Jedi Archive
Thread: [Poll] What are the Top 3 issues for each Jedi Profession?
Well that was fun. There's no need to launch into a tirade just because you disagree. If you think LS damage needs to be reimplemented try explaining why 3 hit kills foster a positive and fair gameplay experience. If you just want to rant about how people thatdon't like3 hit kills suck at PvP, why bother responding?
Grunzer wrote:
Ahem. Have you seen the new BH uber weapon? 6xx minimum damage and 1250 max damage energy? Unsliced. Unpupped. 89 SAC.
You're taking this from what? The screenies you've seen from TC? When have the numbers on the Blue Frog weapons ever translated to live? Those numbers are above the current damage cap, and as such I doubt they'll hit live.
Pre-CU sabers aren't special anymore. Just about every single profession out there has a Harder hitting, faster, lower SAC weapon than Jedi do now. PRE-CU OR POST-CU.
With the constant nerfs the Jedi profession is on the fast-track to being the WEAKEST profession in the game. The whole 1.5 times stronger B.S. has gone out the window already.
You don't think maybe you're being a weee bit alarmist here? The weakest profession in the game? Come on now. Jedi can have high damage output, stellar defense, and good healing all in one template(MLS/Mdef/Healer 4000) No other normal template can do that. Every other prof must trade those off to balance their template. So you're sayingJedi should have all those things, and easy access to weapons that also do as much, if not more damage than the nuker class templates?
The coming nerfs are going to equal a death sentence for all MELEE professions, but especially Jedi.
Maybe, but for some reason I don't see those changes making live in their present state either. And jedi may be a primarily melee profession, but again, it's the only melee profession that gets a ranged attack and access to a root as well.
Let's not even mention the fact that as a normal profession, you can spend 4-5 million and get a super-uber weapon (less on some servers, if you look for the deals.) While we spend 30-50 million and still aren't guaranteed a nice weapon.
Hmmm..I didn't pay a dime for my uber-weapons, or my saber. Looted it all myself, wasn't that hard to do. Sure tuning pearls is a pain, and I'd love to see that system revamped. But I don't see anyone arguing that point.
We don't get armor break reduction. Master Defenders can't reduce their armor break, but a BH who can do missions for a few hours can have his entire suit of armor fixed up with a 75% armor break reduction. (And yeah, I was a BH, so don't even try to tell me it takes days to get the plating to do it. I've got 52 micro-plating pieces sitting in my house. I know better.)
Actually it's the shock absorbant padding that's a pain to get, but that's beside the point. So you can be hit with armor break, not really a big deal against a BH. There arevery few swordsmen BHs running around,and given that BH has no melee modifiers that's a long hard road just to have acess to armor break. Jedi get access to armor break, BHs get access to armor break reduction. BHs kite well, Jedi have access to ranged kd's, roots, and snares. Balance.
Beyond all that, you were a freaking RIFLEMAN, you shouldn't even be getting close enough to get hit with a saber.
Asking for nerfs because you SUCK at PVP is what has turned this game into a pile of dog crap.
And Jedi wonder why they have a bad reputation amongst normal profs. So because I was a rifleman/ch that could be killed in 3 hits I suck at PvP? Actually, you're right, I did. But for some reason I have a feeling if you could be 3hit killed by a swordsman you'd be the first to cry for a nerf. Because you know what, being killed in 3 hits by anyone ruins PvP. That's the point of balancing a game. My point of listing my professions was to illustrate that a normal non-defense stacked, non-cm template was useless in PvP pre-cu. Why? Because LS damage was too dominant. This was remedied, and it needs to stay that way.
Message Edited by Grunzer on 10-13-2005 12:40 AM
Penguinzx wrote:
3 hit kills foster a positive and fair gameplay experience.
Grunzer wrote:
Ahem. Have you seen the new BH uber weapon? 6xx minimum damage and 1250 max damage energy? Unsliced. Unpupped. 89 SAC.
You're taking this from what? The screenies you've seen from TC? When have the numbers on the Blue Frog weapons ever translated to live? Those numbers are above the current damage cap, and as such I doubt they'll hit live. --
Quest weapon. And to think it won't make it to live is just silly when there are HLC's that are doing close to that damage now.
Pre-CU sabers aren't special anymore. Just about every single profession out there has a Harder hitting, faster, lower SAC weapon than Jedi do now. PRE-CU OR POST-CU.
