Jedi Archive

Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-19-2005 10:24 AM

Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-19-2005 10:49 AM

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Grunzer wrote:

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jultam wrote:

5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance)

I would like clarification on this as it pertains to forcecloak

here are some non-combat actions

ForceRun?

Forcespeed?

Channel?

logout?

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HELIOS SAYS

"Force cloak is currently intended to be an alpha strike facilitator, not a "get oufa fight and regenerate free" card; nor was it intended to letme selectively bypass content. Force Run was designed to be a (more) balanced escape mechanism for Jedi. With the new hiding/stealth system, you can probably count on mostany action that would let you get backin the fight for free (after you would have probably lost) to breakstealth(including Force Cloak). That includes the abilities you asked about. As a general note, logging out/in whilst having a hiding/stealth buff on you (including cloak), removes that buff. If it looks like the fight is going southI tend to Burst/Force Run now." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jultam wrote: 5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance) I would like clarification on this as it pertains to forcecloak here are some non-combat actions ForceRun? Forcespeed? Channel? logout? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Force cloak is currently intended to be an alpha strike facilitator, not a "get ouf a fight and regenerate free" card; nor was it intended to let me selectively bypass content. Force Run was designed to be a (more) balanced escape mechanism for Jedi. With the new hiding/stealth system, you can probably count on most any action that would let you get back in the fight for free (after you would have probably lost) to break stealth (including Force Cloak). That includes the abilities you asked about. As a general note, logging out/in whilst having a hiding/stealth buff on you (including cloak), removes that buff. If it looks like the fight is going south I tend to Burst/Force Run now. Please keep in mind that everything is subject to more play testing and balancing.

Please keep in mind that everything is subject to more play testing and balancing.

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So he's saying all the actions, but not limited to the ones, in green will break cloak. Hmm.

Message Edited by Faelazao on 09-19-2005 12:25 PM

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Faelazao wrote:

So he's saying all the actions, but not limited to the ones, in green will break cloak. Hmm.

Message Edited by Faelazao on 09-19-2005 12:25 PM

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Good luck getting the alpha strike on someone while snared.

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WookieOgre wrote:

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Faelazao wrote:

So he's saying all the actions, but not limited to the ones, in green will break cloak. Hmm.

Message Edited by Faelazao on 09-19-2005 12:25 PM

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He is stating there is no way Cloak will be a valid escape tactic by the end of that patch. If there is any combination of skills that allows you to disengage combat because you are losing or don't want to fight, they are going to nerf it.

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/agreed. That is exactly what he is saying. My question to him though is how long he expects the person your going to attack with this ability to stand completely still in 1 single spot.. Long enough to crawl within 10 meters? hehe.

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Grunzer wrote:

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jultam wrote:

5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance)

I would like clarification on this as it pertains to forcecloak

here are some non-combat actions

ForceRun?

Forcespeed?

Channel?

logout?

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HELIOS SAYS

"Force cloak is currently intended to be an alpha strike facilitator, not a "get oufa fight and regenerate free" card; nor was it intended to letme selectively bypass content. Force Run was designed to be a (more) balanced escape mechanism for Jedi. With the new hiding/stealth system, you can probably count on mostany action that would let you get backin the fight for free (after you would have probably lost) to breakstealth(including Force Cloak). That includes the abilities you asked about. As a general note, logging out/in whilst having a hiding/stealth buff on you (including cloak), removes that buff. If it looks like the fight is going southI tend to Burst/Force Run now."

Please keep in mind that everything is subject to more play testing and balancing.More From Helios

Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-19-2005 10:24 AM

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so force cloaking after you we're force cloaked will break force cloak?

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Drazharr wrote:

I wish to heck he'd have clarified the most important issue here - is the Cloak nerf gonna be the same as the Avoid Incap nerf?

If it is, and Bacc seems to think so, then cloakwill beuseless unless you are a Defender.

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LOL sorry had to reply to this one............noticed helios said the word balencing haha, do you play swg it is far from balenced (yes i see/seen the soe dev tag near his name ) and sorry not a whinner just saw this and couldnt resist cause its true

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Grunzer wrote:

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Drazharr wrote:

I wish to heck he'd have clarified the most important issue here - is the Cloak nerf gonna be the same as the Avoid Incap nerf?

If it is, and Bacc seems to think so, then cloakwill beuseless unless you are a Defender.

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It will, and here's why. The code is already there for the AI snare, it's a lot more simple to just move that same code over to cloak than it is to spend days testing the snare speed. And the developers always do what's easiest for them. That is 100% guaranteed ALL the time.

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Yeah, I know. And I'm getting hammered for sayng it, lol. But I'm gonna keep saying it!

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Grunzer wrote:

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jultam wrote:

5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance)

I would like clarification on this as it pertains to forcecloak

here are some non-combat actions

ForceRun?

Forcespeed?

Channel?

logout?

