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Thread: Space BH MIssions....
ScReemB
Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:31 am
#14
Slarus wrote:
Why should jedi get a flight bonus if they can be tracked while in space? No one else gets a bonus in space and if jedi get another addition to their skills everyone else would want a similar addition to their jtl template based on their ground profession.
Here we go with the Jedi take ALL risks and BHs get ALL rewards. The answer is simple if you intend to hut and penalise the Jedi then you must give the Jedi his abilities to be fair.
No one should get any special profession based skills just because they are such and such a profession on the ground. The space side of things is completely different to the ground and no one should everget any special skill outwith the earned pilot ones. As i said later in my post the jedi can escape a bh far easier in space as how is the bh ever going to track which planet and hyperspace destination they have jumped to as there are so many.
The idea of space bounties is one which is good but unlikely to work effectively as its far too easy to escape in space from a group hunting you than a group on the ground.
So no additional space skills for jedis or anyone else for that matter as if one gets it everyone will want it and then the arguements will really begin.
Mael_BH
Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:20 am
#15
in truth i really don't care about the decay i just said 0 decay because now our only fully PvP zone has zero decay, so i figured people would want it that way.
oh yeah, that "no less than 10%" was a typo, i did mean no "more" than 10%.
oh yeah, that "no less than 10%" was a typo, i did mean no "more" than 10%.
Message Edited by Mael_BH on 01-07-2005 01:56 PM
BruSwillis
Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:48 am
#16
lexington23 wrote:
If they impliment BH tracking jedi players into space, then they better impliment jedi flight bonuses as well.
lol what a stupid statement, why the hell should they impliment Jedi flight bonuses? If you suck in space that's your problem not the Devs.
Slarus
Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:30 pm
#17
All this stuff amounts to is ZERO risk for BHs and ALL reward, Zero reward and ALL risks for the Jedi.
Either give the Jedi thier force abilities in space, allow them to gain Jedi XP,and have the hunts in space or dont have hunts in space those are the choices. Not allowing Jedi any Jedi ability or the ability to gain XP but allowing BHs to gang up on them in every facet of the game is unbalanced, even more so then the broken useless Ground hunting is.
The BH hunts are unfair, unbalanced and do NOTHING but dtroke the ego of the 12 year olds who play BHs, why put that mess into space which has enough problems without a proven broken useless ego boost?
Nikati
Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:08 pm
#18
You know I am so tiered of hearing this debate everywhere. You know if you choose to go Jedi you need to realive that you will have a bounty on your head wherever you go, that is the price of having the powers and going down that path. If you don't want the problems of being a jedi then don't be one. hmm isn't that simple??? As far as hunting jedi in space it would be very difficult to do being able to jump to another system in a couple seconds. I agree they should have there own ship and the force powers they get in the village if they choose that line but that's it. The jedi life isn't an easy life in the movies so why should it be here. If you remember Ben almost got killed by Jango pretty easy but he used what he had to work with to get away. It is not far to hamper the BH by being in space and it's not hampering the jedi by being hunted there. As a jedi you always need to watch over your shoulder, that's the life of a jedi. Remember episode one one the trade federation ship when they tried to gas them? Jedi can be attacked anywhere in the movies and since this game is movie based then everything should be similar as possible. I fell if it follows the movies then i don't have a problem but if it goes against what Lucas had setup then i don't agree with it even if it benefits me. And i do think it would be kool if BH could do BH missions in space and have a guild like smuggler but i think they need to fix some of the problems the have now with current professions before they even think about anything like that.
Last thing that's not related really. If you can't hack being a Jedi then give it up and play as a regular person. I have more fun being a regular player than a Jedi ever could. Where is the excitement if you are so strong that you can kill anything and don't need to fear nothing. Pushing the envelope and almost dieing is where the fun is not just walking around and knowing you don't have to try to even live. As a jedi your only real challenge is the BH that's where the excitement is suppose to be for you Jedi not where you put all your effort complaining about. I see a few overt jedi running around my galaxy every time i play and most of the time they are by themself and hoping for a BH to come LOLOL. So if they can do it why do so many Jedi complain about everything?
Sorry for taking room up on your forum but I had to say it
Sorry for taking room up on your forum but I had to say it
Slarus
Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:29 am
#19
You know I am so tiered of hearing this debate everywhere. You know if you choose to go Jedi you need to realive that you will have a bounty on your head wherever you go, that is the price of having the powers and going down that path. If you don't want the problems of being a jedi then don't be one. hmm isn't that simple???
