning into Ghost towns with only 1 player on board.
5. When there is no captain, the NPC captain should follow preset waypoints. Have several NPC fighters patrol around the ship aswell.
Thats my input, comment on it if you like
Eudaemon3 wrote:I think PA's should be allowed capital ship size by PA population. For example...a guild with 25 players allowed a Star Destroyer, while a guild with 50 players is allowed a Super Star Destroyer. There should also be a limit to the number of capital ships a guild...only a couple. And capital ships should be for PA's only.Now as for the inside of the ship...several controllable turrets like you said, cabins acting as mini houses for each crew member that you can furnish, and a docking bay where players could call their ships and go out into space. Of course there would be your medical and cloning centers and cantinas. Perhaps some ships would be able to dock damaged ships and repair them. Maybe some NPC troopers or starfighters as well.
win1
Spiike_Spiegel wrote:
first off capital ships shouls get completely destroyed, i mean come on if they are not they will eventually pile up and everyone will have one... there NEEDs to be checks in place to stop these things flying all over the place...
they should not go into someones datapad, they should be permenetly out so they are always open to attack, however to stop them from being an easy target when there is no one around, their will be AI to controll the turrets and such and maybe NPC pilots that can come out of it (perhaps that you give to the ship) make it so you give NPC pilots/ships (faction pets) with an unlimated amount that can be given to it, however only a certain amount can be out at a time... now as for why you cant just store it... people that find out that their is a raid planed on it would just store it and not have to worry about defending it
I somehow doubt you'll be able to convince SOE that anything will be able to be completely destroyed from anything other than decay(i.e. not paying maintenance). Although you could quite possibly have your ship so badly damaged that it's essentially adrift.
I think the "check", as you put it,would be the costs, both upfront and ongoing, of the ship. Now that I think about it, the structure way of going about things would probably work better for capital ships then the pet/vehicle/droid way. You have a deed and you "place it" to create the ship. While the ship is in existence you need to pay maintenance, and possibly even power, on it. Then if you so desire, if it's maintenance is at a sufficient level and it's condition is 100%, you can redeed the ship.
You have now made owning Capital Ships sufficiently cumbersome enough that only PA's willwant themand they won't necessarily have them flying around all the time, although they always could if they can keep up with the costs.
Later,
LAR
From the moment I heard they were making a space expansion to SWG (sometime back in early 2001 maybe late 2000) I've fantasized about owning a corellian corvette. Now that it looks like it's about to happen I've sobered up slightly.
I've been following this thread with great interest picking and choosing what would make it the best all around experience. Considering all the arguments made so far this is what would make the most sense.
- Limit "Capital ships" to PAs. Faction alignment shouldn't factor into whether or not you should get a capital ship or not. There should be capital ships available for Rebels, Imperals, and neutural players alike. Imps and Reb will have a dedicately military focus given their inheirent natures, but Neut should be able to be able to have something akin to cruise/passenger ships or ships that would be able to preform a harvesting function of some description. (I haven't heard anyone mention it yet, but it would be very short sighted of the devs to not impliment mineing/harvesting of some description in deep space - giving neuts an edge in harvesting would make things very interesting.)
- Make Capital ships mortal. I like the idea of capital ships as something similar to Faction HQs. As everyone is familiar with, they are very perishable. All it takes is a weekend and a dozen or so gun happy overts. Unlike their HQ counter parts, however, they should have the potental of being destroyed at all times. But it should not be easy. There should be a specific series of things that need to happen in order for a ship to be destroyed, ie in order for a ship to be destroyed first the shield generator must be taken out, this will make the engines vulnerable, once they are taken out the powerplant will become directly vulnerable, once powerplant is sufficantly devistated a count down is initiated to complete ship destruction. something like 5 mins. In this time if a shipwright (shipright?) is able to sucessfully repair (providing he has all the necessary parts and tools) this will all the powerplant to come back online - how ever it should remain vulnerable until the ship is succesfully destroyed or the enemy is warded off.
