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Thread: Whats the Star Wars Universe without big ugly bulk freighters?
Fernas
Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:44 pm
#118
don't know if this was mentioned already. i'm at work and didn't read the whole thread, but i've played a space based MMOG named JumpGate for a few years that did have huge freighters.
their was a need for them. space stations needed supplies in huge amounts and you just couldn't put units of steel in a backpack. they were big, bulky and slow, but they carried big guns and bigger shields.
they actually added a great dynamic to the game though, that of hiring other players to fly escort for you.
imagine your big bulky freighter nappy, with a squadron of X and Y wings or Tie fighters flying interference around you as you crawl through the space lanes. sure you have to pay them a nominal fee, but the odds of a slug like you not getting attacked are pretty slim, and it should be good times had by all. plus, you should make a profit for hauling the whatever.
its a great idea, but it all hinges on a need for the freighters, a need to have something that can haul bulk that can't be stored in a backpack. 
Fernas
Satek_Bane
Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:54 pm
#119
NattyDreadlock wrote:
lol, we will call you Snowman fromSmokey and the Bandit
sweet i never thought about that....thanks ill have to remember something that leans towards that when i get my ship and name it lol
Signed,
Sa'tek Bane
NattyDreadlock
Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:17 pm
#121
The Dev quote is just showing them passing the buck. who is going to make a living doing space tours or spaceliners when everyone will have a ship to go there themselves. The very people we would cater to(those withot ships) will be those without JTL and unable to fly on our ships in the first place.
We cant do transport missions for players because everyones pockets and backpacksare as deep as a light freighter's cargo holdalready.
I want to see faction based and generic terminal/NPC/themepark missions that are scaled to the players ship size. I'd like to see player made escort missions. Basically, freighter pilots are able to invite people to special "escort" group...just like normal groups. This grouping includes a windo similar to the trading window. The freighter types in the destination and escort fee. Both side agree and the other ship is grouped under the contract. As new fighters join under the contract, they just click agree with the freighter. If neccessary the freighter can re-negotiate the contract t increase or decrease teh contract amount(in case the amount isnt enough or is too muchto split amoung the additional escorts who may group up or leave). When both/all ships arrive at the destination and themissions completed(cargo delivered)the group dissolves and the payout is split amoung all those grouped and in the vicinity. Escorts who are killed in defense of the freighter are payed out half their amount after reaching the destination within a reasonable amount of time, like 10 mins after mission completion. This way there is incentive to survive, but also to participate ingetting the freighter to its destination. I hope to keep people from signing on to an escort mission, dying quickly, getting paid and then grabing another player mission...rinse and repeat. If you gonna committ to escorting...committ!
Fernas
Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:07 pm
#122
oooh, i like the smaller payout if you die. very cool. hadn't thought of that. really have them fighting, maybe not for the sake of your cargo, but i don't care as long as they're fighting!
Fernas
Draja
Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:54 pm
#123
NattyDreadlock wrote:
If everyone else has a Ferrari, this will be my 1979 Bluebird Schoool bus!! I wanna be the .50cal firing B24 to your 20mm carrying bf109.
Awesome! I would certainly have one of those too! Gotta love the old clunkers 
NattyDreadlock
Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:16 am
#124
Yes, another recruit!
I can see it now, groups of freighters doing missions together for mutual support. They all get their own missions and they all tag along together until they are all complete. I can see us in wedge or diamond formations, tightly packed with turrets bristling. Lone fighters swoop in thinking they have an easy kill as they waltz into our converging cone of death. Mutual support and overlapping arcs of fire deal another blow to would be pirates!
We could pay a few fighters to fly escort too...we got to give some of our lil buddies something to do!
I cant believe that teh Devs couldnt see the immediate benefit of adding freighters and transport missions in teh initial release of JTL. They say and expect us to be innovative and create new unexpected aspects to JTL, but surely they would have thought we would be better able to do this by adding more dynamics to the JTL model.
Message Edited by NattyDreadlock on 08-20-2004 03:22 AM
Flatfingers
Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:17 pm
#125
NattyDreadlock wrote:
I can see it now, groups of freighters doing missions together for mutual support. They all get their own missions and they all tag along together until they are all complete. I can see us in wedge or diamond formations, tightly packed with turrets bristling. Lone fighters swoop in thinking they have an easy kill as they waltz into our converging cone of death. Mutual support and overlapping arcs of fire deal another blow to would be pirates!
We could pay a few fighters to fly escort too...we got to give some of our lil buddies something to do!
There's a good reason why Arab traders traveled in caravans across the shiftingdesert sands, and whythey hired burly mercenaries to protect them on their journey....
The problem is thateven if we got new JtL features supportingfreighters as such, that's only half of what we need to spontaneously form caravans. The other necessary half is that merchants must have a reasonable expectation of making a profit to persuade them totravel for trade.
