Jedi Archive
Thread: Godlike template?
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Durzel
Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:57 am
#1
Been thinking, assuming you had a sabre of decent DPS (600+ I guess), how would this template feel:
Master Lightsabre (obviously) - 89pts
4040 Defender (Imp Aura, some extra innate and melee defence for when you are toe-to-toe in PvP/PvE) - 48pts
3402 Enhancer (Force Armor to augment Imp Aura, an all important root and snare to facilitate melee mashups) - 60pts
4000 Healer (1500 heals, nuff said) - 28pts
225 skillpoints used, 1 remaining.
The Good
Imp Force Armor with 4xxx or x4xx defender gives you 8200 innate armor (57% damage mitigation). Master Defender on its own only gives you 7000 innate armor (53% mitigation). See this link for analysis of this.
Imp Aura, ftw - obviously
Force Suppression, to root your prey (i.e. BH)
Force Channel, if they think they're going to try and outlast your Force pool
Force Speed 2, for +20.00 combat speed. Chop up everything in half the time!
Everything good about MLS - Imp Armor Break, Power Attack, Sabre Throw with KD (perfect for after rooting someone, for more dmg)
The Bad
You're not a Master Defender so no AI (useless in BH situations surely?)
You're not quite the tank you could be. If all you want to do at all is solo mobs which would normally kill you in seconds (i.e. require AI), then this template isn't for you.
No Force Valor - you'll get hit more with ranged attacks. You could substitute xxx2 in Enhancer for xxx2 in Defender for basic Valor, but you'd lose the ability to root.
You'll eat some Force when you're getting hit because of Force Armor, as opposed to a MDef where its a passive defence.
...and that's it I think?
I'm not a MLS/MDef (I'm MPowers, etc) but I do know how effective root is, and how often it appears that BH vs MLS/MDef fights go on for an eternity not because the MLS couldn't slice his foe up if he got close enough, but simply because he/she can't stay close enough for long. Root gives you that advantage.
Anyone care to comment on this template suggestion? From my perspective, having had experience of Imp Aura & Imp Force Armor and only getting hurt slightly more than a MDef spinning a lair, I personally can't see how MDef is essential unless all you want to do is solo Necrosis, etc. MLS/MDef seems more of a bane in everyday BH encounters from what I have seen.
Thoughts?
Master Lightsabre (obviously) - 89pts
4040 Defender (Imp Aura, some extra innate and melee defence for when you are toe-to-toe in PvP/PvE) - 48pts
3402 Enhancer (Force Armor to augment Imp Aura, an all important root and snare to facilitate melee mashups) - 60pts
4000 Healer (1500 heals, nuff said) - 28pts
225 skillpoints used, 1 remaining.
The Good
The Bad
I'm not a MLS/MDef (I'm MPowers, etc) but I do know how effective root is, and how often it appears that BH vs MLS/MDef fights go on for an eternity not because the MLS couldn't slice his foe up if he got close enough, but simply because he/she can't stay close enough for long. Root gives you that advantage.
Anyone care to comment on this template suggestion? From my perspective, having had experience of Imp Aura & Imp Force Armor and only getting hurt slightly more than a MDef spinning a lair, I personally can't see how MDef is essential unless all you want to do is solo Necrosis, etc. MLS/MDef seems more of a bane in everyday BH encounters from what I have seen.
Thoughts?
Message Edited by Durzel on 09-07-2005 04:59 PM
Phenix1050
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:03 am
#2
exact template I was thinking, actually.
Biggest drawback is that force armor uses force, and without a double-mastery template, your force pool is lower. But I've always prefered actively having to make decisions in combat, rather than simply having innnate mods take care of everything for me.
This template sounds FUN. I'm not sure you're god-like, but that should never be your goal. Every template has a weakness, and no matter what you pick, somebody will be able to beat you, be it BH or Jedi. THe best thing to do is to pick a template that's FUN, which this seems to be. Also, with the right FS skills, you'll be very effective. Best FS template melee speed +accuracy, ranged + melee defense, the survival tree (TN and the ability to place camps to heal wounds) and 1 box of the vehicle box with that spare point you have.
Durzel
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:07 am
#3
True, I think godlike is probably the wrong word. Right now, MLS/MDef is about as godlike as you can get if you factor AI into the equation.
This template isn't an option for me at the moment because I have a crappy sabre, but I was just thinking about what seemed to be MLS/MDef biggest nightmare in everyday battles - and thats people like me (MPowers = kiters), and MBHs who want to be as far away from you as possible at all times.
