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Thread: We can work this out SOE, really.

LeeRydersRevenge
Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:18 pm
#1
Sometimes I sit back at this game and marvel.

Sometimes I wonder why I allow this one sided relationship to go on.

So, SOE.. I hope you pay attention this time. We (the SWG Community) have posted literally thousands of times what we want... and you have failed to deliver.

It cost you dearly when WoW came out and it will cost you even more so with each succeeding roll out of a competetive game.

We're not joking, I know you dont believe us when we ask for stuff like...say... CUSTOMER SERVICE, but I promise you, we really.. truly mean it.


However, we understand you have needs too.. so this is based around:

1)what we know will work

2)what we know your capable of

3)cost efficiency



So lets begin then...


First, in order to keep people happy.. this game must have a focus. Right now, there is no goal... no objective and no point.


Being a pilot is fun; But only to a very slight degree. Once you master pilot and we ask "What is there to do", your reply is "Master it again!". Sorry, but that is unacceptable.

Master Pilots need a mission in life. a "reason" not only to master, but to continue to fly while adding to the overall content, storyline and quality of the game itself. (note: not one of these 3 things have you accomplished or seemingly even attempted to fulfill)


So the hard parts:

To give pilots a reason to continue to fly and "take part" in swg as such, you need to face reality. I ask, how often do you see an F14 Tomcat with..say... engines from a MiG? In the same manner, Imperial (and to a large degree rebel) ships should all be in lock step. There is no way in which a true navy would allow the customization of it's fleet in such a drastic way.

True, there are thins like shipwrights you need to keep in mind, but we will get to that soon.


If you watch the movie, you will see that the imperial pilots fly in the same tactical ways as American Fighter Pilots do: Always cover your wingman.

Rebel Pilots in the films fly much like the now defunct Soviets of the 60's-80's.

This is crucial in that if you incorporate this by physically ASSIGNING pilots to wings (by first giving them choices as to WHAT they want to do in their respective Navy such as combat, command fleet, Mining(to come), etc) you can then obligate faction points to it.

So, if a rebel pilot misses a patrol with his squadron, he either wont get his faction points for that day -or- he actually loses points and is assessed a penatly for bein awol (financial). not only will this help in immersion, but it will help a bit with the economy.


No, to quickly get back to our shipwrights. In order to subsidize their income.. allow them to build ships for the empire. If ship repairs, ships themselves, training etc all cost faction points and can only be bought from your specifc recruiter or space station, this will eliminate the VAST diversity of both Navy's that truthfully shouldnt exist in the first place.

However, as noted, shipwrights can build these ships for the various fleets and be paid as such in both monetary and faction ways for their troubles.

In order to encourage more shipwrights to do this, availability of components -and- ships themselves will be directly tied to the quantity of ships being produced. (perhaps not 1:1, but some ratio can be figured out)


Now, why would factions want to patrol?


MONEY- Is that not the cause of all conflicts?


If a said faction controls a certain area of space, the opposing side -should- have supply issues, unavailability of materials only available there, lower quality available of materials mined..etc. This is important because without these areas factions will not get what they need and their supplies will diminish to a point where faction standard (read: lower quality or base components) will be all that is left eventually.

to help balance each servers own faction population, perhaps you should try importing a set amount of the kessel craft to help fill out squadrons.

Shipwrights will also have a more important role in this as they can help influence in which direction their respective faction heads


Now, since your actually giving pilots a reason to fly other then cheap missions from space stations or killing NPC's in deepspace and kessel, you can actually -use- those people who are writting that lame content and make them a type of squadron leader for various important battles.

Give them a command type ship for factions to follow orders from where these SL's can say..much like in the movies "focus all fire power on this target!".

Do you have any idea as to how MUCH these cost free implementations will aid in the direction and satisfaction of this game?


Smugglers-

OK, I've personally never been a smuggler. Mostly because lack of a reason to be one. What do smugglers do? right now, and since release..nothing. it is absolutely pointless to be one.

Who needs a smuggler when you can carry physically 30 tons of metals on your hip belt?


end that.


Players need a realistic CAP on what they can carry. Give smugglers, as a reward for becoming ..say level 3.... a land based vehicle that can carry vast amount of weight. (think semi truck). this will enable them to be NEEDED and USED by players in this game.

Once at a star port, they can launch in their ship and do their little smuggling thing.


Again, a money sink, distribution of wealth..etc.