Being able to hack a Jedi and enjoying the game are two different things. You clearly have no clue what the problem is, you seem to think folks want it easy, sorry folks want it fair. The average Jedi is not any more potent combat wise then the average Elite profession so they have no advantage. The BH hunts were intended to keep the population low, an obsurd idea from the concept, and that doesnt work naturally. Jedi are the ONLY class to have quest to get into, lose XP on death and gain NOTHING from fighting thier hunters. Sure one could simply not be a Jedi, but instead of ignoring the problem isnt it better to address how broken it is? I think so.
As far as hunting jedi in space it would be very difficult to do being able to jump to another system in a couple seconds. I agree they should have there own ship and the force powers they get in the village if they choose that line but that's it. The jedi life isn't an easy life in the movies so why should it be here. If you remember Ben almost got killed by Jango pretty easy but he used what he had to work with to get away.
The problem isnt about being realistic it is about fair and balanced and enjoyable play, fewer Jedi then BHs like being hunted, it is unbalance broken and serves ZERO purpose. Why mess up JTL?
It is not far to hamper the BH by being in space and it's not hampering the jedi by being hunted there. As a jedi you always need to watch over your shoulder, that's the life of a jedi. Remember episode one one the trade federation ship when they tried to gas them? Jedi can be attacked anywhere in the movies and since this game is movie based then everything should be similar as possible. I fell if it follows the movies then i don't have a problem but if it goes against what Lucas had setup then i don't agree with it even if it benefits me. And i do think it would be kool if BH could do BH missions in space and have a guild like smuggler but i think they need to fix some of the problems the have now with current professions before they even think about anything like that.
Last thing that's not related really. If you can't hack being a Jedi then give it up and play as a regular person. I have more fun being a regular player than a Jedi ever could. Where is the excitement if you are so strong that you can kill anything and don't need to fear nothing. Pushing the envelope and almost dieing is where the fun is not just walking around and knowing you don't have to try to even live. As a jedi your only real challenge is the BH that's where the excitement is suppose to be for you Jedi not where you put all your effort complaining about. I see a few overt jedi running around my galaxy every time i play and most of the time they are by themself and hoping for a BH to come LOLOL. So if they can do it why do so many Jedi complain about everything? Sorry for taking room up on your forum but I had to say it
Again you advocate ignoring the problem rather then fixing it, I hate to say it but that is ignorance in mass, it is why the problem is so persistant, that and no one has forethought enough to suggest a radical change. BH hunt accomplishes nothing, it only benifits the BH and that is unbalanced. Jedi shouldnt be forced into PvP by other players, it breaks SOE's rule about concenual play they know but like you all they ignore it too.
Fix the system then figure out how it should work in space, period.
Camulose
Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:39 pm
#20
How about this... Nerf th whole Jedi/BH thing altogether. Make it so ther is only 5% chance of a cahracter becoming a Jedi at creation. To find out if a character is force sensitive then /check would start out as the force is with you, then the character can A do the quest to become a jedi as it is now.
Once a Jedi Knight just as now you are PVP, BUT Only Master BH that has finished a series of quests to Become a JEDI Hunter Can hunt PVP Jedi, because to Jedi, The Jedi Hunter is PVP all the time as well.
The way this ties in to JTL is Jedi are ALWAYS visable, to Jedi hunting Master BH, as so he is to the Jedi. For the rest of BHs, NPC Jedi will exsist. I feel that if you choose to be a Jedi, you should suffer the consiquences. Remember to gain vis period, you have to use your Jedi powers. You use powers you gain vis, an get hunted. The curent situation does fall in line with the movies, except for the fact there are too freakin many Jedi on all of the servers. I say Space is NO escape. ok Jedi are vis in space, NBD, so give the "force in space" +2% YPR per box in Jedi reflexes, what ever... The ARE TOO MANY JEDI IN THE GAME AS IT IS.
the OTHER Majore Issue is Gank squads. I hope that my suggestion would cut down on gank squads. A total abuse, and diversion form the Starwars universe. But that is up to the players to control. Not the devs.
That is my 2 credits.
Once a Jedi Knight just as now you are PVP, BUT Only Master BH that has finished a series of quests to Become a JEDI Hunter Can hunt PVP Jedi, because to Jedi, The Jedi Hunter is PVP all the time as well.