I'd wager most MLS with a decent sabre would take less than 15 seconds to dispatch a rooted BH, and probably a lot of Jedi (myself included
). It is a surprise therefore that more of them don't seem to want to get Force Suppresion. It's the perfect skill to augment a hugely damaging melee template.
This template isn't an option for me at the moment because I have a crappy sabre, but I was just thinking about what seemed to be MLS/MDef biggest nightmare in everyday battles - and thats people like me (MPowers = kiters), and MBHs who want to be as far away from you as possible at all times.
I'd wager most MLS with a decent sabre would take less than 15 seconds to dispatch a rooted BH, and probably a lot of Jedi (myself included
). It is a surprise therefore that more of them don't seem to want to get Force Suppresion. It's the perfect skill to augment a hugely damaging melee template.
Eskie
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:09 am
#4
Durzel wrote:
Been thinking, assuming you had a sabre of decent DPS (600+ I guess), how would this template feel:
Master Lightsabre (obviously) - 89pts
4040 Defender (Imp Aura, some extra innate and melee defence for when you are toe-to-toe in PvP/PvE) - 48pts
3402 Enhancer (Force Armor to augment Imp Aura, an all important root and snare to facilitate melee mashups) - 60pts
4000 Healer (1500 heals, nuff said) - 28pts
225 skillpoints used, 1 remaining.
The GoodImp Force Armor with 4xxx or x4xx defender gives you 8200 innate armor (57% damage mitigation). Master Defender on its own only gives you 7000 innate armor (53% mitigation). See this link for analysis of this. Imp Aura, ftw - obviously Force Suppression, to root your prey (i.e. BH) Force Channel, if they think they're going to try and outlast your Force pool Force Speed 2, for +20.00 combat speed. Chop up everything in half the time! Everything good about MLS - Imp Armor Break, Power Attack, Sabre Throw with KD (perfect for after rooting someone, for more dmg)
The BadYou're not a Master Defender so no AI (useless in BH situations surely?) You're not quite the tank you could be. If all you want to do at all is solo mobs which would normally kill you in seconds (i.e. require AI), then this template isn't for you. No Force Valor - you'll get hit more with ranged attacks. You could substitute xxx2 in Enhancer for xxx2 in Defender for basic Valor, but you'd lose the ability to root. You'll eat some Force when you're getting hit because of Force Armor, as opposed to a MDef where its a passive defence. ...and that's it I think?
I'm not a MLS/MDef (I'm MPowers, etc) but I do know how effective root is, and how often it appears that BH vs MLS/MDef fights go on for an eternity not because the MLS couldn't slice his foe up if he got close enough, but simply because he/she can't stay close enough for long. Root gives you that advantage.
Anyone care to comment on this template suggestion? From my perspective, having had experience of Imp Aura & Imp Force Armor and only getting hurt slightly more than a MDef spinning a lair, I personally can't see how MDef is essential unless all you want to do is solo Necrosis, etc. MLS/MDef seems more of a bane in everyday BH encounters from what I have seen.
Thoughts?Message Edited by Durzel on 09-07-2005 04:59 PM
MLS / Enh 3402 / Def 4040 / Heal 4000 is already the new non-cloaking FOTM.
Just a few comments:
- By switching Enh xxx2 to Def xxx2 you dont lose the root, only the snare, and you make your template worse. You dont really need Valor if you have Aura - and you can substitute basic Valor with foods.
- You actually have better innate armor as a MDef, you are losing about 200 points in defense, though. Overall you should take about the same damage in PvE, at a slight Force cost for every hit you take. That is what Enh xxx2 is for - learn to live around 2500 health (which you can rise back up with foods / drinks / spices / buffs) and you should have enough Force for most situations.
- Your template is more Enhancer-heavy than any MDef template. Watch out for MPowers spamming Force Breach on you - you dont have to worry about Aura alone now. On the other hand, you gain a huge edge over Powers with Force Feedback, Force Absorb and basic Force Shield.
Jacella
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:13 am
#5
Force armour is a weakness, imho. I prefer the innate defenses that don't suck force away from me. In a prolonged fight, channel is worthless, but not having the additional drain on your force bar is golden
Durzel
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:14 am
#6
Good point, I confused the location of Wave and Suppression
As you say, Channel definitely outweighs Valor (especially since regular Valor has a nasty damage reduction), particularly since you have less Force than normal, and are burning through more Force just defending yourself.