With the constant nerfs the Jedi profession is on the fast-track to being the WEAKEST profession in the game. The whole 1.5 times stronger B.S. has gone out the window already.
You don't think maybe you're being a weee bit alarmist here? The weakest profession in the game? Come on now. Jedi can have high damage output, stellar defense, and good healing all in one template(MLS/Mdef/Healer 4000) No other normal template can do that. Every other prof must trade those off to balance their template. So you're sayingJedi should have all those things, and easy access to weapons that also do as much, if not more damage than the nuker class templates?
A TKM Gets Damage, some of the best defenses in the game. Can AB. And can then go on to get another complete profession, with healing.
The coming nerfs are going to equal a death sentence for all MELEE professions, but especially Jedi.
Maybe, but for some reason I don't see those changes making live in their present state either. And jedi may be a primarily melee profession, but again, it's the only melee profession that gets a ranged attack and access to a root as well.
I really hope not, but look at everything that the developers let go live. Defenses are based on the weapon we hold, not the weapon that is being used against us, this went live and has been in the game for months now. If you're melee, ranged defense is useless and Vice Versa. The developers have shown that they will let their buggy, messed up code go into the game and then spend 6 months talking about how "tricky" it is to fix it, or just flat out tell us it's "not a priority".
Let's not even mention the fact that as a normal profession, you can spend 4-5 million and get a super-uber weapon (less on some servers, if you look for the deals.) While we spend 30-50 million and still aren't guaranteed a nice weapon.
Hmmm..I didn't pay a dime for my uber-weapons, or my saber. Looted it all myself, wasn't that hard to do. Sure tuning pearls is a pain, and I'd love to see that system revamped. But I don't see anyone arguing that point.
It's good that you have a master weaponsmith for a friend. It's good that you spent so many hundreds of hours hunting krayts for good pearls. Kudos to you. But the fact is, I can go buy a weapon that's much better than what an MLS user has, and it takes me 5 minutes.
We don't get armor break reduction. Master Defenders can't reduce their armor break, but a BH who can do missions for a few hours can have his entire suit of armor fixed up with a 75% armor break reduction. (And yeah, I was a BH, so don't even try to tell me it takes days to get the plating to do it. I've got 52 micro-plating pieces sitting in my house. I know better.)
Actually it's the shock absorbant padding that's a pain to get, but that's beside the point. So you can be hit with armor break, not really a big deal against a BH. There arevery few swordsmen BHs running around,and given that BH has no melee modifiers that's a long hard road just to have acess to armor break. Jedi get access to armor break, BHs get access to armor break reduction. BHs kite well, Jedi have access to ranged kd's, roots, and snares. Balance.
Electrolyte Drain lasts for 2 minutes. What other snare in the game lasts that long? How is this balance? Take that by itself and it's a huge advantage, add the coming Debuffs and it's a death sentence.
Beyond all that, you were a freaking RIFLEMAN, you shouldn't even be getting close enough to get hit with a saber.
Asking for nerfs because you SUCK at PVP is what has turned this game into a pile of dog crap.
And Jedi wonder why they have a bad reputation amongst normal profs. So because I was a rifleman/ch that could be killed in 3 hits I suck at PvP? Actually, you're right, I did. But for some reason I have a feeling if you could be 3hit killed by a swordsman you'd be the first to cry for a nerf. Because you know what, being killed in 3 hits by anyone ruins PvP. That's the point of balancing a game. My point of listing my professions was to illustrate that a normal non-defense stacked, non-cm template was useless in PvP pre-cu. Why? Because LS damage was too dominant. This was remedied, and it needs to stay that way.
I was a BH for 2 years. Back when Rifleman 1 shot killed people constantly. Back when Droids were borked, back when it took hundreds of hours to become MBH because of the tiny miniscule XP you got for the Investigation line.
I've been a Jedi for 3 weeks. I'm a BH first. Not a Jedi. And I know ranged weapons much better than I do melee weapons. I know what BH's will be capable of with the game-code changes, and it is extremely unbalanced to say the least. I choose not to call it game-breaking because there are really so MANY game breaking BUGS in this game already, I wouldn't want to belittle these changes by simply calling them "game breaking."
LS damage needs a boost, plain and simple. As Jedi, we have NO choices when it comes to damage dealing, because both damage dealing professions are bugged and nerfed to Hell. Other professions get a choice. TKM's have the Katarn Knucklers, they can also go pikeman and be uber-tanks. BH's can pick up rifleman, carbine, pistoleer, MCM, Doc, etc.
