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Thread: Fighters vs Multi passenger ships

SanityWelcome
Mon May 23, 2005 3:47 pm
#1
I have noticed that even with elite shields and elite guns a single fighter with a 90k mass and weapon overload 4 can cripple and destroy a multi passenger ship. Example, today I dueled someone in a jedi fighter that has a 90k mass. His guns did from 1-2.5k dmg. I have elite shields which are 3.1k in shields. I have elite cannons which do over 4k dmg each. Yet in one hit with overloaded weapons he took my shields out and armor and disabled my ship. Oh and I have over 2k front and back armor. I find this to be disturbing for when I made ace and bought the decimater I was getting it for the sole purpose that in a battle situation I would be able to take on multiple fighters at once. In the pics when they first released the ships they stated the VT-49 was a patrol ship of the empire/prison style ship and could easily handle its own in battle. First thing to popped into my head was a ship lighter then a corvete but still able to withstand a fight against a few fighters. What I want to know is how a 90k mass can criple a 5mil mass ship in 1 hit only? Does this seem out of wack a bit to anyone else. Ships like the deci and the rebel counterpart and the YT-1300 should be a heavy class of ship. If they are gonna make fighters have over 2k in dmg weapons should not larger ships have shields that are more like 8-10k and armor 8-10k armor? I mean really I pack a power core that produces 19k in energy. Please tell me what you think, it's got me kinda ticked off right now. I am just thinking their is no point of me spending the millions that i did for the ship and its gear if a singe fighter can wipe me. Any input as to why this is feel free to let me know, not trying to complain to much about this, but I do feel that as far as larger ships are concerned that we are being deprived of what a larger ship should have.

Tassik
Kebb
Mon May 23, 2005 5:46 pm
#2

The difference between PVP and PVE damageis something that has bothered me since JTL came out. I know that hittinga good player in ana-wing is harder than hitting a tier 5 a-wing, but one-shot kills are just no fun for me. Battles with several players on each side can be over in a few seconds. With the same damage being applied to the barn-sized POB ships, they have an even shorter lifespan.

Kalais
Mon May 23, 2005 6:20 pm
#3

I have often wondered the same thing. I wish they would lower damage in PVP in space like they do on the ground.


Makes it kinda hard to have a big starwars type battle...this is starwars right?







"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
CommTampers
Mon May 23, 2005 6:58 pm
#4
.....Or improve the crafted shields, especially the POB shields.



Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue~ Field Doctor
Amuro0079
Mon May 23, 2005 7:03 pm
#5




Kalais wrote:


I have often wondered the same thing. I wish they would lower damage in PVP in space like they do on the ground.


Makes it kinda hard to have a big starwars type battle...this is starwars right?








Further lowering damage in PVPisn't gonna help. We'll end up with endless duels since people can just hit cap shield shunt whenever they feel like to replenish their shields.



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shfire
Mon May 23, 2005 7:33 pm
#6
Well unless they have changed it PvP has always been fighters 1 shot 1 kill, POB ships 3 Shots 1 kill. From what you have said it looks as if they haven't changed it. Space PvP has never been worthwile or fair in this game.



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Kebb
Mon May 23, 2005 8:10 pm
#7





Amuro0079 wrote:

Further lowering damage in PVPisn't gonna help. We'll end up with endless duels since people can just hit cap shield shunt whenever they feel like to replenish their shields.






Even with a 50% reduction in PVP damage dealt, cap-to-shield 4 would have a hard time keeping up. If a POB running elite shields cancurrently be disabled in one shot, cutting the damage in half would still be ahuge hit.


Amuro0079
Mon May 23, 2005 9:51 pm
#8




Kebb wrote:






Amuro0079 wrote:

Further lowering damage in PVPisn't gonna help. We'll end up with endless duels since people can just hit cap shield shunt whenever they feel like to replenish their shields.






Even with a 50% reduction in PVP damage dealt, cap-to-shield 4 would have a hard time keeping up. If a POB running elite shields cancurrently be disabled in one shot, cutting the damage in half would still be ahuge hit.







And your point is?


BTW, elite shields should have had like 30,000/30,000 instead of 3.1K. My regular fighter shiled is 3.3k back and front.

Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 05-24-2005 01:57 PM



Giovane - Imperial Pilot Ace | Jedi Master
Guo - Freelance Master Pilot | Master Medic
Rong - Alliance Ace Pilot | Master Trader (Shipwright/Architect)

Drop-off vendors: 3895 -6157, roughly 1250m from Mos Eisley starport


((((Official Thread about Jedi Innate Armor))))
Dagrin
Tue May 24, 2005 1:02 am
#9
Torun a POB ship, you need 3 players minimum, 4 if you're smart and 5 if you just know people that are bored alot.In a situation of 3 to 1, the 3 should have the advantage, should they not? Sadly, the 3 will have theirbuttshanded to them time and time again if they are in a POB ship.