Since we cant go to jail or die in this game, make the penalty of being a smuggler thats caught very high. Impound their ship. confiscate it and do NOT return it. Same with the cargo.


Harsh, sure. effective in giving smuggling meaning? you bet.

This will also give more purpouse to shipwrights (which I am not).


This will not only have vast implications on JTL playability, but now that players can no longer carry stuff themselves, it will give more economy to the entire system (or galaxy if you will) since everyone will need and want them.


For the reason people will play.. by the hundreds of thousands... Battlefield 1942 over and over again, despite lack of new maps, content..etc.. is because their is a goal.


Give people a goal, and they WILL strive to achieve it.


Since we have space worked out, shipwrighting working, smugglers working, what about ground forces?


OK, again.keep in mind this has to go with bein implmented withOUT changing the basic structure of the game.


I propose a new profession.

Sabatage


If faction mining happens, I can see very clearly the mining operations faction... but cant do anything to keep the imperials or rebels from gaining resources? That makes no sense.


Allow mining operations to be CRITICAL to be defended. Minors MUST hire people in this way..and as such, it will give not only a reason to defend a region to PVP and PVE players, but a monetary incentive since the mining community must employ them to protect their operations. Again, it must be balanced, but balance is the easy part of this to fix by clever usage of NPC's, email alerts..etc.)


You fchange this simple issues and you have now completely changed the face and economy of SWG and made it into a viable, playable and most importantly fun game with goals, challenges and purpouse.



2,000 years ago, when God made an ass speak it was a miracle.
Today, it would be a miracle if you could get one to shut up.
~Pastor James Vernon McGee
booger1980
Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:44 pm
#2
ok let me try to get this straight.....


no more costomization for ships?


forced faction patrols and forced tactics?


strength of faction in one system influences the strength of components for opposite factions ships?


introducing a cap in how much a person can carry? in fact forcing people to have others carry their stuff?


impounded smuggler ships without them being returned? including YT1300's that cost more than half a million credits?




what are you a Nazi? you get one star man, sorry
nawchir
Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:47 am
#3
Dude thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life. So what your saying is dont let me have any freedom, I have to let whos in control dictate what i do when I log on? You need to quit your account and go hide under a rock.


When you pay for everyones account on all the servers then you can have your Rules you have listed implimented onto the game. Until then you need to keep those to yourself.

Message Edited by nawchir on 03-15-2005 11:49 PM



(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)


Good? Bad? Im the one with the Lightsaber
foxtahiro
Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:24 am
#4
It costs every MMORPG dearly when a new one arise but who lasts in the end is the big question . This is STAR WARS not Warcraft and that`s why so many are playing it.

I came back from City of Heroes, Matrix Online (Beta), World of Warcraft most due to SWG is still the most advanced MMORPG of them all. It has features most developers fears to do since it is a major undertaking in development.


WoW is a very very easy game with an extreme lineary storyline to follow. Good for young kids perhaps but still after playing from launch date SWG still is a challenge.

And the world is still an interresting place, and that`s what counts
Skuzz
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:41 am
#5




foxtahiro wrote:

It costs every MMORPG dearly when a new one arise but who lasts in the end is the big question . This is STAR WARS not Warcraft and that`s why so many are playing it.

I came back from City of Heroes, Matrix Online (Beta), World of Warcraft most due to SWG is still the most advanced MMORPG of them all. It has features most developers fears to do since it is a major undertaking in development.


WoW is a very very easy game with an extreme lineary storyline to follow. Good for young kids perhaps but still after playing from launch date SWG still is a challenge.

And the world is still an interresting place, and that`s what counts





Well said. /Deepbow


5 for you my friend 





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WOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWOKWO
ArcadyHerigorn
Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:38 am
#6


I am so sick of hearing how there is no content after you master ACE. Stop complaining and go help others complete thier missions. Everytime I came in the forums to complain about how hard the missions were and the stupid mass limitations on Imp ships etc. etc. all I hear is group. But then it is rare and hard to find people to group with. Ace pilots stand in the starports proudly displaying thier tags but will not respond to plea's for help to complete a mission. As a privateer you can help with Imp or Rebel missions. As an Imp or reb you can help with privateer missions. When mining goes live the miners will need protection while mining, probably not the content your looking for but the point is, there is content if you want it.


Oops, sorry I just read the last part of you post and you seem to realize that they are putting the resource spawns in highly competative area's, at least that is what i understand from what i read. It will be pve but heh, no everyone wants pvp.