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HELIOS SAYS

"Force cloak is currently intended to be an alpha strike facilitator, not a "get oufa fight and regenerate free" card; nor was it intended to letme selectively bypass content. Force Run was designed to be a (more) balanced escape mechanism for Jedi. With the new hiding/stealth system, you can probably count on mostany action that would let you get backin the fight for free (after you would have probably lost) to breakstealth(including Force Cloak). That includes the abilities you asked about. As a general note, logging out/in whilst having a hiding/stealth buff on you (including cloak), removes that buff. If it looks like the fight is going southI tend to Burst/Force Run now."

Please keep in mind that everything is subject to more play testing and balancing.More From Helios

Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-19-2005 10:24 AM

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okay, here is my take on this AND on FR3, which both allow you to get the hell outta dodge fast when things aren't going your way.

People have to make a lot of sacrifices in other areas in order to have skills like FR3, stasis and cloak. Yes, they do allow you to hit an Escape button that will get you out of the situation in most cases, but that comes at an extreme cost and is definitely able to be countered. Cloak, specificially, can be countered by staying within 20 meters of your target. Unforunately, with lag and whatnot sometimes that becomes very difficult.

However, if the Devs truely intend to reduce the ability of cloak to "get a Powers jedi out of a situation where the probably would have lost" then they need to start handing out more in the line of defenses to branches beyond defender.

Case in point: I was dueling a Jedi with the template MLS 4404 Enhancer 4000 healer 0040 defender and some other stuff last night. We where pretty evenly matched, but he kept complaining because I would get low on mind and Stasis him, run off a short distance and sit down to quickly regen mind. Now in these situations, I prob would have lost if I had not done so.

Eventually I agreed to duel him without using Stasis IF he would not use Force Arua (+500 melee / ranged D). This was by far the quickest and easiest of the duels for me to win.

Basically, my point here is that I gave up alot of Defense for my particular FR3/Stasis template. Jedi with cloak also have to make similar decisions. Cloak allows them to do somethings, but think of what they had to give up to get it. In its current state, having cloak is a viable alternative to other defenses. With the proposed current nerfs, it might very well be relegated to backseat status.

In conclusion, I find that cloak is an intresting and (formerly) unique Jedi skill that makes the game interesting and challenging to play. I just don't want them to nerf cloak and have everyone be forced into the same boring old cookie cutter template in order to be able to compete in the FRS.

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Tanilith wrote:

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Grunzer wrote:

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jultam wrote:

5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance)

I would like clarification on this as it pertains to forcecloak

here are some non-combat actions

ForceRun?

Forcespeed?

Channel?

logout?

---

HELIOS SAYS

"Force cloak is currently intended to be an alpha strike facilitator, not a "get oufa fight and regenerate free" card; nor was it intended to letme selectively bypass content. Force Run was designed to be a (more) balanced escape mechanism for Jedi. With the new hiding/stealth system, you can probably count on mostany action that would let you get backin the fight for free (after you would have probably lost) to breakstealth(including Force Cloak). That includes the abilities you asked about. As a general note, logging out/in whilst having a hiding/stealth buff on you (including cloak), removes that buff. If it looks like the fight is going southI tend to Burst/Force Run now."

Please keep in mind that everything is subject to more play testing and balancing.More From Helios

Message Edited by Grunzer on 09-19-2005 10:24 AM

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okay, here is my take on this AND on FR3, which both allow you to get the hell outta dodge fast when things aren't going your way.

People have to make a lot of sacrifices in other areas in order to have skills like FR3, stasis and cloak. Yes, they do allow you to hit an Escape button that will get you out of the situation in most cases, but that comes at an extreme cost and is definitely able to be countered. Cloak, specificially, can be countered by staying within 20 meters of your target. Unforunately, with lag and whatnot sometimes that becomes very difficult.

However, if the Devs truely intend to reduce the ability of cloak to "get a Powers jedi out of a situation where the probably would have lost" then they need to start handing out more in the line of defenses to branches beyond defender.

Case in point: I was dueling a Jedi with the template MLS 4404 Enhancer 4000 healer 0040 defender and some other stuff last night. We where pretty evenly matched, but he kept complaining because I would get low on mind and Stasis him, run off a short distance and sit down to quickly regen mind. Now in these situations, I prob would have lost if I had not done so.

Eventually I agreed to duel him without using Stasis IF he would not use Force Arua (+500 melee / ranged D). This was by far the quickest and easiest of the duels for me to win.

Basically, my point here is that I gave up alot of Defense for my particular FR3/Stasis template. Jedi with cloak also have to make similar decisions. Cloak allows them to do somethings, but think of what they had to give up to get it. In its current state, having cloak is a viable alternative to other defenses. With the proposed current nerfs, it might very well be relegated to backseat status.

In conclusion, I find that cloak is an intresting and (formerly) unique Jedi skill that makes the game interesting and challenging to play. I just don't want them to nerf cloak and have everyone be forced into the same boring old cookie cutter template in order to be able to compete in the FRS.

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I agree that defender never should have become it's own tree.. It's silly to think that an MLS user would then need to go and learn how to defend themselves. Since about 50-70% of LS training in the movies IS defense.

But what can you do? They did it to suck up more Skill points. Even though it is really unrealistic and doesn't add to the game at all.