Fixing this is simple. All you need to do is think about the advantages a POB ship should have. To make up for it's large size and relatively poor manuverablity, it should have much stronger armor and shields, making a few stray shots nothing to worry about. It also should have frieghteningly powerful artilery. In addition, we need to deal with the handy cap of turrnet gunning being twice as hard as having the pilot shoot, the advantage of flying one direction while firing in another is minimal to a point of being useless.


step 1. An additonal across the bored damage reduction, 1/4 from where it is now seems about right. Space PvP is pretty much a joke right now anyway, it's more about being the first to get of a few lucky shots than a real dogfight.


step 2. POB defence. The elite components are POB only anyway, so unlike other stuff it does not need to be balanced across the bored for all ships. Elite shields should be in about the 5000 ranage and armor at close to 10000. Also, POB should get a regenaration bonus, taking down a a POB should require a constant pounding, if you can't keep the heat on the POB should be back to full strength in a few moments. I'd say add a 4x shieldregen bonus to all POB ships (don't just up the regen of elite shields, though you can do that too).


step 3. Weapons. AsI said before, turrent gunning is a huge pain. So much so I'd almost want to give a "close enough" hitable zone around the selected target. But, since we can't have everything, give POB turrents (heck ALL turrents) a damage multiplier. 4x damage for a POB seems fair to me (the turrent shows 4 barrels anyway). Other turrents might only get a 2x bonus.


The weapon damage multiplier for turrents would offset the damage reduction. I few good hits from a turrent SHOULD kill a fighter, where as a few shots back to the POB should barely scratch the surface. Devs, Please try this stuff out some. Match up 3 players in a POB against 2 well armed master pilots, where right now its a slaughter, if things were balanced the POB should be winning say 2 out of 3. Send 3 against the same POB it should loose 2 out of 3, but still have a good chance.
Washell
Tue May 24, 2005 3:15 am
#10

Level 10 guns do 4 to 5k dmg, after various reductions they still pack enough punch to destroymost other ships in 1hit. So I don't see the point in even higher dmg guns, dead is dead.


We need gunning made a bit easier.Best way to do that is to have the turrets compensate for motion the ship makes. If turret points at point x, the gun should stay pointed at x even when the pilot is barrel rolling. Even with this system it'll be pretty tough to take out an opponent corkscrewing or jinking towards you at full speed.



sumner
Tue May 24, 2005 4:03 am
#11
I agree that POB ships should have crazy armor and shields, but not a weapons multiplier. They should be tanks, hanging out harrasing the fighters in the area, not destroying them instantly. I really like the idea of super bosted regen for the shields. A few fighters could take them out pretty easily then, but a lone fighter is not going to be able to do it. I can park my Deci in the middle of a tier 3 spawn, and jump in one of the turrets and be fine as long as I don't get too many on me, this is how I'd like to see them against PC fighters. A lone PC fighter is little to no threat, 3 to 4 fighters and you better have good gunners.




o._.._[ggg]:...__________,_
[]ggg[c]gg[g][ggggggg]:(ggggggg) Otto Yardhand (ggggggg)
''.''''''''''''///_/''^=====///
_._,....///
Imperial Scout Trooper Officer, Captain of the VT-49 Decimator "Obliterator"


TomoRainer
Tue May 24, 2005 4:08 am
#12
Me, Monsofo, and a couple other people argued strongly for better POB components in beta to help address some of this stuff. While the shields and guns were improved somewhat (which was much appreciated), the difference between what's useful for POBs in PVE and what's useful for them in PVP is so huge it isn't really possible to use the same system on them both.

Given that, we'd have to see if we could come up with a system where POBs have a big damage reduction against them in PVP. I'm not certain whether that's possible, and even if it is, we'd have to worry about making sure the damage reduction is balanced with the ability to shunt shields and such, or it could result in a Bizarro World where POBs are nearly invincible rather than coffins with big engines.

It might be possible to come up with other solutions, too, like giving them targetable components similar to Vettes which you must destroy before you can take them out. Dunno how feasible that is, either, but making POBs useful continues to be one of our top issues.






Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

Loki_Ashaman
Tue May 24, 2005 4:17 pm
#13




Amuro0079 wrote:





Kebb wrote:






Amuro0079 wrote:

Further lowering damage in PVPisn't gonna help. We'll end up with endless duels since people can just hit cap shield shunt whenever they feel like to replenish their shields.






Even with a 50% reduction in PVP damage dealt, cap-to-shield 4 would have a hard time keeping up. If a POB running elite shields cancurrently be disabled in one shot, cutting the damage in half would still be ahuge hit.







And your point is?


BTW, elite shields should have had like 30,000/30,000 instead of 3.1K. My regular fighter shiled is 3.3k back and front.


Message Edited by Amuro0079 on 05-24-2005 01:57 PM



Um, no, the Elite POB shields get up to around 3400 / 3400 or so is all... If you have 3300 / 3300 in your fighter, you either have amazingly rare loot or an old exploited shield.




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