Jedi Archive
Thread: Combat in the NGE: Point & Click DOES NOT WORK in SWG, and here's why...
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MX13
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:27 am
#1
Hello Fellow Jedi, this a post I made inthe "NGE - Combat" forum. I've gotten a lot of good feedback from other Testers, andalmost all of them share these concerns.If you want read the responses from other players, here's link:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=npe_combat&message.id=723&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
Now, here's a bit of info on me: I play a ton of FPS's , and I'm quit good 
I was hoping the play would be like Jedi Outcast: Jedi Acadamey, it's not 
I would be THRILLED if they turned the combat into that system! Ok, here's the post:
I was hoping the play would be like Jedi Outcast: Jedi Acadamey, it's not I would be THRILLED if they turned the combat into that system! Ok, here's the post:
First off, I'm becoming a big fan of the "Iconic Profession" concept, especially if they make Politician, Entertainer & Trader Secondary Professions, and add Ranger = Chewbacca (Rifles, Pikes, Scout & CH, with Tracking & Camo)and a few more. I would fall in love with this system if they changed it to weapon specialties at higher levels & remove the pic's from the Prof windows!
Well, I logged back in and after leveling a bit more, I can say for certain now that:
Point and Click Combat will not work for SWG
The issues:
- Even when holding down the Mouse Button, if a target moves out of the crosshairs you will shoot or strike what is behind it.
- The speed does not work with the lag and clicking.
- This is especially bad with Melee weapons. Melee at higher levels will be more than horrible.
- Occasionaly, when attacking, you can click and hold the mouse and you will not attack.
- You CAN NOT move during combat or you will miss your target, and they will NOT miss you. This makes all combat STAND AND FIGHT, and that's the OPPOSITE of what the stated goals of this system.
- Added by fellow Testers:
- Creature Movements, such as jumping, make it impossible to continue attacking using the "Button Hold" system. It also takes to long to "re-aquire" the outline box. -SilentSoul201 / ParnellOfBria
- Clicking Until it Hurts!!! OW!!!!! This is a huge problem. I've played for about 2 hours at a stretch and had to stop because of this. I usually can sit up to 5 hours playing SWG with no pain. This is a pretty serious issue. - Cloake
- Serious Lag Issues Continues: Specials delay is ridiculous. - ParnellOfBria
- LOS Issues: MOB's can shoot you from inside the environment, but you "Can not see your target"?
That said, I strongly urge SOE consider the KOTOR / SWG toggle / tab / "lock on" systemagain, otherwise game play is dead. Or figure out how to make the play like JO:JA....
Message Edited by MX13 on 11-07-2005 06:29 AM
MsNiL
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:36 am
#3
I do not have any problems with this myself, but if you want any form of response you should probably post it in the generic NGE testing forum.
Not the old Jedi forum (which will probably be deleted the 15th anyway).
Not the old Jedi forum (which will probably be deleted the 15th anyway).
MX13
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:38 am
#4
Kosi wrote:
learn how toaim?
Guess you haven't played it, and you obviously can't read since most of the aiming issues I described are game play issues, not aiming.
oWsCloned
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:38 am
#5
I know the pauses in shooting- not attacking when you click to attack- is supposedly due to the reloading animations not in the code yet.? I could be way off but I am pretty sure it was in a bug thread that Tiggs had commented on. But! If we are going to have to reload (jedi shouldn't have to reload anyway) we should at least have a counter that tells ammo status. But yeah, targeting needs fixing. There were several times I had one npc targeted and they moved and I started hitting the person behind them. I can see it now- a group of 8 out hunting krayts and the leader says lets hit the nearest krayt, and the krayt warps and everyone hits the ancient behind it. But as it stands I don't see how melee will be viable in the new combat/ targeting system.
MX13
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:40 am
#6
MsNiL wrote:
I do not have any problems with this myself, but if you want any form of response you should probably post it in the generic NGE testing forum.
Not the old Jedi forum (which will probably be deleted the 15th anyway).
Like I said in the post, it's been posted in the NGE - Combat section. I posted it here so the community could know what some of the Testers are thinking about the NGE play, kind of like you've been doing but with play detail.
MX13
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:42 am
#7
oWsCloned wrote:
I know the pauses in shooting- not attacking when you click to attack- is supposedly due to the reloading animations not in the code yet.? I could be way off but I am pretty sure it was in a bug thread that Tiggs had commented on. But! If we are going to have to reload (jedi shouldn't have to reload anyway) we should at least have a counter that tells ammo status. But yeah, targeting needs fixing. There were several times I had one npc targeted and they moved and I started hitting the person behind them. I can see it now- a group of 8 out hunting krayts and the leader says lets hit the nearest krayt, and the krayt warps and everyone hits the ancient behind it. But as it stands I don't see how melee will be viable in the new combat/ targeting system.