The way this ties in to JTL is Jedi are ALWAYS visable, to Jedi hunting Master BH, as so he is to the Jedi. For the rest of BHs, NPC Jedi will exsist. I feel that if you choose to be a Jedi, you should suffer the consiquences. Remember to gain vis period, you have to use your Jedi powers. You use powers you gain vis, an get hunted. The curent situation does fall in line with the movies, except for the fact there are too freakin many Jedi on all of the servers. I say Space is NO escape. ok Jedi are vis in space, NBD, so give the "force in space" +2% YPR per box in Jedi reflexes, what ever... The ARE TOO MANY JEDI IN THE GAME AS IT IS.
the OTHER Majore Issue is Gank squads. I hope that my suggestion would cut down on gank squads. A total abuse, and diversion form the Starwars universe. But that is up to the players to control. Not the devs.
That is my 2 credits.
NasherUK
Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:18 pm
#22
BH is a profession for hunting jedi and thats about it's only content (currently), jedi players know this and take up being a jedi knowing it, thats how the system works and it should apply to space too. BH should be able to attack their target in space if they see them, but not track them there (they should remove player names from ships and only display the ship's name, so BHs have to scan targets and find the mark before they can attack). NO ONE should get any bonuses to pilot skills because its real-time combat, not number based like on the ground.
Message Edited by NasherUK on 01-09-2005 04:21 PM
GregorianPipes
Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:55 pm
#23
About your mark escaping into hyperspace, the BH could be notified of the mark's escape vector (a message telling you what system they jumped to).
They would have to really change the PvP damage rate in these types of PvP situations. If a BH has their mark in their targeting reticle, it simply wouldn't do for a 3 or 4 shot win. I believe this should change for all PvP for that matter. How much fun is it really to take out another player's ship in 3-4 shots.
If a Jedi lost less or no force xp in space, here's what would happen. As soon as a Jedi realizes a BH is on their tail, they would simply launch into space and stay there. Whether they keep running or simply let the BH kill them, it would be better than dying on the ground. Basically, you give people an option that facilitates gameplay and they will abuse it.
As for Jedi as a whole, I didn't travel that path because the risk was not worth the reward, at least for me. In my opinion, just being a jedi and using a lightsaber IS the reward. But for me it wasn't worth the forced PvP and BH hunts. I just have to disagree when people say that there is no reward for jedi. The only question is whether the reward is worth the risk. For me, it wasn't.
That's it, I'm done. One-star away.
They would have to really change the PvP damage rate in these types of PvP situations. If a BH has their mark in their targeting reticle, it simply wouldn't do for a 3 or 4 shot win. I believe this should change for all PvP for that matter. How much fun is it really to take out another player's ship in 3-4 shots.
If a Jedi lost less or no force xp in space, here's what would happen. As soon as a Jedi realizes a BH is on their tail, they would simply launch into space and stay there. Whether they keep running or simply let the BH kill them, it would be better than dying on the ground. Basically, you give people an option that facilitates gameplay and they will abuse it.
As for Jedi as a whole, I didn't travel that path because the risk was not worth the reward, at least for me. In my opinion, just being a jedi and using a lightsaber IS the reward. But for me it wasn't worth the forced PvP and BH hunts. I just have to disagree when people say that there is no reward for jedi. The only question is whether the reward is worth the risk. For me, it wasn't.
That's it, I'm done. One-star away.
Slarus
Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:21 pm
#24
How about this... Nerf th whole Jedi/BH thing altogether. Make it so ther is only 5% chance of a cahracter becoming a Jedi at creation. To find out if a character is force sensitive then /check would start out as the force is with you, then the character can A do the quest to become a jedi as it is now.
Or how about ANYONE who wants to be a Jedi in oh Star Wars where Jedi were invented can be one, make it a starting profession, screw the "rare" horsehokey it's bogus anyway since this is only BASED on Star Wars.
Once a Jedi Knight just as now you are PVP, BUT Only Master BH that has finished a series of quests to Become a JEDI Hunter Can hunt PVP Jedi, because to Jedi, The Jedi Hunter is PVP all the time as well.
Once a Jedi Knight just as now you are PVP, BUT Only Master BH that has finished a series of quests to Become a JEDI Hunter Can hunt PVP Jedi, because to Jedi, The Jedi Hunter is PVP all the time as well.
And Forced PvP which is already in the game and doesnt work, gets to go away since Jedi is a starting profession. Forcing PvP does nothing productive it drives away a player base that many have resulted in large numbers of subscribers.
Your not offering a solution, your offering pretty much what we already have. The trouble I tend to see around here is no one thinks outside the box. PvE with PvP optional Jedi can work,Force sensitivebeing a Starting profession can work.