Message Edited by ArcadyHerigorn on 03-16-2005 09:39 AM

Message Edited by ArcadyHerigorn on 03-16-2005 09:43 AM

LeeRydersRevenge
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:26 am
#7




ok let me try to get this straight.....

no more costomization for ships?

forced faction patrols and forced tactics?

strength of faction in one system influences the strength of components for opposite factions ships?

introducing a cap in how much a person can carry? in fact forcing people to have others carry their stuff?

impounded smuggler ships without them being returned? including YT1300's that cost more than half a million credits?



what are you a Nazi? you get one star man, sorry





OK, lets "Get it straight" then shall we?


Rebel ships can be slightly modified, nuetral ships modified to a large extent.. but nothing should be stronger than the imperial fleet (I personally am a Rebel). If you think about it, who has a stronger Helicopter than the apache? No one at your local airport i ensure you.


Yes, if your an overt member of your faction you should have some responsibility


Yes, if your country is denied access to the best alloys, how then can they produce top of the line machines?


Yes, a cap is a very needed thing in this game in order to give smugglers a true role in this game.


Yes, impound ships. Dont want to lose that half mill YT? I sure hope you would hire some good neutral pilots and gunners to get you through those tough area's.


No, I am not a Nazi. Ad hominem. Grow up son.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dude thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life. So what your saying is dont let me have any freedom, I have to let whos in control dictate what i do when I log on? You need to quit your account and go hide under a rock.



When you pay for everyones account on all the servers then you can have your Rules you have listed implimented onto the game. Until then you need to keep those to yourself.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


No you can have freedom. Dont be overt. Dont take part in the GCW if you dont want to. This is entirely voluntary.


When I joined my faction, I joined the GCW, NOT the Salvation Army. I came to take part in the GCW


Quit my account? Are you 12 to suggest such a thing?


I've seen several others offer their suggestions here, as such.. I felt I would offer mine. I believe moreso that ideas of censorship like your be kept to yourself my little friend.



------------------------------------------------------------------------


first of all - when you have read the stuff your pilot recruiter and your first trainer tell you - you would know that all pilots (yes rebel and imp ones as well) are NOT part of the corresponding navy. they are freelancers that are hired by the rebels or imps, corsec or RSF.
the point why you dont see customized jets is the fact that ppl dont own these jets. they use em but they are property of the US. look how many private cars, boats and planes are customized.

second - master content.
wearing a master tag means NOTHING.
it just allows you to use all skills and every piece of equipment.
when you look for content - have you done all the station missions?
do you know every single ships strenghts and weaknesses by heard?
have you mastered every ship?
can you handle multiple agressors in a nova or in a b-wing?
can you kill the ISD without using blind spots in an A-Wing?

you havent even scratched the surface of the game.

and when you write something about the community needs.
find out what WE need.
cause you need training.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I recall breifly what the faction recruiters said. And true, I didnt write it down as you have.. but I know this. I joined a faction and play "overt" in order to take part in the GCW. Again, I joined a faction not the Salvation Army.


As per the "owned by the..." yes, that is what I am saying. Imperial ships, Rebel Fighters should both be faction controlled standards of measure.


"wearin a master tag means nothing" is a HUGE problem in this game. it SHOULD mean something.. something this post is attempting to address.


As per suggesting we master every version of pilot.. again it is ridiculous as stated in the original post. I didnt master Pilot in order to master it again....and again...and again.. simply for lack of content.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am so sick of hearing how there is no content after you master ACE. Stop complaining and go help others complete thier missions. Everytime I came in the forums to complain about how hard the missions were and the stupid mass limitations on Imp ships etc. etc. all I hear is group. But then it is rare and hard to find people to group with. Ace pilots stand in the starports proudly displaying thier tags but will not respond to plea's for help to complete a mission. As a privateer you can help with Imp or Rebel missions. As an Imp or reb you can help with privateer missions. When mining goes live the miners will need protection while mining, probably not the content your looking for but the point is, there is content if you want it.

Oops, sorry I just read the last part of you post and you seem to realize that they are putting the resource spawns in highly competative area's, at least that is what i understand from what i read. It will be pve but heh, no everyone wants pvp.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I do help others complete their missions (at least try too-hard when the system default is to not let you help unless your grouping with them) Sadly though, go into space on SunRunner and it is rare to see another pilot.


