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Thread: Why isnt there any high lvl TIE/in Z-95 or Scyk for players
Hellscream420
Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:14 pm
#14
Thats what im saying, I alsoam a 4433 priveteer using a Rihkxyrk Heavy Fighter, anyone that can use that ship, IS using it,because its the most versitile, having 3 blaster mounts and an ordinience mount, plus super high mass, to add high lvl armor and shields etc. I would really like to see some moreships at higher tiers, adding new tier specific versions of exsisting ships would add a great deal of choices. It should be balanced though, a tier 5 z-95 shouldn't have the same mass as a firespray, it should be considerablyless,but higher then its tier 1-4 counter-parts, to make a viable alternative to the 'master lvl only' ships.
Aden_Nak
Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:36 pm
#16
Mass needs to be in the game, because it keeps the ships relatively comperable to their theoretical stats. If you remove mass from the game, everyone will simply take either the fastest ship or the ship with the most guns, because there will be no reason not to.
I'm going through Tier 4 with my Longprobe, and I don't plan on switching out at any point in the future. Just because "conventional wisdom" tells us that you need to use a Tier 4 or Tier 5 ship in endgame, that doesn't mean it's true. "Conventional wisdom" also once held that the Earth was flat and the moon was made of cheese.
With the exception of the Tier 1 ships (which generally lack the mass to be anything but space debris), most ships are endgame-capable, if you set them up with the right loadout.
I'm going through Tier 4 with my Longprobe, and I don't plan on switching out at any point in the future. Just because "conventional wisdom" tells us that you need to use a Tier 4 or Tier 5 ship in endgame, that doesn't mean it's true. "Conventional wisdom" also once held that the Earth was flat and the moon was made of cheese.
With the exception of the Tier 1 ships (which generally lack the mass to be anything but space debris), most ships are endgame-capable, if you set them up with the right loadout.
Starson
Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:41 pm
#17
Aden_Nak wrote:
Mass needs to be in the game, because it keeps the ships relatively comperable to their theoretical stats. If you remove mass from the game, everyone will simply take either the fastest ship or the ship with the most guns, because there will be no reason not to.
I'm going through Tier 4 with my Longprobe, and I don't plan on switching out at any point in the future. Just because "conventional wisdom" tells us that you need to use a Tier 4 or Tier 5 ship in endgame, that doesn't mean it's true. "Conventional wisdom" also once held that the Earth was flat and the moon was made of cheese.
With the exception of the Tier 1 ships (which generally lack the mass to be anything but space debris), most ships are endgame-capable, if you set them up with the right loadout.
This is very true, depends on what type of ship you perfer to fly, and a good group will have all types of ship's.....ie the corrvette, master mission, comes to mind. I hope when I get there a few of my guildies still use their ywings, 'cause they where made to take out cap ships.
Citairen_Mugarrii
Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:42 pm
#18
Aden_Nak wrote:
Mass needs to be in the game, because it keeps the ships relatively comperable to their theoretical stats. If you remove mass from the game, everyone will simply take either the fastest ship or the ship with the most guns, because there will be no reason not to.
I'm going through Tier 4 with my Longprobe, and I don't plan on switching out at any point in the future. Just because "conventional wisdom" tells us that you need to use a Tier 4 or Tier 5 ship in endgame, that doesn't mean it's true. "Conventional wisdom" also once held that the Earth was flat and the moon was made of cheese.
With the exception of the Tier 1 ships (which generally lack the mass to be anything but space debris), most ships are endgame-capable, if you set them up with the right loadout.
They sure are if you are rebel. Or to a degree the new post buff neuts.
The theoretical stats are largely taken care of by the chassis mods, the mass differences are a good idea, they just are a little too extreme as is.
Vegitaa
Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:25 pm
#19
Well after flying all the imperial ships in Beta I really wanted only a couple in live.