I didn't realise this template was becoming the current FoTM - I honestly just thought about it a few minutes ago. Everyone I have come across seems to have gone for the boilerplate MLS/MDef/3000 Heal/0002 Enh.
As you say, Channel definitely outweighs Valor (especially since regular Valor has a nasty damage reduction), particularly since you have less Force than normal, and are burning through more Force just defending yourself.
I didn't realise this template was becoming the current FoTM - I honestly just thought about it a few minutes ago. Everyone I have come across seems to have gone for the boilerplate MLS/MDef/3000 Heal/0002 Enh.
Durzel
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:19 am
#7
Jacella wrote:
Force armour is a weakness, imho. I prefer the innate defenses that don't suck force away from me. In a prolonged fight, channel is worthless, but not having the additional drain on your force bar is golden
I disagree. It used to be the case that Force Armor was pretty worthless but since they made it into +6000 Armor and reduced the FC when you're hit - it's pretty effective now. IFA only becomes really Force hungry if you're getting wailed on by lots of mobs hitting you for small amounts of damage (as the conversion ratio is fixed). It's certainly not a template you'd want to use for spinning a lair, but if you were full template why would you ever want to do this anyway (besides helping out other people).
You will definitely use more Force than normal, but is Force really a problem in BH encounters? I had always presumed it was the whole "war of attrition" part of it, fights that go on for forever until eventually someones regular HAM is too low, or they get the KD bug, or your Force is gone. You aren't gonna lose your Force bar in a fight that lasts a couple of minutes which, with root, it should only last that long.
Eskie
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:20 am
#8
Durzel wrote:
Good point, I confused the location of Wave and Suppression
As you say, Channel definitely outweighs Valor (especially since regular Valor has a nasty damage reduction), particularly since you have less Force than normal, and are burning through more Force just defending yourself.
I didn't realise this template was becoming the current FoTM - I honestly just thought about it a few minutes ago. Everyone I have come across seems to have gone for the boilerplate MLS/MDef/3000 Heal/0002 Enh.
Yup. Thats because MDef / MLS is an awesome tank on paper and people start to realize now that all the defense and damage output are not worth a lot when you are being attacked with DoTs (not affected by armor), snared or rooted, regen-gimped and then kited to death.
The reason MBH / MCM is the FOTM BH template is because it is very effective against the last FOTM Jedi template
Durzel
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:27 am
#9
Eskie wrote:
Durzel wrote:
Good point, I confused the location of Wave and Suppression
As you say, Channel definitely outweighs Valor (especially since regular Valor has a nasty damage reduction), particularly since you have less Force than normal, and are burning through more Force just defending yourself.
I didn't realise this template was becoming the current FoTM - I honestly just thought about it a few minutes ago. Everyone I have come across seems to have gone for the boilerplate MLS/MDef/3000 Heal/0002 Enh.
Yup. Thats because MDef / MLS is an awesome tank on paper and people start to realize now that all the defense and damage output are not worth a lot when you are being attacked with DoTs (not affected by armor), snared or rooted, regen-gimped and then kited to death.
The reason MBH / MCM is the FOTM BH template is because it is very effective against the last FOTM Jedi template
Very true.
But then, what defence is there against being rooted?
Doesn't really matter if you're a MBH or MPowers, if you are rooted to the spot with someone next to you with AB/Power Attack, you're probably going down. I know I did last night, twice.
I can kite MLS/MDefs all day long and apart from their Sabre Throw which is easy enough to counteract (rooting them as they do it, so they can't close while you are KD) they aren't a danger until they get in range. Obviously I can't kill them either, but that's a different problem entirely (MPowers being gimped). I see what you're saying about MBH/MCM being a response to MLS/MDef - and a good response at that. It's surprising to see so many people going MLS/MDef without much thought at all about how they play.
Samun
Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:55 am
#10
Durzel wrote:
Been thinking, assuming you had a sabre of decent DPS (600+ I guess), how would this template feel:
Master Lightsabre (obviously) - 89pts
4040 Defender (Imp Aura, some extra innate and melee defence for when you are toe-to-toe in PvP/PvE) - 48pts
3402 Enhancer (Force Armor to augment Imp Aura, an all important root and snare to facilitate melee mashups) - 60pts
4000 Healer (1500 heals, nuff said) - 28pts
225 skillpoints used, 1 remaining.
...
This is very similar to what I'm looking at doing, except I'm considering substituting the 4xxx line of Defender for the xx4x line of Healer for Improved Force Sap and Improved Force Shock.
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