Jedi Archive

Thread: would a +14 general melee spd help lightsaber combat?

esinhorn
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:13 am
#1
just wondering?



ESINHORN=VENDOR LESSVENDOR

The vendorless vendor has found a home on Dantooine 1178 , -6117 near the Agro outpost


MasterRobin
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:19 am
#2
yes



*Defai Datio*
spy dude with scary R.I.S (Ex Elder jedi)

*Defen Datio* uber l33t mando dude yay
KrisKross
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:19 am
#3
no




[[Quebec OwnZ-U]]
[[Jedi Master]]
[[|||FEDS|||]]
-Married to Anvar-

Vastin
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:23 am
#4
Yes it does, u can choose every ls u want and got the boni



c Vastin Hellfire C Spy (in secret Mission) d
c Xasra Hellfire C Bounty Hunter (Mando Babe) d

Plz deliver all items to
My Vendors on Lok -970 5515
Only 1400m west of Nyms Stronghold

Before you ask anything, plz read these Links first^^
How to make a Clicky / Collected Links from SWG / Mustafarian Quest Guide
DWB Guide / Armor Rating / R.I.S. Armor Guide / Ultimate Crafting Macro
KrisKross
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:26 am
#5
no it doesn't trust me i know im the king of the world




[[Quebec OwnZ-U]]
[[Jedi Master]]
[[|||FEDS|||]]
-Married to Anvar-

HardwiredXMan
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:28 am
#6

technically, Yes. If your speed is low it will increase your speed by a bunch and you can visibly see and feel the difference.


If your a master with speed already over 100, it does increase your speed but it's so minimal that you can neither see or feel the difference. At this point you might be gaining no more than .01speed or less.


Now I haven't done any extensive testing, but i'm guessing 120 speed is more than enough for just about every profession, maybe a little more or less.


Also remember tha doc adrenaline boost and force speed do not add to your player speed skill mods like SEA's do. Those buffs simply speed up the cooldown timers allowing you to shave some time of the delay between attacks. With the cooldown timers in the game, you weapons may allow you to attack faster, but you still are gated by the cooldowns and that's where the speed buffs help. If there were no cooldown's, we could easily spam specials at once per second like the old system.
MasterRobin
Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:31 am
#7




HardwiredXMan wrote:


technically, Yes. If your speed is low it will increase your speed by a bunch and you can visibly see and feel the difference.


If your a master with speed already over 100, it does increase your speed but it's so minimal that you can neither see or feel the difference. At this point you might be gaining no more than .01speed or less.


Now I haven't done any extensive testing, but i'm guessing 120 speed is more than enough for just about every profession, maybe a little more or less.


Also remember tha doc adrenaline boost and force speed do not add to your player speed skill mods like SEA's do. Those buffs simply speed up the cooldown timers allowing you to shave some time of the delay between attacks. With the cooldown timers in the game, you weapons may allow you to attack faster, but you still are gated by the cooldowns and that's where the speed buffs help. If there were no cooldown's, we could easily spam specials at once per second like the old system.





errr no... cooldown is based on your speed... so higher speed lower cooldown..... so yea pwnT





*Defai Datio*
spy dude with scary R.I.S (Ex Elder jedi)

*Defen Datio* uber l33t mando dude yay
Taliesyn42
Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:29 am
#8

Well, since cooldown is looking at the wrongvalue (base speed instead of modfied speed), general melee speed is as worthless as any other form of speed for us.


Pwnt indeed.





Taliesyn - 12 point Master Weaponsmith
Darrke - Jedi Padawan, awaiting his Knight Trials
Intrepid Server

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)
Tsumitsuki
Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:33 am
#9
It would if speed tapes were working.. which they are not. However it will when (if?) they are fixed so worth buying for the future.


Dont believe me speed tapes not working?


Time 10 attacks with speed clothing

Time 10 attacks without speed clothing


You'll find its the same.
ther34p
Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:37 am
#10




Tsumitsuki wrote:

It would if speed tapes were working.. which they are not. However it will when (if?) they are fixed so worth buying for the future.


Dont believe me speed tapes not working?


Time 10 attacks with speed clothing

Time 10 attacks without speed clothing


You'll find its the same.




I'm assuming you mean only for Jedi they not working? They defintely work for (in my example) swordsmen. I have a +12 2h speed , but I have no 2h skills. There is a huge difference between when it's on and not, if I am using my 2h sword.



Just call me reap
CL80 BioEngineer
Tsumitsuki
Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:40 am
#11
Nope... Didnt work for my riflman either who is running +25 rifle speed.
Tsumitsuki
Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:41 am
#12

I should perhaps mention that it changes the modified speed.. but the actual attack speed remains the same


HardwiredXMan
Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:16 am
#13




MasterRobin wrote:




HardwiredXMan wrote:


technically, Yes. If your speed is low it will increase your speed by a bunch and you can visibly see and feel the difference.


