Jedi Archive

Thread: BH vs Jedi Solution

abbink
Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:00 am
#1

Cyrex wrote:

I have been loathe to address PvP because there are to many outside varables that can make you loose. PvP in its present format has the jedi goiing into the boxing ring with one hand tied behind his/her back. for all of those that say Jedi is a PvP profession, it is not it is a "Target profession". For there to be true PvP a Jedi would be able to hunt BH's , if BH's love PvP so much and want Jedi to not to run, then make PvP cut both ways. this is te major flaw in the PvP configuration today. If I were to reconfigure the PvP situation this is how I would do it. I expect there will be those that disagree, but you can't please everyone, but adressing the premise is most appreciated.

PVP

Ther will be4 PvP classes in starwars: Light Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Dark Jedi, Assasins.

Light Jedi are what they are pretty much self explained Alliance declared

Bounty hunters stay in their present form but have to be Allaince declared

Dark Jedi are what they are . Imperial declared

Assassins , bounty hunter counterparts Imperial declared.

In essence PvP has to be slanted uponAlliance/Imperial confrontation.As always the devil is in the details and to flush out a solid PvP system will cost ton of money and programming time. As it stands current PvP is just adding or subtractingabilites to classes to keep it interesting, but as always there is constant rebalanceing the minute the base finds tactics that allow their abilites to be used in ways that give them advantages. So PvP is going to be one hard nut to crack to make work, but if the time is taken and the players involved, it might just save this realm we call Star wars..We can only hope.





thats why i say change it so that only the pvp style players can get involved. The pve style players can stay out if they want. You never hear those players that are special forces 24/7 complaining about unfairness or screaming for nerfs or un-nerfs. Atleast i dont think those types of players are the ones complaining. Its typically the players that dont want to be involved in pvp or pvp only when they want to that complain the most. So is say keep them out of the mix if they dont want to be in it.






Too often players and the devs have a mindset that professions should be balanced with 1 on 1 pvp in mind. This mindset is ruining the game. The benchmark for balance should be determined by the role a profession plays in a group setting. As long as the current mindset continues we will never see uniqueness among the professions, nor will we ever see individuality within a given profession. We will never see the SWG universe expanded as the focus will only ever be balance pass after balance pass after balance pass.


Message Edited by abbink on 07-26-200609:32 AM


abbink
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:02 am
#2
Alot of people argue on these forums that the bounty hunter versus jedi content is forced pvp and that its not fair. Others will argue that its part of being a jedi. Ive heard very good arguments justifying both sides. But anyone who reads this must admitt that it is a subject that causes alot of contention and hate on these forums.This is my attempt to throw out and idea theyi think would help solve the problem and please both sides. But watch this post turn into a flame fest any way. Assuming anyone takes the time to read this.


1.) For the bounty hunters. Any player that goes special forces regardless of profession or factionwould have their name appear on the bounty hunter terminals.This will give an oppurtunity for bh to hone their skills fighting other professions and this will be the only avenue that you could kill same faction. Lets face it bounty hunters are ment to be scum. Now a bh should still be able to choose to hunt opposing factionplayers onlybut should still have an option to hunt same faction as is true with hunting jedi. The payout would be based on the faction rank of the mark. Example: If a player goes Special Forces and has the rank of colonel in his/her faction the payout would be much greater than say a special forces player that has the rank of sergant. If the bh kills his mark then the special forces player will be demoted by one rank and can possible be demoted all the way down to private. However it would stop at private and no faction points would be lost thus preventing players that get killed from getting kicked out of their faction. The role playing behind this would be for example the imperials hiring bounty hunters to kill key high ranking personel in the opposing faction or killing personel in the same faction that have gone rogue or whos loyalty is questionable.