Jedi have borked powers and borked lightsaber skills. If you think that's balance then there's no point in discussing this further with you because you're not being logical, you're just being a fool.
Pre-Cu Sabers that are currently in the game are not capable of 3 hit kills. Rifleman weapons and skills come closest to putting their targets down in 3 hits than any other profession. ANY OTHER PROFFESSION! And you were one, so either you know this and are trying to play that knowledge down, or you were an extremely bad rifleman.
So which is it?
some good points there, but you need to rework your LS points a bit for the folowing reasons:
Opie76 wrote:
LS
- 1. Master box needs some loving. - Dervish and advanced saber throw as well as some mods do not justify 3.2M. Remember the nerfed Dervish already. Advanced saber throw is one of the most powerfull attacks in the game. Not only does it go against the balance points about having 1 attack that does BOTH a good state AND very good damage, it also enables a melee profession to use a ranged attack (and being better at it than the ranged proffesion, powers)
- 2. Speed bug needs to be fixed. Modded saber speed is already working
- 3. Premium/Flawless Pearls need to be implemented in a non farmable system. Possibly a replayable quest that takes days to complete.
Message Edited by Opie76 on 10-12-2005 10:17 PM
Penguinzx wrote:
GeckoFighter wrote:2) I go hunting with the MLS/Mdef's from my guild rather frequently, and I don't know any other prof that can just stand in front of a giant canyon krayt and swing away.
Haven't been out with a M Pike/TKM/CM 4xxx have you? Or how about a TKM/M Doc With dabbles in swordsman and pike? I'm full template Jedi, and not a tank by any means. I lead grind groups on my server, and have started looking for Melee/Doc profs to be the tank in my group over a MDef or Def dabbler as they don't have to regen their force between lairs.
Grunzer wrote:
Penguinzx wrote:
3 hit kills foster a positive and fair gameplay experience.
Grunzer wrote:
Ahem. Have you seen the new BH uber weapon? 6xx minimum damage and 1250 max damage energy? Unsliced. Unpupped. 89 SAC.
You're taking this from what? The screenies you've seen from TC? When have the numbers on the Blue Frog weapons ever translated to live? Those numbers are above the current damage cap, and as such I doubt they'll hit live. --
Quest weapon. And to think it won't make it to live is just silly when there are HLC's that are doing close to that damage now.
Pre-CU sabers aren't special anymore. Just about every single profession out there has a Harder hitting, faster, lower SAC weapon than Jedi do now. PRE-CU OR POST-CU.
With the constant nerfs the Jedi profession is on the fast-track to being the WEAKEST profession in the game. The whole 1.5 times stronger B.S. has gone out the window already.
You don't think maybe you're being a weee bit alarmist here? The weakest profession in the game? Come on now. Jedi can have high damage output, stellar defense, and good healing all in one template(MLS/Mdef/Healer 4000) No other normal template can do that. Every other prof must trade those off to balance their template. So you're sayingJedi should have all those things, and easy access to weapons that also do as much, if not more damage than the nuker class templates?
A TKM Gets Damage, some of the best defenses in the game. Can AB. And can then go on to get another complete profession, with healing.
The coming nerfs are going to equal a death sentence for all MELEE professions, but especially Jedi.
Maybe, but for some reason I don't see those changes making live in their present state either. And jedi may be a primarily melee profession, but again, it's the only melee profession that gets a ranged attack and access to a root as well.
I really hope not, but look at everything that the developers let go live. Defenses are based on the weapon we hold, not the weapon that is being used against us, this went live and has been in the game for months now. If you're melee, ranged defense is useless and Vice Versa. The developers have shown that they will let their buggy, messed up code go into the game and then spend 6 months talking about how "tricky" it is to fix it, or just flat out tell us it's "not a priority".
Let's not even mention the fact that as a normal profession, you can spend 4-5 million and get a super-uber weapon (less on some servers, if you look for the deals.) While we spend 30-50 million and still aren't guaranteed a nice weapon.
Hmmm..I didn't pay a dime for my uber-weapons, or my saber. Looted it all myself, wasn't that hard to do. Sure tuning pearls is a pain, and I'd love to see that system revamped. But I don't see anyone arguing that point.
It's good that you have a master weaponsmith for a friend. It's good that you spent so many hundreds of hours hunting krayts for good pearls. Kudos to you. But the fact is, I can go buy a weapon that's much better than what an MLS user has, and it takes me 5 minutes.