If your a master with speed already over 100, it does increase your speed but it's so minimal that you can neither see or feel the difference. At this point you might be gaining no more than .01speed or less.


Now I haven't done any extensive testing, but i'm guessing 120 speed is more than enough for just about every profession, maybe a little more or less.


Also remember tha doc adrenaline boost and force speed do not add to your player speed skill mods like SEA's do. Those buffs simply speed up the cooldown timers allowing you to shave some time of the delay between attacks. With the cooldown timers in the game, you weapons may allow you to attack faster, but you still are gated by the cooldowns and that's where the speed buffs help. If there were no cooldown's, we could easily spam specials at once per second like the old system.





errr no... cooldown is based on your speed... so higher speed lower cooldown..... so yea pwnT






You misunderstand the difference. THere are two speeds in the game now, not one.


weapon speed affects how fast you can attack with the weapon you have equipped.


cooldown affects how fast you can usea single attack.


weapon speed (including SEA's) change how fast you can attack with your equipped weapon

speed buffs will speed up the cooldown timers so you can attack with the same special faster taking advantage of your full weapon speed.


If you have a weapon speed of 3.0 and a cooldown that it 2.0, you cannot swing or fire that weapon faster than 3.0


It the same the other way around, if your weapon has 1.5 speed and you use a special with a cooldown timer of 3 seconds....you can never execute that special faster than 3 seconds even if you alternate between two different combat moves. The warmup (if any) and execution of the second move is firing while the first move is still cooling down. by the time the second move is going into it's cooldown, the first move's cooldown is finished and you can fire it again.


Weapon speed is your overall speed with the equipped weapon and affects all special abilities. Cooldown timers affect a single move only. SEA's boost weapons speed, adrenaline boost and force speed, makes the cooldowns faster, not the weapon speed. It's easy to confuse the two.


So if you have a weapon speed of 1.5 and you use a special with a 3 second cool down....it will take you 3 seconds to fire that one special over and over again.....get SEA's and you still cannot fire that special more than once every 3 seconds. However, you go get speed buffs and now the cool down is decreased some, allowing you to use that one move faster than normal. If the speed buff is high enough, it migh allow you to attack with that special at the full 1.5 speed listed on your weapon.


So when people say SEA's don't work, this is one of the things they don't understand. It's not like it use to be where all speed was based on your player speed skill mod. It has changed, now we have two speeds to worry about instead of one.


With the diminishing returns forumla in the game, that also makes a difference. If your master sabers, master **whatever elite profession** with speed over 90, 100, 110.....you will not see SEA's help you much.....but if you have 40, 50 speed, you will see a huge increase in speed becuase at low speed levels, your weapon speed is always slower than any cooldowns of any specials you have. Once your speed gets faster than any cooldown timers, you won't see any effects of SEA's because the cooldown timers are gating you from getting any faster.


Now when you alternate attacks you can see that weapon speed helps becuase you don't have to wait for a cooldown timer of the first special ability but instead only have to wait for the amount of time listed on your weapon. Speed SEA's will help here too. That's why you can see a delay after you have done one move and a second move.....the cooldown timers migh overlap. For example, power attack has a 6 sec. cooldown.....saber hit has about a 1.5 second cooldown. If you do power attack, then saber hit, you would have to wait a few more seconds before you can do power attack again. But get a speed buff and the 6 second cooldown of power attack may become 3 seconds. saber hit cooldown will get reduced as well, and that is when your weapon speed is the limit of your speed.



Things to consider before you say SEA's don't work (because in fact they do work from my test)...



  • Do you have a player speed skill mod above 100 (including SEA's, general speed)

  • Do you have or are you using adrenaline boost or force speed

  • What is the cooldown timer on your specials you are using.

  • Are you alternating attacks or are you using one single attack.

Those are just some things you have to know before you can truely gauge if SEA's are workign for you.


Also, the reason DPS listed on weapons is not a good gauge to go by is because it's based on using the basic attack of your profession and also only on that one move. It doesn't take into account the ability to alternate between two attacks. For example, if you do a 1200 power hit, followed by a 1000 saber throw....you can do that in 2 - 3 seconds......your saber may have a DPS of 400ish, but with those 2 attacks, you've actually done up to a min of 733 dps or if you could get them off in 2 seconds, you'd have a 1100 DPS. If you used 2 saber hits instead, you'd probably come close to your listed DPS.


One simple thing you can look at to see that speed buffs don't affect your weapon speed is that it doesn't show on your weapon when your speed buffed. all other buffs, like HAM buffs show an increase because they are affecting that pool. If speed buffs affected the weapon speed or player speed skill mod, you'd see either your listed weapon speed increased or your overall player speed skill mod increased (ctrl-c) if speed buffs affected them.


All buffs (not SEA's) will show some kind of augmentation to the stat or pool they affect. Even regen buffs augment the constitution, stamina and willpower....those 3 HAM bars are hidden from use, but they are there.....they might not be called by the same name anymore, but my research shows they are there.

Page 1 of 2
Previous Next