2.) For jedi. I would say leave pvp to those that really want to be involved. Just my oppinion trying to appease both sides now. Any Jedi that is a combatant will generate visibility by preforming actions that are jedi like in front of npc's or pc as in the current system. Thus keeping the elimant of surprise for those that like it. Those that are special forces would have their name automatically apear on terminals. Those that are on leave continuosly will not generate visibility at all. As a jedi then in the rebel alliance that is a colonel you could have missions generate on the terminals because you are a jedi and because you have rank. The payouts would differ based on your rank and how much skill points are devoted to jedi. Nuertal jedi that still want to get involved in pvp could be able to go to a force shrine and radial menu declare a type of combatant or special forces status.


There is the idea. Alot more could be added to enhance the dynamics of it, but its a place to start. What do you think? Any thing you think could be added?






Too often players and the devs have a mindset that professions should be balanced with 1 on 1 pvp in mind. This mindset is ruining the game. The benchmark for balance should be determined by the role a profession plays in a group setting. As long as the current mindset continues we will never see uniqueness among the professions, nor will we ever see individuality within a given profession. We will never see the SWG universe expanded as the focus will only ever be balance pass after balance pass after balance pass.


Message Edited by abbink on 07-26-200609:32 AM


Jacella
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:06 am
#3

The idea is well thought out, but I disagree. When we take on the role of jedi, pvp is part of that. The idea that it's forced is just wrong. That's like people who join the millitary, go into special forces, then decide that sending them to the battle is Forced PVP.


Jedi IS that Special Forces...better yet, Delta. You decide to become a jedi, you have decided that PVP will be a major part of your life, consentual or not.







___________________(J)__________________
||There is no other (Sith-)||ggggggggggggggg
ggggggggggggggggggggggggg||Jacella||
abbink
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:20 am
#4

Jacella wrote:

The idea is well thought out, but I disagree. When we take on the role of jedi, pvp is part of that. The idea that it's forced is just wrong. That's like people who join the millitary, go into special forces, then decide that sending them to the battle is Forced PVP.

Jedi IS that Special Forces...better yet, Delta. You decide to become a jedi, you have decided that PVP will be a major part of your life, consentual or not.





yah i know lots of peeps say that. Jedi = pvp. But not all peeps went that route because they wanted to pvp. They went jedi because to them star wars = jedi not jedi = pvp. Now you could arguably say however that most people go bh because bh most definately can = pvp. Not nessacarily though. Hence why they have npc marks on the terminals too. Some people really dont like pvp and prefer cooperative pve. That is the reason the devs came out with the on leave, combatant, special forces system in the galactic civil war. Remember the days when you got a tef for attacking opposing faction npc's and any overt could attack you. They changed that dynamic to incorperate different play styles. I think that is the reason we see so much hate concerning the subject. There just isnt enough diversity in play styles in the current bh vs jedi system. Was hoping to throw out an idea to solve that. I would wager that because of the turmoil the current system creates the devs are aware and are working on a way already to incooperate different play styles into the current jedi system. Because lets face it, and i know the devs already know this all too well, the days of jedi being rare are over.






Too often players and the devs have a mindset that professions should be balanced with 1 on 1 pvp in mind. This mindset is ruining the game. The benchmark for balance should be determined by the role a profession plays in a group setting. As long as the current mindset continues we will never see uniqueness among the professions, nor will we ever see individuality within a given profession. We will never see the SWG universe expanded as the focus will only ever be balance pass after balance pass after balance pass.


Message Edited by abbink on 07-26-200609:32 AM


Cyrex
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:25 am
#5

I have been loathe to address PvP because there are to many outside varables that can make you loose. PvP in its present format has the jedi goiing into the boxing ring with one hand tied behind his/her back. for all of those that say Jedi is a PvP profession, it is not it is a "Target profession". For there to be true PvP a Jedi would be able to hunt BH's , if BH's love PvP so much and want Jedi to not to run, then make PvP cut both ways. this is te major flaw in the PvP configuration today. If I were to reconfigure the PvP situation this is how I would do it. I expect there will be those that disagree, but you can't please everyone, but adressing the premise is most appreciated.



PVP


Ther will be4 PvP classes in starwars: Light Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Dark Jedi, Assasins.


Light Jedi are what they are pretty much self explained Alliance declared


Bounty hunters stay in their present form but have to be Allaince declared


Dark Jedi are what they are . Imperial declared


Assassins , bounty hunter counterparts Imperial declared.



