Jedi Archive

Thread: The problems with swg and the nerf bat ( possible solution )

Leiowyn
Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:20 am
#1


Ok i am sat here thinking back on a post i read a while ago now on the combat upgrade and chatting toa friendon vent. We got to discussing what was wrong with swg atm, and come up with this.


If you can read this post first, its not too long, but explains whats wrong with having a creature level system in swg.




As you can see it's become very difficult for crafters or people of a low levelto do anything in game without help from others or explore the content the game offers.


This then leads on to my next point.


Other popular game titles ( wont mention them here ) all have 1 thing in common that swg does not share, fixed proffessions, ie :- rogues, mages, priests etc.


Yes there are sub proffessions, but they are still fixed, if you choose a mage for instance, you are a mage, or sub set. You cannot choose to be a mage / priest for example. On top of this, you can in these other games choose a crafting proffession on top of your main combat proffession, making the creature level system work, as you can harvest / collect / mine your own stuff and still be able to protect yourself.


In swg you can choose to be anything you want, now while i love this about swg, it does make balancing proffessions extremly difficult in pvp and in pve. Which is why the nerf bat is constantly being swung.


Some solutions :-


1 ) Remove the creature level from the game and return it back the way it was, after all a creature is a creature. This would allow lower levels access to the game once more.


or :-


2 ) Remove all proffs from the game as we know it and re-introduce them as fixed proffessions, this will help with balancing proffs to each other.

For example, A rifleman is a rifleman, period. A fencer is a fencer etc... Then allow everyone the chance to master for free ( no sp )1 crafting proffession. without removing the creature level system.


All proffessions would have sub sets ( including Jedi )


Number 2 would fix so much that is wrong atm, that we could then as a community concentrate on content.


What do you think ?



Leiowyn
Guardian of Tarantek's Bane

Pre-CU JEDI KNIGHT * Brotherhood of the Sword

Once more under the guidance of Luscio

Zarqon
Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am
#2

I think options number 2 should be avoided at all costs, as the profession system, although difficult to balance, is one of the greater strengths of SWG.


Option 1 is better, but note that even before the CU there was a level system to everything, only it was a bit more hidden. I think it will do a lot for making the grind feel less like a grind if only players would gain on killing different things depending on their level, and not be forced to kill the same creatures from CL1 to 80.






--------------------------------------------
Karon Oblodra, Dark Jedi
Azeth Ata, Master Bounty Hunter
Terossk, Trandoshan Warrior
Guildleader of MDU

MsNiL
Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:22 am
#3



What I was thinking: Remove all "Improved" and "Advanced".


Add a skillmod to each box in all professions, such as:

Novice Doctor = Doctor Specialization +1

1000 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +2

2000 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +3

2030 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +5

Novice Force Wielder = Force Wielder Specialization +1

0044 Force Wielder = Force Wielder Specialization +9


Then make all the specials in that tree completely depending on that skillmod.

Suppression/Snare can have timer or range extended.

Damage bonuses can have higher multipliers.

Defense modifiers can have higher defensebonus.


For example, if you just pick up 0100 TKA you now get Improved Center of Being.

But with this system, to max-out CoB you really need Master TKA:

+18 TKA (TKM) = +250 Defense to Center of Being (500 defense)

+9 TKA (Like 4400 TKA) = +125 Defense to Center of Being (375 defense)

+1 TKA (Like 0100 TKA) = +14 Defense to Center of Being (264 defense)


+18 Swordman = 60% armorbreak

+9 Swordman (Like 0044 TKA) = 30% armorbreak


With this you can still dabble. The powers you get will be helpful, but you cannot purchase the "best" with only a few skillpoints, and Masters will always be better in their specialization, but less suited for different situations thanthey are specialized in.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-11-2005 12:27 PM



--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.
Leiowyn
Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:44 am
#4






MsNiL wrote:



What I was thinking: Remove all "Improved" and "Advanced".


Add a skillmod to each box in all professions, such as:

Novice Doctor = Doctor Specialization +1

1000 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +2

2000 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +3

2030 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +5

Novice Force Wielder = Force Wielder Specialization +1

0044 Force Wielder = Force Wielder Specialization +9


Then make all the specials in that tree completely depending on that skillmod.

Suppression/Snare can have timer or range extended.

Damage bonuses can have higher multipliers.

Defense modifiers can have higher defensebonus.


For example, if you just pick up 0100 TKA you now get Improved Center of Being.