In JtL terms, that means we alsoneed some game function that enables us to find buyers on other planetsfor our goods. If it's just too hard to set up trading opportunities, then players simply won't trade -- period. They'll find something else to do with their gaming time... and that would be a waste of a great opportunity for interesting gameplay in JtL/SWG.
Players simply will not spontaneouslyform caravans in JtLwithouta reliablecargo trading system to make such trade reliably worthwhile.
--Flatfingers
NattyDreadlock
Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:32 pm
#126
I agree, but I think that can initially resolved with simple game generated missions. Scale the mission payouts to ship size. That way freighters will receive missions that allow significantly more credits for completion. With mission terminals, I can see 3 or more freighter captains grouping up and having access to large group payouts because we'd be hauling so much "mission cargo" as convoy.
Any concerns that these termial missions would be to easy ignore the possibilty for these high paying missions to possibly create TEFs for those doing highly visible faction transport missions, the fact that the area of space we must transverse may be very dangerousor that the mission itself can spawn enemy NPCs of a required difficulty to make these missions action packed and risky.
Azgaroth
Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:22 pm
#127
and now after ive read the WHOLE thread, i think i want one of thoose freighters... hearing nattydreaddy talking about convoys is making me wanna drop the ip banner and go neutral merchant, but thats jsut dreaming...
heard ALOT of nice ideas, and i really want it to happen, freighters is a must, the blood and bone in this body we call galaxy(or sumething)....
Freighters to the people!
Flatfingers
Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:55 pm
#128
Natty, I don't disagree with the value of having freight-hauling missions... but with respect,I think manywould-be Space Merchant types arelooking for something more.
Specifically, we want the opportunity to do cargo speculation, where we buy something cheap on one planet in the hopes of making a killing selling it on another planet. Hauling someone else's freight can be exciting if you run into danger, but itjust doesn't have that extra zing that comes from risking your life's savings on a "sure thing" that you can get from cargo speculation.
It's some feature to support cargo trading that I'm suggesting we need. An NPC freight hauling option would be nice, but I don't see it as being the #1 feature we need to make freighters really useful.
Just a personal view.
--Flatfingers
Fernas
Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:15 pm
#129
yeah, flatfingers, that's exactly how it worked in that other game. one space station had a surplus because the planet below it had a better supply and you'd buy there and sell at a station orbiting another planet that had worse supplies.
problem is, if people in this game want it, they just hop the transport and go to that planet. its not really that expensive to transport, so the price is regulated around the galaxy.
now if it was actually difficult to transport things, like all bulk commodities (steel, hide, plastics) had to be transported from planet to planet by these freighters. the price would be higher on some planets than others, and would create the speculation.
but i really don't see that happening. it'd be too big a change to the game. there would have to be another solution that i can't come up with.
NattyDreadlock
Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:13 pm
#130
Flat-Fingers:
I like your idea, but I dont see the Devs havng the time, and thus, the patience to build something that complex. It seems it would require eliminating other in game systems and then building new ones to freplace them and then adding your commerce dynamics into the game...I dont have the confidence in the Devs to embark on such a project.
Your idea would seem to naturally include my NPC based transport missions as a supplement to better round out the freighter commerce experience and so I support it...its just seems unlikly. Instead I choose to promote a system more easily, and thus, more likly to be done by the devs.
My idea basically applies what as already been done on the ground with terminal missions and adds to JTL. The grouping idea for freighters is the same as SWG and only the escort groupings is a modified version of the already present group system. I like the escort grouped differnetly because I personally dont believe they should receive equal payouts as the freighter(s) itself/themselves, in theory our operating cost and overhead is much higher.
One aspect of your idea that my do-able rather easily would be to allow us to shuttle items for players without JTL who would like to have their items placed on vendors on other planets. Basically for a fee less than the round trip by in-game shuttle, we would pick up "player missions" from Outbound Vendor Terminals. Players place items on these vendors like any other, but they also choose what planet and city they want to sell it on. The game could calculate a shipping fee that is less thanthe shuttle trip(which the seller pays when placing the items on the vendor, plus the standard 20 credits). Freighter pilots pick the "mission" and carry a ghost item representing the items intheir datapad for each destination. We fly to the destination(s) chosen and make our way to a receiving vendor at the starport. The items are then transfered to the proper planet and city bazaar. Now for game programming the items can actually be placed in the proper bazaar all the long, its just not seen or buyable unitl the mission is completed by one of us. Just remeber this economy will be supported by those merchants without JTL. This economy could also be done without terminals. Nothing prevents you from hunting down merchants without JTL and providing this service to them(buying items at reduced cost and then placing them yourself on other planets for a profit), but atleast the terminals provide a centralized meeting place for freighter captains and merchants without JTL...and it doenst require you meeting face-to-face, meaning missions may be available during non-peak playing hours.