In essence PvP has to be slanted uponAlliance/Imperial confrontation.As always the devil is in the details and to flush out a solid PvP system will cost ton of money and programming time. As it stands current PvP is just adding or subtractingabilites to classes to keep it interesting, but as always there is constant rebalanceing the minute the base finds tactics that allow their abilites to be used in ways that give them advantages. So PvP is going to be one hard nut to crack to make work, but if the time is taken and the players involved, it might just save this realm we call Star wars..We can only hope.






First step towards wisdom is knowing you know nothing
abbink
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:35 am
#6

Cyrex wrote:

I have been loathe to address PvP because there are to many outside varables that can make you loose. PvP in its present format has the jedi goiing into the boxing ring with one hand tied behind his/her back. for all of those that say Jedi is a PvP profession, it is not it is a "Target profession". For there to be true PvP a Jedi would be able to hunt BH's , if BH's love PvP so much and want Jedi to not to run, then make PvP cut both ways. this is te major flaw in the PvP configuration today. If I were to reconfigure the PvP situation this is how I would do it. I expect there will be those that disagree, but you can't please everyone, but adressing the premise is most appreciated.

PVP

Ther will be4 PvP classes in starwars: Light Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Dark Jedi, Assasins.

Light Jedi are what they are pretty much self explained Alliance declared

Bounty hunters stay in their present form but have to be Allaince declared

Dark Jedi are what they are . Imperial declared

Assassins , bounty hunter counterparts Imperial declared.

In essence PvP has to be slanted uponAlliance/Imperial confrontation.As always the devil is in the details and to flush out a solid PvP system will cost ton of money and programming time. As it stands current PvP is just adding or subtractingabilites to classes to keep it interesting, but as always there is constant rebalanceing the minute the base finds tactics that allow their abilites to be used in ways that give them advantages. So PvP is going to be one hard nut to crack to make work, but if the time is taken and the players involved, it might just save this realm we call Star wars..We can only hope.





thats why i say change it so that only the pvp style players can get involved. The pve style players can stay out if they want. You never hear those players that are special forces 24/7 complaining about unfairness or screaming for nerfs or un-nerfs. Atleast i dont think those types of players are the ones complaining. Its typically the players that dont want to be involved in pvp or pvp only when they want to that complain the most. So is say keep them out of the mix if they dont want to be in it.






Too often players and the devs have a mindset that professions should be balanced with 1 on 1 pvp in mind. This mindset is ruining the game. The benchmark for balance should be determined by the role a profession plays in a group setting. As long as the current mindset continues we will never see uniqueness among the professions, nor will we ever see individuality within a given profession. We will never see the SWG universe expanded as the focus will only ever be balance pass after balance pass after balance pass.


Message Edited by abbink on 07-26-200609:32 AM


Jacella
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:44 am
#7
Asking to make this game "Friendly" is killing this profession and making this game unfun. I miss the tefs, I miss all of the pre-cu. I would rather be hunted by Uber-Melee stackers with legendary hammers than deal with the Playskool version of what SWG is becomming.





___________________(J)__________________
||There is no other (Sith-)||ggggggggggggggg
ggggggggggggggggggggggggg||Jacella||
GlargTheKelfn
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:45 am
#8
the game & players havre changed quite a bit since the first 6 months or so when all this bh / jedi crap went in.

for the first year, the only ones who unlocked jedi were powergamer / uber pvp types, as it took that kind of determination to get it. now, there is a new crop of jedi who want to be rp'ers, peaceful jedi, non pvp, etc. the strength of jedi has been reduced many times since this stuff went in.

it is time for the devs to give jedi the same choice all other players have: to pvp or not. as more and more non pvp types unlock jedi, this will become ever more of a serious matter, and the dev's will have to address it at some point.

the idea that your jedi is to be 'punished' with vis for engaging the only high end content (npc's) is beyond stupid. it's time for our coro to step up and push for a gameplay change.