But with this system, to max-out CoB you really need Master TKA:

+18 TKA (TKM) = +250 Defense to Center of Being (500 defense)

+9 TKA (Like 4400 TKA) = +125 Defense to Center of Being (375 defense)

+1 TKA (Like 0100 TKA) = +14 Defense to Center of Being (264 defense)


+18 Swordman = 60% armorbreak

+9 Swordman (Like 0044 TKA) = 30% armorbreak


With this you can still dabble. The powers you get will be helpful, but you cannot purchase the "best" with only a few skillpoints, and Masters will always be better in their specialization, but less suited for different situations thanthey are specialized in.


Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-11-2005 12:27 PM




Nice ideas


But what about crafters ? pure crafters who cannot get to their harvesters or factorys because joe bloggs group has just grabbed a lvl 80 mission and its spawned next to the crafters factory etc ?


Or those surveying on planets, or going to harvestors on more dangerous planets. These players still get no help from the current system.


I was on my alt the other day, she is master artisan / chef / armoursmith. I got killed 9 times trying to leave coronet by meatlumps that had spawned everywhere.


I can see for those people it would be extremly frustrating, not to mention the decay ( it doesn't seem to matter if i insure items or not, i still get 5% decay when i die )





Leiowyn
Guardian of Tarantek's Bane

Pre-CU JEDI KNIGHT * Brotherhood of the Sword

Once more under the guidance of Luscio

MsNiL
Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:33 am
#5







Leiowyn wrote:





MsNiL wrote:



What I was thinking: Remove all "Improved" and "Advanced".


Add a skillmod to each box in all professions, such as:

Novice Doctor = Doctor Specialization +1

1000 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +2

2000 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +3

2030 Doctor = DoctorSpecialization +5

Novice Force Wielder = Force Wielder Specialization +1

0044 Force Wielder = Force Wielder Specialization +9


Then make all the specials in that tree completely depending on that skillmod.

Suppression/Snare can have timer or range extended.

Damage bonuses can have higher multipliers.

Defense modifiers can have higher defensebonus.


For example, if you just pick up 0100 TKA you now get Improved Center of Being.

But with this system, to max-out CoB you really need Master TKA:

+18 TKA (TKM) = +250 Defense to Center of Being (500 defense)

+9 TKA (Like 4400 TKA) = +125 Defense to Center of Being (375 defense)

+1 TKA (Like 0100 TKA) = +14 Defense to Center of Being (264 defense)


+18 Swordman = 60% armorbreak

+9 Swordman (Like 0044 TKA) = 30% armorbreak


With this you can still dabble. The powers you get will be helpful, but you cannot purchase the "best" with only a few skillpoints, and Masters will always be better in their specialization, but less suited for different situations thanthey are specialized in.


Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-11-200512:27 PM





Nice ideas


But what about crafters ? pure crafters who cannot get to their harvesters or factorys because joe bloggs group has just grabbed a lvl 80 mission and its spawned next to the crafters factory etc ?


Or those surveying on planets, or going to harvestors on more dangerous planets. These players still get no help from the current system.


I was on my alt the other day, she is master artisan / chef / armoursmith. I got killed 9 times trying to leave coronet by meatlumps that had spawned everywhere.


I can see for those people it would be extremly frustrating, not to mention the decay ( it doesn't seem to matter if i insure items or not, i still get 5% decay when i die )




Crafters already have 2 values: Assembly and Experimentation. You need master for the best product even if you may get your Schematic in Tier I.


When talking about survival, Artisans need a solution that do not force them to pick upa fighter template just to stay alive.


They can use Camouflage kits temporary to avoid getting killed. This is one of the things that makes Scout/Ranger useful right now.


My artisan is Master Artisan / Master Chef / Master Merchant / 4141 Scout. I use Mask Scent to avoid getting killed, and I use 4141 for harvesting.


Still 1000 brawler would help temporarily.


Yet I proposed this:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=52291





--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.
Gully311
Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:59 am
#6


My Idea is to replace the Devs with destructive ideas...



with Devs that have constructive ideas




Rytch Gullixin - Haven
Shivo Gullixin - XF


Leiowyn
Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:44 am
#7


Actually that vest is a good idea


I'm not saying that fixing proffs should take ppl months to master, make it the same time it is now. Allow ppl to drop and pick up as they choose.


But personally i like the choice in swg, im just wondering if they can, in reality ever get it right ?

Message Edited by Leiowyn on 10-11-2005 03:45 PM



Leiowyn
Guardian of Tarantek's Bane

Pre-CU JEDI KNIGHT * Brotherhood of the Sword

Once more under the guidance of Luscio

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