Jedi Archive

Thread: An interesting parallel.

dubiousmastax
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:29 pm
#1

The ideological ties between George Lucas' Jedi, and the samurai of fuedal Japan are incredibly apparent. Both follow a code, or martial 'way', whether it is The Force, or budo. Sword are saber are the soul of these warriors, and to lose one is to lose your life. As Jedi all we need to do is to look towards the past to see where the future will take us.

During the height of fuedalism and shogunate rule, samurai were lords of their domain. Their incredible martial skill and cultural status effectively made them an alpha class. This power, like any ultimate power, was succeptible to corruption. The vast majority of samurai eventually becamse a mere shadow of their noble ancestry. Greed, and lust for ever increasing influence lead to a schism among their ranks. The Emperor of Japan, Meiji, declared the end of fuedalism and left the samurai with a simple choice. Convert or die. In his further desire to westernize, and become more modern, the emperor sold the soul of Japan. His catering to the trade demands of America left a very bad taste in the mouths of a few clans and rebellions erupted. Many daimyo and their armies rose to fight for their way of life, but this fight proved to be futile. The dollar was mightier than the sword. With the caste system destroyed, the warriors faded into society. Samurai chose new professions and were stripped of their topknots, and eventually their katana. Their soul.

The parallels are obvious. Revenge of the Sith is nothing more than a retelling of the Meiji Restoration. It resonates within many of us because it is a very human tale. As we know, human nature will never change and SOE/Lucasarts are the next to pick up the torch of folly. The SWG:NGE is once again Meiji rehashed. Jedi have been stripped. We are no longer mythical warriors of galactic history, we are former warriors looking for a purpose. As in post-fuedal Japan, the shame we have been dealt will be too great for many to handle and we will seppukku subscriptions en masse.

Our galaxy has been sold to the mindless in the name of "modernization" and those of us who won't swallow the disrespect, are left to die. History repeats itself yet again.
Epichistonian
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:33 pm
#2

That sounds oddly like The Last Samurai.



Sarshalus Groundwalker
Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute
Light a man on fire, he'll be warm
the rest of his life
dubiousmastax
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:35 pm
#3



Epichistonian wrote:
That sounds oddly like The Last Samurai.





yeah, the last samurai was a very hollywood telling of that story. but the major history points are more or less correct.
_Cicero_
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:35 pm
#4

Ochosi-
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:47 pm
#5

imodeled my self after a samurai style after i got this game. i started with the long hair and took swordsman up,witch was and still is the best prefession i ever played, so i became a jedi after 14 months of work to find that we became a dieing race of what was once a Alpha class . For those of us who stay please remember us jedi that are Pre NGE need to keep a apprence that we will not fall to the masses and, show the new jedi thay way of honor and heroisem.



I stand next to jedi that consider me brother,


i stand next to jedi's i consider brother's,


we will fight for our life,


we will be one,


We are jedi





-Ochosi Onovevia-
Master Jedi Elder
-None-Scylla-
"Stupidity Needs Not aReason"




sidsiegel
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:56 pm
#6

even though im not a religious nut , the star wars movies are a clear representation/recreation of the bible . the force is obviously god in which you must have faith .jesus like luke was a nobody that rose to greatness .i think jedi knights are more like medieval knights in which their sword was thier life and they lived by a warriors code ./shrug



XIZ
"you weenies"
SSA

WinkerPeeper
Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:58 pm
#7

If anything the Jedi are more like the Teutonic Knights of the 1400s.



Formerly Redyrd, MLS/MDEF/Heal 4XX4. Now L60 Shadowpriest.
-HadesBabe-
Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:10 pm
#8

Nope....even GL has said he modeled Jedi after the samurai. Even the clothing that Jedi wear is similar to that of the traditional samurai. The original sabre play of the OT was modeled after the way that samurai fought. The idea of a master and apprentice may have it's place in European history, the waythe master / Padawan relationshipis portrayed in the movies is more akin to the eastern method. GL was also a huge fan of Akira Kurosawa who made classics like Ran and The Seven Samurai, which influenced his writing of Star Wars.



WMeego The-MadW
Zabrak on Fire
Member of the LJO
Meego
Fiach
Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:23 pm
#9






dubiousmastax wrote:
The ideological ties between George Lucas' Jedi, and the samurai of fuedal Japan are incredibly apparent. Both follow a code, or martial 'way', whether it is The Force, or budo. Sword are saber are the soul of these warriors, and to lose one is to lose your life. As Jedi all we need to do is to look towards the past to see where the future will take us.