The way this ties in to JTL is Jedi are ALWAYS visable, to Jedi hunting Master BH, as so he is to the Jedi. For the rest of BHs, NPC Jedi will exsist. I feel that if you choose to be a Jedi, you should suffer the consiquences.
And you think this only because the Devs have implied it with the broken current system, no other game expresses this.
Remember to gain vis period, you have to use your Jedi powers. You use powers you gain vis, an get hunted. The curent situation does fall in line with the movies, except for the fact there are too freakin many Jedi on all of the servers. I say Space is NO escape. ok Jedi are vis in space, NBD, so give the "force in space" +2% YPR per box in Jedi reflexes, what ever... The ARE TOO MANY JEDI IN THE GAME AS IT IS.
the OTHER Majore Issue is Gank squads. I hope that my suggestion would cut down on gank squads. A total abuse, and diversion form the Starwars universe. But that is up to the players to control. Not the devs.
That is my 2 credits.
the OTHER Majore Issue is Gank squads. I hope that my suggestion would cut down on gank squads. A total abuse, and diversion form the Starwars universe. But that is up to the players to control. Not the devs.
That is my 2 credits.
What this presents is a minor variation on what exsists on the ground adapted to space, nothing orginal. There are not too many Jedi, no one can prove it. Yoda was clearly not all seeing as a Sith Lord was under his nose, that being said a Sith Lord is also not all seeing, so they cant possibly hunt EVERY Jedi down, the absolute logic is flawed, there cannot be such extremes of absolutes we see this in the movies. Obi-Wan knew about Luke but forgot about Leia "That boy was our last hope", "No there is another" right after talking about Leia being Luke's sister, and if Leia wasnt the "Other" who was? Guess Vadar didnt catch either of them Luke or this "Other" Yoda mentioned.
That being said even if you insisted on assigning "rarity" to Jedi players how does one determine rare, is it a fixed number? A percentage? what? A fixed number is unfair as the server population fluxuates too much to be that finite. A percentage is flawed as one has to be abitrary to pick a number. Keep in mind Players are the quote heroes and are a minority, even though there are more PCs then NPCs we are considered a minority being that Corellia has Billions of people on itdespite not having their presence in game. So if there are 20,000 players on one server and 18,000 are Jedi 18,000 out of a few billion is pretty rare, but 18,000 out of 20,000 is not, what makes A wrong and B right? Nothing. So player Force sensitives at character creation can be expressed as being very rare even if amoung the player population it is the majority. Thus Force sensitives at character creation, and being Consensual PvP like ALL other professions islogical.
Slarus
Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:37 pm
#25
About your mark escaping into hyperspace, the BH could be notified of the mark's escape vector (a message telling you what system they jumped to).
They would have to really change the PvP damage rate in these types of PvP situations. If a BH has their mark in their targeting reticle, it simply wouldn't do for a 3 or 4 shot win. I believe this should change for all PvP for that matter. How much fun is it really to take out another player's ship in 3-4 shots.
If a Jedi lost less or no force xp in space, here's what would happen. As soon as a Jedi realizes a BH is on their tail, they would simply launch into space and stay there. Whether they keep running or simply let the BH kill them, it would be better than dying on the ground. Basically, you give people an option that facilitates gameplay and they will abuse it.
As for Jedi as a whole, I didn't travel that path because the risk was not worth the reward, at least for me. In my opinion, just being a jedi and using a lightsaber IS the reward. But for me it wasn't worth the forced PvP and BH hunts. I just have to disagree when people say that there is no reward for jedi. The only question is whether the reward is worth the risk. For me, it wasn't.
That's it, I'm done. One-star away.
They would have to really change the PvP damage rate in these types of PvP situations. If a BH has their mark in their targeting reticle, it simply wouldn't do for a 3 or 4 shot win. I believe this should change for all PvP for that matter. How much fun is it really to take out another player's ship in 3-4 shots.
If a Jedi lost less or no force xp in space, here's what would happen. As soon as a Jedi realizes a BH is on their tail, they would simply launch into space and stay there. Whether they keep running or simply let the BH kill them, it would be better than dying on the ground. Basically, you give people an option that facilitates gameplay and they will abuse it.
As for Jedi as a whole, I didn't travel that path because the risk was not worth the reward, at least for me. In my opinion, just being a jedi and using a lightsaber IS the reward. But for me it wasn't worth the forced PvP and BH hunts. I just have to disagree when people say that there is no reward for jedi. The only question is whether the reward is worth the risk. For me, it wasn't.
That's it, I'm done. One-star away.