LMAO... that happened to us hunting... it was hilarious, and since comunication bites now we were all running around in circles, LMAO!!!!
SoloBacca1
Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:04 am
#8
Hmm, I really dont know... I heard that the system will make it less lagging but after what I see its not true... Will see! MsNil you tryed it? How'd you mean about that you dont find any problems with it and this dude finds LOTS!? Thank you...
Luxora
Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:16 am
#9
My responses = in teal.
MX13 wrote:
The issues:
- Even when holding down the Mouse Button, if a target moves out of the crosshairs you will shoot or strike what is behind it. (Well, if you're firing a gun at somebody and they quickly move out of the way before you stop firing, your bullets would hit whatever is behind them, be it a wall, something flammable, or another enemy which you would then obviously aggro.)
- The speed does not work with the lag and clicking. (There are slight pauses when holding left-click to shoot a gun, because the game now makes you pause a second to RELOAD. There is no reload animation on TC currently, so most people don't notice that.)
- This is especially bad with Melee weapons. Melee at higher levels will be more than horrible. (Melee in first person mode is difficult, but it's fine in third person mode or over-the-shoulder.)
- Occasionaly, when attacking, you can click and hold the mouse and you will not attack.
- You CAN NOT move during combat or you will miss your target, and they will NOT miss you. This makes all combat STAND AND FIGHT, and that's the OPPOSITE of what the stated goals of this system. (Haven't personally experienced this, I'll go try it sometime.)
- Added by fellow Testers:
- Creature Movements, such as jumping, make it impossible to continue attacking using the "Button Hold" system. It also takes to long to "re-aquire" the outline box. (Well, duh, you have to track them and keep aiming, not just hold the button and it'll autoattack. The point of the new system is to make it more difficult, not for people to just sit there and autohit everything.)
- Clicking Until it Hurts!!! OW!!!!! This is a huge problem. I've played for about 2 hours at a stretch and had to stop because of this. I usually can sit up to 5 hours playing SWG with no pain. (Hold down left-click. You don't have to click except once per mob you kill, unless you suck and can't aim, and you even click less now than pre-NGE where you had to double-click to activate items, now you just single-click things such as in the tutorial to get your Issued Pistol out of the cabinet.)
- Serious Lag Issues Continues: Specials delay is ridiculous.(I've noticed no lag aside from the fact that we're playing on TC with lots of AFK spammers. But then again, I have a high-end computer and uber cable.)
- LOS Issues: MOB's can shoot you from inside the environment, but you "Can not see your target"? (This is a known bug that will be fixed. Players are supposed to be able to take cover behind items in the environment, ala the crates versus stormtroopers in the beginning tutorial with Hans Solo, which uses the new collision-detection system. This will be great, and add new dynamic and tactics to combat.)
Personally, I wish it had been converted to a full FPS ala JK2 Outcast or Jedi Academy, etc. The half-and-half is crap, but that was done to appease the carebears who will resist any change, even if it's for the better. But anyway.
You don't know how melee will be useful in the new system? Alright, let me think for you...
Let's say you have a Spy with you and you're PvPing, and the Spy is noticeably lower CL. You decide to use him as bait, while you're waiting behind a corner into another room where you can't be seen. The Spy approaches with a Bounty Hunter chasing him thinking it's an easy target, shooting him as they run, and the Spy finallyrounds the corner that you're hiding behind and then uses the ability Smoke Bomb, and slowly vanishes from view, unable to be clicked on. The Bounty Hunter comes fast around the corner, and looks around for the Spy, thinking he has him cornered. This is when you pop out and have a totally unsuspecting ranged profession engaged in melee, in a room with (theoretically) one way out, and you can whup up on them with your lightsaber. This is when the Spy would come out of their Stealth and do their ninja crap on the Bounty Hunter, too.
This is just an example of how PvP can become more dynamic by using terrain and ambushing, and how a melee profession should use that to their advantage when they know they're facing ranged, otherwise you're going to be taking damage while you run at them, and they'll try to kite. All of this sounds much better to me than the typical day in Theed, where all the jedi stand around and duel each other, or a few people gang up on somebody and they force run off into the sunset.
Message Edited by Luxora on 11-07-2005 09:26 AM
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