Ive tried alot of things on the side to get this game to have a bit more and to employ a bit more quality content. But people began "solo-grouping".


without enforcing some type of community as they used to do, the game gets emptier and quieter and shallower. It's almost like playing chess alone. and many of the people here are the ones causing it to be that way by, as you said... not helping others or solo grouping (ok, well thats fixed but still)..etc.


What is the point of givin rank if it isnt used? Tell me, which faction did you sign up with:


1)Boyscouts


2)Girlscouts


3)Salvation Army


4) Imperial


5)Rebel


The way the game works right now, their all the same, except at least with the girlscouts you get good cookies




2,000 years ago, when God made an ass speak it was a miracle.
Today, it would be a miracle if you could get one to shut up.
~Pastor James Vernon McGee
hase2
Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:19 pm
#8
first of all - when you have read the stuff your pilot recruiter and your first trainer tell you - you would know that all pilots (yes rebel and imp ones as well) are NOT part of the corresponding navy. they are freelancers that are hired by the rebels or imps, corsec or RSF.

the point why you dont see customized jets is the fact that ppl dont own these jets. they use em but they are property of the US. look how many private cars, boats and planes are customized.


second - master content.

wearing a master tag means NOTHING.

it just allows you to use all skills and every piece of equipment.

when you look for content - have you done all the station missions?

do you know every single ships strenghts and weaknesses by heard?

have you mastered every ship?

can you handle multiple agressors in a nova or in a b-wing?

can you kill the ISD without using blind spots in an A-Wing?


you havent even scratched the surface of the game.


and when you write something about the community needs.

find out what WE need.

cause you need training.

Vegitaa
Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:38 pm
#9

You presume too much when you speak for the whole community, not a flame just an observation.


We are given the ability to customize our ships to enhance the fun factor. There is no valid reason to remove this. Sure, your opinion is your opinion and I will not flame or fault you for it. But understand that if I did not have the freedom to improve my ship on a regular basis it would greatly reduce my enjoyment immediately. In any Space Based MMO this has always been a neccesary addition.


In terms of Master content, yes there's the spacestation missions, remastering additional squadrons, helping others with their missions, as well as getting involved in space based PvP. It's not the developers fault that on my sevrer (Ahazi) only Imperials go overt and hit DS. I personally go overt and patrol all systems looking for PvP opertunities. I agree we need something more but I already posted my suggestion in the pilot forums. I think we need capturable space stations that affect the GCW standing of the space zones independant of ground-control.. but you can look my post up on that.


Comparing our ships to F-14's and such things in the real world is a moot point, this is a game and to remain competitive they must balance fun. playability, and player input. With over 200,000 players not all ideas are implementable, possible, or viable. Many are many are not. I don't know how long you've been playing SWG but having been in since launch I can give many examples where the community has been heard as well as many where we have not. You do what you can and honestly in recent months the Dev's have done a lot. No development time is "cost free" btw, trust me, as someone who deals with database contractors on a daily basis, there is no such thing as free development.


There are ways of working GCW bonuses into JTL but I personally think yours go too far into the realm of "no fun". Changing the way we carry and move our inventory around is not going to add to our enjoyment either. You're talking about changing one of the most fundamental ways we play for no good reason besides you think it's wrong. Games like Neocron and Anarchy online have mass based Inventories and I can atest to their lack of fun in those regards. Smugglers want to smuggle, we want them to smuggle as well. But forcing the average player to hunt for a smuggler to help them get around is just not going to sit well with anyone. You may find smugglers currently "needless" and "pointless" but I believe the entire smuggler community would disagree, they need some changes (on the way if you've read any of the recent news for them) but this is not a reasonable solution.


Impounding million dollar ships is going to do nothing for the game except piss people off, hands down the lamest idea I've heard in a longtime. Again, I'm not trying to flame you (notice the green text....) but in my opinion as a longtime player it's just not gonna happen and shouldn't either.


Comparing SWG (an MMORPG) to BattleField 1942 is not valid either for obvios reasons. In BF1942 you don't grind for months and months to be able to heal someone or carry that nifty sniper rifle. Also, you can't say those games have long lifespans either. They are constantly releasing patches, new expansions, new versions (BF Vietnam, now the upcoming BF2... Mod's all over the internet.. etc...) The only goal there is to get the base/flag/whatever and then logout when someone shows up with a headshot macro.