We don't get armor break reduction. Master Defenders can't reduce their armor break, but a BH who can do missions for a few hours can have his entire suit of armor fixed up with a 75% armor break reduction. (And yeah, I was a BH, so don't even try to tell me it takes days to get the plating to do it. I've got 52 micro-plating pieces sitting in my house. I know better.)
Actually it's the shock absorbant padding that's a pain to get, but that's beside the point. So you can be hit with armor break, not really a big deal against a BH. There arevery few swordsmen BHs running around,and given that BH has no melee modifiers that's a long hard road just to have acess to armor break. Jedi get access to armor break, BHs get access to armor break reduction. BHs kite well, Jedi have access to ranged kd's, roots, and snares. Balance.
Electrolyte Drain lasts for 2 minutes. What other snare in the game lasts that long? How is this balance? Take that by itself and it's a huge advantage, add the coming Debuffs and it's a death sentence.
Beyond all that, you were a freaking RIFLEMAN, you shouldn't even be getting close enough to get hit with a saber.
Asking for nerfs because you SUCK at PVP is what has turned this game into a pile of dog crap.
And Jedi wonder why they have a bad reputation amongst normal profs. So because I was a rifleman/ch that could be killed in 3 hits I suck at PvP? Actually, you're right, I did. But for some reason I have a feeling if you could be 3hit killed by a swordsman you'd be the first to cry for a nerf. Because you know what, being killed in 3 hits by anyone ruins PvP. That's the point of balancing a game. My point of listing my professions was to illustrate that a normal non-defense stacked, non-cm template was useless in PvP pre-cu. Why? Because LS damage was too dominant. This was remedied, and it needs to stay that way.
I was a BH for 2 years. Back when Rifleman 1 shot killed people constantly. Back when Droids were borked, back when it took hundreds of hours to become MBH because of the tiny miniscule XP you got for the Investigation line.
I've been a Jedi for 3 weeks. I'm a BH first. Not a Jedi. And I know ranged weapons much better than I do melee weapons. I know what BH's will be capable of with the game-code changes, and it is extremely unbalanced to say the least. I choose not to call it game-breaking because there are really so MANY game breaking BUGS in this game already, I wouldn't want to belittle these changes by simply calling them "game breaking."
LS damage needs a boost, plain and simple. As Jedi, we have NO choices when it comes to damage dealing, because both damage dealing professions are bugged and nerfed to Hell. Other professions get a choice. TKM's have the Katarn Knucklers, they can also go pikeman and be uber-tanks. BH's can pick up rifleman, carbine, pistoleer, MCM, Doc, etc.
Jedi have borked powers and borked lightsaber skills. If you think that's balance then there's no point in discussing this further with you because you're not being logical, you're just being a fool.
Pre-Cu Sabers that are currently in the game are not capable of 3 hit kills. Rifleman weapons and skills come closest to putting their targets down in 3 hits than any other profession. ANY OTHER PROFFESSION! And you were one, so either you know this and are trying to play that knowledge down, or you were an extremely bad rifleman.
So which is it?
QFE
1) Up dervish's damage slightly. For a master special its too costly for real use.
2) +25 block at MLS is still stupidly low add another +10 in the master box.
Enhancer
1) Resists line needs upping in bonus made to work or removed and replaced.
2) Force run 1 need to be separated from 2/3
3) Meditate needs to be upped in regen rate to be made useful.
Powers
1) Damage increased on nearly all specials or create a base level damage which is enhanced through your saber stats.
2) Ability for powers to bypass defences such as shield/feedback/absorb/force defence either through introduction of a new move or maybe utilise weaken to make jedi more susceptible.
3) Removal of zip bars for moves and addition of single target variants of KD/Intim.
Healer
1) Heal states currently useless as states dont work. Heal poison and disease need to be a 1 use cure with a longer reuse timer.
2) Master healer, introduce some kind of force healing efficiency mod so masters get faster and more powerful heals.
3) Make heal other less force intensive, currently Mhealer as a group support is alot worse than Mdoc or MCM due to force being a restraint. Costs for self should be the same but for healing others it should cost less.
Defender
1) New AI loseing agro change removes the main benefit of defender as a tank. Snared and massive fc on this move already limits its use severly.
2) Issues in the general system with melee/ranged def if they dont work properly then there are wasted trees.