During the height of fuedalism and shogunate rule, samurai were lords of their domain. Their incredible martial skill and cultural status effectively made them an alpha class. This power, like any ultimate power, was succeptible to corruption. The vast majority of samurai eventually becamse a mere shadow of their noble ancestry. Greed, and lust for ever increasing influence lead to a schism among their ranks. The Emperor of Japan, Meiji, declared the end of fuedalism and left the samurai with a simple choice. Convert or die. In his further desire to westernize, and become more modern, the emperor sold the soul of Japan. His catering to the trade demands of America left a very bad taste in the mouths of a few clans and rebellions erupted. Many daimyo and their armies rose to fight for their way of life, but this fight proved to be futile. The dollar was mightier than the sword. With the caste system destroyed, the warriors faded into society. Samurai chose new professions and were stripped of their topknots, and eventually their katana. Their soul.

The parallels are obvious. Revenge of the Sith is nothing more than a retelling of the Meiji Restoration. It resonates within many of us because it is a very human tale. As we know, human nature will never change and SOE/Lucasarts are the next to pick up the torch of folly. The SWG:NGE is once again Meiji rehashed. Jedi have been stripped. We are no longer mythical warriors of galactic history, we are former warriors looking for a purpose. As in post-fuedal Japan, the shame we have been dealt will be too great for many to handle and we will seppukku subscriptions en masse.

Our galaxy has been sold to the mindless in the name of "modernization" and those of us who won't swallow the disrespect, are left to die. History repeats itself yet again.





I agree with you to a point. Your compairing Jedi to Samurai has some merit. They certainly shouldn't be called Knight's as they have nothing in common with the Knight's of Europe. Most European Knight's were lord's or higher, infact all knight's were nobility as to be a Knight you were a Sir at minimum, a noble title. Knight's acted on initiative and were very headstrong and autonomous. Jedi are more like Samurai as they obey the orders of a council which could be considered there Lord. Samurai means "To serve"the Jedi are the same. As soon asa Jedi begins to act on initiative they are censured by the council.


That being said I think you comparing the fall of the Samurai to the nerfing of jedi in SWG a bit over the top.


Ryngs
Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:25 pm
#10






sidsiegel wrote:

even though im not a religious nut , the star wars movies are a clear representation/recreation of the bible . the force is obviously god in which you must have faith .jesus like luke was a nobody that rose to greatness .i think jedi knights are more like medieval knights in which their sword was thier life and they lived by a warriors code ./shrug






I would say you are pretty close to the original intention but I will go into a little more detail. I would say, and many philosophers and theologians would probably agree,This is a retelling of the biblical apocalypse (but of course it is incomplete as it stands). Ultimately the battle is between good and evil. This good and evil is NOT the Jedi and Sith; it is the Force and the darkside of the Force. The jedi are people acting under the influence of the good (God)and vice versa for the sith (just plain evil I don't think the christian idea of the devil is really what was intended from the bible). The fall of the jedi represents the people's fall away from God (just read the old testament and you will get your fill of doom and gloom for falling away from God). The two Sith represent the deciever. The deciever wins people over through temptations to greed and lust. Then a messiah is born to reeducate the people in the ways of God, but first he must triumph over the deciever.


I also think that Lucas borrows heavily from other theosophical ideas. Instead of a God and Devil he uses 2 forces. The first force is a cosmic force that attempts to bind all. The second is an anti-cosmic force that seeks to tear apart.


As for the archetypes for the Jedi themselves they are probably representative of the mythical crusaders for the holy grail.


P.S. I am atheist...I just read too much hehe




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Ryngs Scefing
SGO
Nótt Skal Nema Nyræða TíL
Fiach
Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:33 pm
#11






Ryngs wrote:





sidsiegel wrote:

even though im not a religious nut , the star wars movies are a clear representation/recreation of the bible . the force is obviously god in which you must have faith .jesus like luke was a nobody that rose to greatness .i think jedi knights are more like medieval knights in which their sword was thier life and they lived by a warriors code ./shrug






I would say you are pretty close to the original intention but I will go into a little more detail. I would say, and many philosophers and theologians would probably agree,This is a retelling of the biblical apocalypse (but of course it is incomplete as it stands). Ultimately the battle is between good and evil. This good and evil is NOT the Jedi and Sith; it is the Force and the darkside of the Force. The jedi are people acting under the influence of the good (God)and vice versa for the sith (just plain evil I don't think the christian idea of the devil is really what was intended from the bible). The fall of the jedi represents the people's fall away from God (just read the old testament and you will get your fill of doom and gloom for falling away from God). The two Sith represent the deciever. The deciever wins people over through temptations to greed and lust. Then a messiah is born to reeducate the people in the ways of God, but first he must triumph over the deciever.