I agree SWG could use more goals, but thats what the GCW revamp is all about. Jedi is one goal, mastering your profession another, buying and decorating a home/POB ship, mastering pilot professions, visiting POI's, collecting badges, Bounty Hunter Armour, RIS armour, Mandalorian Armour, Legendary items, loot kits.. etc.. plenty of goals in SWG if you are willing to look.


The changes you propose, in my opinion, are damaging and would destroy what is left of this game. I see many things the Dev's are doing both on the ground and with the new expansion. Sure, I don't agree with everything but who does? You can't please all the people all the time. If you don't want to have the patience to wait for good changes.. well.. have fun on BattleField, personally having been in since launch I can testify that this game has gotten much better and with the CU even more good changes are on the way.


Believe me or not, thats up to you. You are more than welcome to your opinions and ideas but realize they may not be popular. Sure, if you ran this game you could have things your way, but realize this is not Burger King. The community is huge, there are plenty of players that have been here since Beta and many of us aren't going to leave for some Magic and Fairies type game, nor are we going to trade in our TIE Fighters for Sherman tanks. Balance is a moving target and with the communities help we're going to get there. I rather be an optimist than a pecimist anyday.


There's many things I would love to see implemented, there's lots of things I'd like to see change. None of which you even came close to touching in your post. But thats ok, I'm not here to say you're wrong or I'm right, I'm here to say in my opinion the ideas you posted are horrible and extremely unwelcomed.


/bowrespectfully





There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.


booger1980
Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:58 pm
#10
still some of the worst ideas ive ever heard.
nawchir
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:20 pm
#11
"are you 12 to suggest such a thing?" Before you post anything on forums you always needs to reflect on your ideas. Rememeber if you were a DEV its not what you like its the Consumer.

If this game disgusts you so much just leave. There are worse problems in this game than you not having any fun cause you can get creative and find your own fun.



(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)


Good? Bad? Im the one with the Lightsaber
Gom_Kuub
Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:37 am
#12
let's face it, we are all made miserable in some-way/shape/form because of SWG & JTL

for me, SWG makes me miserable because grinding takes forever, Anchorhead is deserted on my galaxy, and there is a sense of none-purpose in my grinding


devs don't reply or meet our demands pretty much most of the time

but what can we do? post some more? well if it hasen't worked thousands of times b4 like the thread creator said, then it won't work athousand times again

but because we have nothing else, it's all we can do

but what you all have to understand is programminga complex game such as SWG & JTL is hard, tedious and long work

heck, it takes me days to create a simple Starcraft map with triggers and unit specs

and that's just 1 simple Starcraft map, think about an entire MMORPG

devs must make sure to complete and clean the essential asspects first, then we can get the add-ons and special side dishes

let's be patient, and let's let the devs know they must do everything good and not fast



-Gom




-Gom



"For over 2 years, the Veteran Community were the guardians of peace and justice in the Pre-CU. Before the dark times, before the NGE."


BelarrnSorak
Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:48 am
#13
sounds like you have some good ideas. i'd love to see them nerf insta travle with ships, and it would be cool if we could bring anyone up in a POB but if they don't have JTL then they can't be a gunner or co-pilot. this would create a new industrey and put more ships into space. the GCW side, while haveing standardized ships would add realisem, i think most people would prefer it if they could "Pimp" there ride. and remember imp's cant paint there ships so that is kinda holding with the whole imperial navy thing.

i think they shouls also re think the devide between space and ground, it would feel more imersive if you could be declaired on the ground and that be carried into space, as well as haveing JTL missions that include both space and ground parts.

Jedi and BH should also be affected by this, if you are a jedi then you should be able to be hunted in space, to make thinsg fair, you should have some kind of alarm that indocates a BH is close by. this could be computer or force, ether way something to tip the Jedi off so he has the chance to fight or run.

Sumggler's will have there day. the new update loooks good, and once we see what makes the cut more can be said on what there role should be. for now i'd like to see smugglers of any faction be able to pilot any of the POB's, this skill would come with mastering smuggler ( prevent dabblers from gettin the goods ) and holding 3 Ace's. i would only suggest this because a smugglers faction is what ever side he is working for that day.

and last of all a little cut sceen when you land and take off, jsut a little something so we can see our ship landing and blasting off, nothing to crazy. better would be to actuley have to land the ship at a docking bay and take off, like in a flight sim, but thats outa scope i think.




Name: Drawde
Profession: Bounty Hunter
Faction: Imperial


Name: Ageo
Profession: Medic
Faction: Imperial

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