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Nitwit wrote:

PvP does not need to be lowered! Have you tried flying against an Advanced or A-Wing? You can't hit those suckers if you wanted to. A good pilot can choose such a unperdictiable path, if you had to hit them 10 times you would fight for 5 minutes. What a boring waste of time. PvP in space needs to be quick.

Someone had already started this tread a while back. If you want more of an explination of why PvP shouldn't be lowered, read this: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lightspeed&message.id=164460&page=1

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i do agree with u that the awings and faster lighter fighters should definitely have the advantage of being very difficult to hit. but i also feel that the heavier and medium fighters advantage should be their higher mass. the heavy fighters can support the highend shields and armor. but since pvp damage is so high and it takes so few shots to kill an opponent this advantage is completely negated. as someone also said in this thread an awing can kill one of the multi player ships in only a few shots which i think further illustrates the point.

Message Edited by Ditolus on 01-12-2005 09:12 PM

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Jonboy_ wrote:

1v1 PvP battles should last for 10-15 seconds of _continuous_ hits.

When balancing, players attempting to run awayfrom a fight should be considered too.

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Umm, it's hard enough to hit somebody once in PvP, muchless 10 seconds of CONTINUOUS hits...

Anyway, like somebody said before, WO3 is the main cause for one hit kills.

I did some testing with a L1 gun that was 331.4-334.1 damage (crafted with a min damage upgrade, experimented for min damage to reduce the random variance to esentially 0, the gun does 330 damage)

WO1: +25%
WO2: +50%
WO3: +100%
WO4: -50%

Yes, that's right, WO4 makes you do less damage for about 10x the cap drain, tried it several times. WO3 may or nay not be bugged as far as damage increase, it's possible that WO4 should be a 200% damage increase, however the fact that WO3 uses less energy per shot instead of more, like every other WO, is a definite bug.

Space PvP can't be too many hits now that they added CtSS and CO commands. Otherwise the only way to kill somebody would be gank squads. Myself and a rebel ace routinely meet each other in combat in deep space. I've fought him in both his x-wing and a-wing, and in both cases we've managed to sustain quite long fights, considering one hit kills, 20-30 seconds is a normal 1v1 fight between he and I, and we are both excellent pilots.

There are 3 cases in 1v1space PvP that you are likely to see: 1 good pilot vs 1 good pilot, 1 good pilot vs 1 bad pilot, and 1 bad pilot vs 1 bad pilot. Were space PvP reduced to 75% here's what would happen. Assume it now takes 1 shot to kill somebody in space, after the reduction it would now take 4, also consider that starship weapon fire delay is generally .4 or less, sometimes less than .3, and most use 2-3 guns on thier PvP ships, so the average time to get off 4 shots is still less than a second, often times less than half a second, unless you're in an a-wing, which case it's still likely less than 1.5 seconds.

1 bad vs 1 bad: The two pilots see each other, rush at each other guns blazing (just like they do now) and it comes down to a contest of who has the best shields and guns (just like it is now). Net result, nothing changes

1 good vs 1 bad: The two pilots see each other, the bad pilot rushes at the good pilot guns blazing, the good pilot laughs, banks up does a 3D boosted turn, comes in on the bad pilot's 6, and unleashes his guns into the bad pilots aft shields, while the bad pilot thinks "hey! AI never does that!!!". Net result, nothing changes

1 good vs 1 good: The two pilots see each other and begin to make thier cautious approach. As they near they begin to spin and twirl, performing moves the AI could never dream of, spining and sliding as they vie for the upper hand. The two dance the dance of death. Eventually one will zig where they should have zagged, landing them dead in the crosshair of the enemy, who takes the oppertunity and shoots. Now one of thier shields is down to half but they see they are losing the dance and disengage to come and approach again. In the mean time they dump thier 2400+ capacitor charge (thanks to CO4)into thier shields almost fully recharging them. The dance begins again, twirling and spinning, sliding across the dance floor, but nobody can hit. Oh look, the cap is recharged, dump back into shields, now the shields are back to 100% on both parties, and the dance continues, and continues, because nobody can land more than one or two shots on the opponent at a time, the shields never drop, CtSS recharges them in a hurry. Net result, nobody ever wins.

I used to be big on the 75% damage reduction side until I started going up against other good pilots. Since they added CO and CtSS commands however, those days are gone. Besides, I really don't want a dog fight lasting 3-5 minutes. Dogfighting against another good pilot (or against more than one other good pilot...) is WAY high on the rush scale, and those were all 30-60 second fights tops, 30-60 VERY intense seconds (heck it could have been like 10 seconds it just seemed like a minute...). If you're having problems with your fights being over before they start, first make sure you have a joystick with a throttle control and twist action, next find out someone on your server who is good at space PvP and ask them to mentor you, start a fighter squadron, practice against each other, encourage your foes to do the same, stage large fights.

25% reduction wouldn't be so bad, I think even 50% is too much, 75% is way too much. Most I could see would be 35-40% reduction, because you need to be able to reliably penetrate the shielding in one shot to do actual damage, or at least take it down to almost nothing, otherwise CtSS will just "stim" the damage away before you can get another hit in. Honestly fixing WO3 would solve a LOT of PvP problems. That's a 50% reduction right there unless they chose to keep using it despite heafty cap usage costs (which would limit thier fireduration and ability to recharge thier shields after taking a hit)

For the record I fly a heavily modified Oppressor, which if you look at the stats on the sticky in the pilots forum you will see has marginally better handling than a y-wing (100/100/50 YPR vs 80/80/40 on the Y), and 1/2 to 1/3 the handling of an x-wing or a-wing. I keep all my gear in good condition however and I CAN take a few hits, and routinely do against a-wings. However thanks to good shields and armor, as well as high condition components, even with bugged WO3 I stay alive, it generally takes at least 2, often times 3 hits to fully take me down.

Message Edited by Eaca on 01-12-2005 11:55 PM

Message Edited by Ditolus on 01-12-2005 12:31 PM

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AzzixxSWG wrote:

PvP damage needs to be reduced 75% not 25%. A PvP fight should last atleast 3 minutes in a 1 on 1 battle.

Thats my 2k credits.

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3 minutes is way too long

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AzzixxSWG wrote:

PvP damage needs to be reduced 75% not 25%. A PvP fight should last atleast 3 minutes in a 1 on 1 battle.

Thats my 2k credits.

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the current 5 seconds is obviously too short. i think 3 mintues might be a little too long for a space dogfight. IMO 30-90 seconds seems to be a good range.