\ Shuggoth's Sugar Shack of Loot /
\ 324, -3627 - Outside Coronet /
\ -Servants of Hastur Outlet- /

Hastur - Human Jedi | Gnomely - Sull Spy | Shuggoth - Wookie Slave / ShipWright

RIP All of the above 07.13.03 - 03.20.06
Killed by poor gameplay and developer mismanagment
Mironus
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:46 am
#9

If you don't want to pvp, stay off the terminals. You knew full well what jedi meant when you took the class. It isn't that easy to gank low level paddies anymore and there are fewer Bounty Hunters left because of it.


With the changes in visibility, it is much easier to do now. It does limit what you can hunt, and were it is safest to hunt as well. You could grind on Dant in groups and still out beat the visibility in terms of xp loss.


I am glad the days of fewer jedi are over. It gives us more people to Hunt.




Drop off at Chef Vendor @ TheHunt Pa hall Kaadara, Naboo /waypoint 5137 5498

Miron || **The Bounty Hunter** || THE HUNT
Heaven Won't Take Us and Hell Is Afraid We'll Take Over
Jedi Served #96


Let me guess, I picked out yet another colorful mission with a jedi that I'm expected to shoot and shoot until OOP! big shock, the jedi falls down and dies and my kids laugh and the dog laughs and I die a little inside
Tactical_Dave
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:47 am
#10
There is a choice of course

Jedi=pvp or Jedi=hermit


You must choose wisely



______________________________
I am Mayoboot. You are not. That is the way of teh universe, you poor fellow.
abbink
Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:59 am
#11

Jacella wrote:
Asking to make this game "Friendly" is killing this profession and making this game unfun. I miss the tefs, I miss all of the pre-cu. I would rather be hunted by Uber-Melee stackers with legendary hammers than deal with the Playskool version of what SWG is becomming.




if we dont push to make it friendly though both professions are going to get nerfed to uselessness. It has already begun. Friendly = no nerfs and powerful bounty hunter and jedi profesions. Current system = hate, contention, and nerf nerf nerf.






Too often players and the devs have a mindset that professions should be balanced with 1 on 1 pvp in mind. This mindset is ruining the game. The benchmark for balance should be determined by the role a profession plays in a group setting. As long as the current mindset continues we will never see uniqueness among the professions, nor will we ever see individuality within a given profession. We will never see the SWG universe expanded as the focus will only ever be balance pass after balance pass after balance pass.


Message Edited by abbink on 07-26-200609:32 AM


Jacella
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:02 am
#12
Well, I think that is we asked for the power of the conflict to go up, ie faster timers, lower sac/FC on attacks and increases in damage on both sides, we could achieve the leevls that we want. Right now, the dev's don't know what the right balance is, so they are tweaking to get there. Hopefully, once they find that sympatico, they will turn up the volume.





___________________(J)__________________
||There is no other (Sith-)||ggggggggggggggg
ggggggggggggggggggggggggg||Jacella||
abbink
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:11 am
#13

Jacella wrote:
Well, I think that is we asked for the power of the conflict to go up, ie faster timers, lower sac/FC on attacks and increases in damage on both sides, we could achieve the leevls that we want. Right now, the dev's don't know what the right balance is, so they are tweaking to get there. Hopefully, once they find that sympatico, they will turn up the volume.




i just think we will never get everyone to agree and no matter how balanced the system seems those that dont want to pvp will scream and both professions will get nerfed again and the cycle will continue. Those that dont want to pvp get them out of there. Still let them be jedi i suppose as its what everyone wants to do and since there is no way to roll back the clock and make jedi rare again.






Too often players and the devs have a mindset that professions should be balanced with 1 on 1 pvp in mind. This mindset is ruining the game. The benchmark for balance should be determined by the role a profession plays in a group setting. As long as the current mindset continues we will never see uniqueness among the professions, nor will we ever see individuality within a given profession. We will never see the SWG universe expanded as the focus will only ever be balance pass after balance pass after balance pass.


Message Edited by abbink on 07-26-200609:32 AM


Page 1 of 1
Previous Next