TIE Interceptor = I just love these, so right now 3322 pilot, I loaded one up with no armour, no booster, a good lvl 6 engine and some lvl 7 ion's. Went to Kessel and smacked some AWings around. Again, lots of fun and was a bit immersive because well, TIE's aren't supposed to have shields. So I remanaged it without shields, put armour on it, and maxed the weapons/engine. It's hard as heck to fight sometimes without that booster but I ended up taking down numerous tier5 AWings with my little Intercepter.
TIE Bomber = Ok, so I have this as my tank for obvious reasons. Of course it's slow as heck to turn but capable all in all. Brought it right to the brink with all lvl7 equip including protons and spacebombs (as it should be!). Of course, this is no Interceptor. It was fun to take out tier4 hutt's in endor and I even got a clean kill on a YT while I was at it. The speed was annoying and turning like a bus bites. Again, had fun.. looking forward to my Advanced I must admit.
Now, once I finally hit master I'm sure I will buy an aggresor, advanced, opprseor, and Devistator along my way. From what I did in Beta I believe I will mainly fly the Advanced (for fighter), Devastator (for fun with buddies) and Sorosub (as my second home in space).
I just redeed my ships as I advance so I'm sure I will revisit them each for fun throughout my pilot career. To me the fun part is mixing and matching the gear to see if I can be viable in different zones. Removing the shields, boosters, launchers, droid systems and chaff from your TIE really does open up your possibilites in regards to mass. Kinda fun flying a TIE/IN with lvl 7 blasters too.
In my opnion it's an answer to all those before launch who argued that TIE's didn't have shields etc, well most of mine don't.
IonControl
Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:41 pm
#20
Hellscream420 wrote:
oh oppsbut still you should be able to cruise around ina z-95 "headhunter"as amaster pilot and be able to kill tier 4-5 stuff, as it is you have to use low lvl items to fit on the smaller mass, you might be able to fit 1 or 2 lvl 8,9 or 10 items intoa ship but it leaves little room to use the high lvl items needed to hunt anything beyond teir 2-3. Even an A-wing would benefit from a tier 5, master pilot's only, ship, with slightly more mass then its tier 4 equilivilent
Gotta disagree here. Didn't see many Z-95s charging into battle over Endor. The starter ships are exactly that: starters...
Hellscream420
Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:13 pm
#21
there was many xwings ywings awings bwings and many others, your rightI don't remember seeing any z-95s in the battle of endor but it wasnt ALL awings orALL tie opressors either, Im just trying to put out an idea that would increase ships choices for masters and provide tons of diversity in space, right now its fine, everyone is different lvl using different tier ships, but what happens when everyone is master... only a few ships will even be used,I dont think many people will be using the decimatoror thenovafor pvp and even in pve, and who would use a 125k mass xwing (not sure on the cap on xwing) when the master ships are closer to 200k and up to 4 mil. If they could add anything I would want them to make newversions of low tier ships that arecloser to the tier 4 or 5 ships mass size so that it will feel more like the battle of endor instead of thebattle ofawings and opressors.
Hellscream420
Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:50 pm
#22
"With the exception of the Tier 1 ships (which generally lack the mass to be anything but space debris), most ships are endgame-capable, if you set them up with the right loadout."
Im not saying that we are forced to use higher lvl ships, I just feel thatif you want to use a TIE/ininstead of aTIE oppressoryou can, but you should still be able to use your lvl 10 items in it, sure most ships are "endgame-capable", not that there is an end to this game, but you have to sacrifice TOO much to even get all the items you'll need to make a low tier ship capableof even survivinga few high lvl ships. Say if you put a lvl 7 shield and 2 lvl 7 armor plates (avg 10k-20k mass)into a tier 3 kimogila (mine had 82k mass not sure of cap) this leaves you with about 22k-52k mass left thats not including reactor weapons engine and capacitor... not very much room, which DOES force us to use lower mass items instead, causing weaker ships and players moving up to higher tier, more mass chassis. I highly doubt you would be able to place your lvl 7 subsystems like counter-measures, droid interfaces, and boostersinto a tier 3kimogilia AND still have room for for all your primary systems.