I also think that Lucas borrows heavily from other theosophical ideas. Instead of a God and Devil he uses 2 forces. The first force is a cosmic force that attempts to bind all. The second is an anti-cosmic force that seeks to tear apart.


As for the archetypes for the Jedi themselves they are probably representative of the mythical crusaders for the holy grail.


P.S. I am atheist...I just read too much hehe







I have to disagree with this. If anything I would have thought the force taps into a more pre-christian pantheistic view. Mono-theistic views don't fit well in this case. The Jedi and Sith are more like gods. This is played out in the fact that the force dictates there actions not allowing them to live normal lives. In the case of the European God Wotan (Wodin, Odin) he realised that as he grew in power he had less and less control over his own fate. And the final conflict between the Jedi and Sith has parralels to Gotterdamarung (spelling?) The twighlight of the Gods.


Food for thought.


WarriorCode
Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:54 pm
#12


LOL I concur with the origional post. Very cool historic tie-in. During my time in the game, I attempted to play in a budo style (pre-power mongering for historical reference)


Why else would my Station Name be WarriorCode???


Message Edited by WarriorCode on 11-10-2005 09:55 PM



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Ryngs
Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:00 pm
#13






Fiach wrote:





Ryngs wrote:





sidsiegel wrote:

even though im not a religious nut , the star wars movies are a clear representation/recreation of the bible . the force is obviously god in which you must have faith .jesus like luke was a nobody that rose to greatness .i think jedi knights are more like medieval knights in which their sword was thier life and they lived by a warriors code ./shrug






I would say you are pretty close to the original intention but I will go into a little more detail. I would say, and many philosophers and theologians would probably agree,This is a retelling of the biblical apocalypse (but of course it is incomplete as it stands). Ultimately the battle is between good and evil. This good and evil is NOT the Jedi and Sith; it is the Force and the darkside of the Force. The jedi are people acting under the influence of the good (God)and vice versa for the sith (just plain evil I don't think the christian idea of the devil is really what was intended from the bible). The fall of the jedi represents the people's fall away from God (just read the old testament and you will get your fill of doom and gloom for falling away from God). The two Sith represent the deciever. The deciever wins people over through temptations to greed and lust. Then a messiah is born to reeducate the people in the ways of God, but first he must triumph over the deciever.


I also think that Lucas borrows heavily from other theosophical ideas. Instead of a God and Devil he uses 2 forces. The first force is a cosmic force that attempts to bind all. The second is an anti-cosmic force that seeks to tear apart.


As for the archetypes for the Jedi themselves they are probably representative of the mythical crusaders for the holy grail.


P.S. I am atheist...I just read too much hehe







I have to disagree with this. If anything I would have thought the force taps into a more pre-christian pantheistic view. Mono-theistic views don't fit well in this case. The Jedi and Sith are more like gods. This is played out in the fact that the force dictates there actions not allowing them to live normal lives. In the case of the European God Wotan (Wodin, Odin) he realised that as he grew in power he had less and less control over his own fate. And the final conflict between the Jedi and Sith has parralels to Gotterdamarung (spelling?) The twighlight of the Gods.


Food for thought.








I am only attributing the story to the bible nothing more. The theistic views pretty much run the gamot from eastern religion to neo-paganism.


After chewing on this food for thought I don't really see any parallels withGermanic religion (which is something i am VERY familiar with..notice old norse proverb in sig). The only parallel i see is the whole hand chopping off thing (ie. The Shining God putting his hand in ).


The Gotterdammerung (Old Icelandic Ragnarok as it is more commonly known) is a little backward in comparison to the Star Wars movies. During Ragnarok, after 3 years of winter, when the moon rises red it will be swallowed by the wolf. The gods then do battle with the jotuns and the inhabitants of Hel who cross the veil in a ship,whose name is Naglfar. Pretty muchall the Aesir(Othinn, Thor etc) and the Vana (freyr) who accompany them die and are avenged by their sons (hmm could be a parallel but a stretch). During the battle the 9 worlds will be burned. After the death of Jormungandr the seas will become calm and a new world will rise. This new world is paradise and the circle begins again. In this very brief synopsis i don't really see any parallels.


As this is really a discussion of philosophy there are probably no right answers and i am now curious as to your interpretations of Ragnarok and it's parallels.



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Ryngs Scefing
SGO
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