Bravo, the system doesnt work, why keep coming up with ideas that are basically the same as it is now?
Forced PvP is wrong the Devs have said it, they changed JTL to support it, yet they kept a system they ADMITTED was wrong and no one questions that system, instead ALL these ideas are variations on the same flawed theme.
In my previous post I showed two ways in which whoever wanted to could be a Jedi, two ways. Jedi is part, a major part of Star Wars EVERY movie had 1+ Jedi almost every game, book and comic has 1+ Jedi or to a lesser degree a Force sensitive, why must we have a fuax rarity that no one knows how to define be the absolute judge. Too many Jedi 100,000 out of a Billion is pretty rare, Corellia has what like 6 Billion, 100,000 is rare out of that many, plus Tatoonie and the other planets 100,000 Jedi is a drop in the bucket compared to the vast numbers of "people" that should in a Roleplaying sense exsist. If Force sensitives were a character creation option, not EVERY player would do it anyway, there are ALOT of TKMs but not EVERYONE does it, so logically not EVERY subscriber on one server would choose Jedi, and some that do would back out of it later if they could. Making it a regular profession would be a much better "control" as folks will do something else, or move on. If Jedi had no restrictions like a regular profession and EVERYONE became a Jedi, then why isnt 100% of the game now, TKMs or BHs? Simple some folks have different tastes, some would try it and leave, the system would work, just as well as it does for the other 35 professions.
Dont hear anyone say their are too many pilots, ANYONE can be a pilot no matter what they do on the ground, but A, we dont have 100% of the players being pilots and B, no one cares at the disparity that created. Where in the Star Wars movie did we see 100% of the characters that traveled into space, also being able to pilot themselves (This is based on if you bought JTL you would become a pilot, as the expansion is not useful by not being a pilot at all. The profession is free.) Cry there are too many pilots if you want to gripe about Jedi.
Mael_BH
Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:15 am
#26
Bravo, the system doesnt work, why keep coming up with ideas that are basically the same as it is now?
Forced PvP is wrong the Devs have said it, they changed JTL to support it, yet they kept a system they ADMITTED was wrong and no one questions that system, instead ALL these ideas are variations on the same flawed theme.
In my previous post I showed two ways in which whoever wanted to could be a Jedi, two ways. Jedi is part, a major part of Star Wars EVERY movie had 1+ Jedi almost every game, book and comic has 1+ Jedi or to a lesser degree a Force sensitive, why must we have a fuax rarity that no one knows how to define be the absolute judge. Too many Jedi 100,000 out of a Billion is pretty rare, Corellia has what like 6 Billion, 100,000 is rare out of that many, plus Tatoonie and the other planets 100,000 Jedi is a drop in the bucket compared to the vast numbers of "people" that should in a Roleplaying sense exsist. If Force sensitives were a character creation option, not EVERY player would do it anyway, there are ALOT of TKMs but not EVERYONE does it, so logically not EVERY subscriber on one server would choose Jedi, and some that do would back out of it later if they could. Making it a regular profession would be a much better "control" as folks will do something else, or move on. If Jedi had no restrictions like a regular profession and EVERYONE became a Jedi, then why isnt 100% of the game now, TKMs or BHs? Simple some folks have different tastes, some would try it and leave, the system would work, just as well as it does for the other 35 professions.
Dont hear anyone say their are too many pilots, ANYONE can be a pilot no matter what they do on the ground, but A, we dont have 100% of the players being pilots and B, no one cares at the disparity that created. Where in the Star Wars movie did we see 100% of the characters that traveled into space, also being able to pilot themselves (This is based on if you bought JTL you would become a pilot, as the expansion is not useful by not being a pilot at all. The profession is free.) Cry there are too many pilots if you want to gripe about Jedi.
first i would like to ask where/when did the devs say forced PvP was wrong?
second, Jedi/BH PvP is not exactly forced as anyone that plays as a Jedi should know by now that there is basically a 100% chance that they will be hunted by BH at some point so you know what you are getting into when you start. there is also no risk for jedi with a finished template as they don't care about xp loss, there is only a risk for low level jedi.
third, if you read some of these posts here (like mine) most of us don't even want jedi to loose xp from a kill in space (seems silly if you can't gain xp in space why should you loose it). also, please remember that getting blown up in space does not count as getting killed as we don't clone. i and others simply want to be able to continue the hunt no matter where you try to hide. in truth i don't care about you loosing xp at all. if you didn't loose the xp on the ground either i wouldn't care, its all about the hunt not causing jedi grief or heart ache.