This is just an example and not EXACT, I know not every low mass, low lvl item isnt good becauseI have a pretty uber lvl 4 capacitor thats better then most lvl 7s, but the majority of low lvl items are not very good. Providing new versions of current ships would give usthe option to use aour higher lvl items without having to sacrifice the use of droid computersand boosters, or even shields and armor in some cases, to make it all fit.
Hellscream420
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:40 pm
#23
"Gotta disagree here. Didn't see many Z-95s charging into battle over Endor. The starter ships are exactly that: starters... "
Where z-95s in any of the movies? I may have seen one and thought it was an X-wing but i dont remember seeing any specific ships that where z-95s
Kinshi
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:50 pm
#24
Well if people would realize that by flying a Z95 as much as possible will make yoou a better pilot (in terms of honing your personal reflexes and response times, then there might be a market for them.
BUT people being people, like the easy way better, so they will buy the 'best' ship (highest tier) they can get. Their physical piloting skills will suck hard but then most everyone elses pilot skills will suck as bad so they are a match.
However, a 'real' ace, would get as good as they can get on the lowest tier, so they can learn good manuvering with the joystick and damage avoidance skills, as such they will learn how to come about get on an enemie's tail, shake a tail, etc, in a fast and efficient manner (if you are taking hits then you are flying bad, plain and simple) I dont care how big your ship is, if you keep letting yourself get hit, you will go down.
Now take a pilot who progessing with every ship, has pushed them all to the limits, this is the one who will OWN you in Deep Space as soon as he sees you, and regardless of what he is flying, you will have a devil of a time doing any damage to him, and hes likely to be on your tail for the whole encounter.
BUT people being people, like the easy way better, so they will buy the 'best' ship (highest tier) they can get. Their physical piloting skills will suck hard but then most everyone elses pilot skills will suck as bad so they are a match.
However, a 'real' ace, would get as good as they can get on the lowest tier, so they can learn good manuvering with the joystick and damage avoidance skills, as such they will learn how to come about get on an enemie's tail, shake a tail, etc, in a fast and efficient manner (if you are taking hits then you are flying bad, plain and simple) I dont care how big your ship is, if you keep letting yourself get hit, you will go down.
Now take a pilot who progessing with every ship, has pushed them all to the limits, this is the one who will OWN you in Deep Space as soon as he sees you, and regardless of what he is flying, you will have a devil of a time doing any damage to him, and hes likely to be on your tail for the whole encounter.
falacy
Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:22 pm
#25
Another thing to keep in mind is that hardly anyone bothers to use excellent or amazing resources on ship chassis, because it's mostly a waste. So, all though the mass would be pretty low compaired to a y-wing longprobe or an x-wing, you can soup up a Z-95 quite a bit.
Being so busy as a shipwright, I'm still a 1010 pilot. I'm flying with a 61.4 speed looted engine, a wicked looted capacitor and a nice blaster that I made. If I can get in behind a teir 3 ship, I can stay there and take it out. However, even with my armour, I generally get blown out of the sky in short order if a teir 3 ship gets behind me.
Though I totally see where you're coming from, I think it's good the way it is. You CAN get a great low level ship, it just won't be great at everything!
Hellscream420
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:25 pm
#26
ya I can understand you can make a good low lvl ship, but take that same ship put some lvl 7 items in itand head to dathimor, no matter what you add to a low lvl ship it will never be able to compete with thehigherlvl ships. You may be able to kill tier 3 ships one at a time as a1010 pilot,I knowI was able to also, but even as a master pilot you still will only be able to kill tier 3npc in that same ship, you may put a good weapon in or an awesome shield but that means you'll have to sacrifice some otherawesome item, a booster, counter-meassures, whatever. All Im saying is thathigh tier players should havetheoption to kill the same oppenents using different ships.