- Limit the size of Capital ships. As romantic an idea as it is to have a SSD (as I'm sure we've all fantizied about at one time or another) this should not be available to anyone. I'm even hesitant to allow for SD and Mon class ships in this vision. They're big. Too big for pvp. We don't get bases the size of the Reble fortress on Corellia for our player controled faction HQs, we shouldn't have the big capital ships for our own personal armada either. However, we all know there are differing sizes to the Faction HQs. A starting capital ship might be a large modified troop transport of some kind (think the hoth escape) to corvettes to perhaps something as large as a frigate or dreadnot. Thanx to the Xwing and tie fighter games we have quite a few smaller class capital ships we could choose from, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I love the idea of making something like SSDs POI that are mobile. We could do this for the rebel fleet also.
- Capital ships should be mobile. An immoble capital ship just plain sucks. Capital ships are ment for fleet engagements. What fun is it if you and a few other PAs gather a small fleet together but you can't go out patroling for the enemy? Also no battle is a true battle with out the option for retreat. So much fun and stratagy is removed by making a capital ship immoble (with out disabling the engines first, that is. ^_~) To my mind a ship regardless of class or size must be moble. speed and manouverability should be factored in, of course, but a ship is a large mass of mobility by definition.
- "Un-manned Capital ships." This is a little more tricky, understably. But we quite often leave our Faction HQs unguarded. (how many times have you logged in to find your city centre piece is no more?) For faction alligned ships there should be NPC controled star fighters (not as good as player ships, ofcourse) and turrets. Someone mentioned earlier about setting waypoints for the capital ship when no one is piloting. that is a stroke of genius, IMHO. You could also have an alarm system that could be purchased (at an extra cost or something like that) that would alert all members of a ship/PA that their ship is under attack. it's an idea. Another idea would be to have a non-agro 'parking lot.' Maybe a nebula or orbiting around a Faction controled planet/moon or just hanging with the local NPC fleet. I imagine that you'd have precious little to worry about if you left your ship parked in tow of the SSD (providing you were an imp, that is)
- checks and balances. This is so incredibly important it deserves so much more time than I'm willing to invest. I've never really played my hand at any artisan professions in the game so I'm really not able to speak with authority about schematics or materials or costs or manufactoring and the like. I would say, however, that it should be incredibly difficult to create and maintain, understanding that it should be worth the cost it takes. I would also suggest limiting one capital ship per PA and making the class of capital indexed to PA lvl of participation. I'm thinking about how cities are governed at this point. You have viliages, towns, cities, metropolus's based on how much a PA is willing to put into it. you could impliment something similar for capital ships. Practically speaking I'm uncertain of how to impliment this without forcing every PA to create a player city but it's an idea that might be worth further consideration.
Someone on another post felt that personal star ships should not be allowed to be summoned during battle due to grieving considerations. I disagree with this. Simply because this is war and if you attack a capital ship with 30 ships and your target is better armed/maned than you anticipated they should be allowed to defend with everything they have available. (and besides if you're smart, you'll bring a capital ship with you anyways so you could potentially do the same to them) But asking people to not use their ships in combat, which they've assumably purchased for that specific purpose, is like asking soldiers to stand in a straight line and face each other with no cover inbetween them. doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Besides destroying a capital ship is no small thing. It should take hard work, good strategy, and a lot of luck. Going up against a capital ship with only 30 dog fighters isn't the best strategy to begin with especially if you have the understanding that there just might be 30 ships in that capital ship. Not to mention how annoying it would be if you're not fighting but you deside that you want to go to Naboo when the ship is travelling to Corelia.
The only other thing I can think of to say at this point is that once built you shouldn't be able to dismantle a capital ship. (unless of course your PA is 'upgrading' to the next available capital ship.)
well, that's all I've got time for right now. I've got a few more ideas for non-faction alligned capital ships and the like.
hope this gives you guys a few more things to think about.