Jedi Archive
Thread: A letter that sums up my feelings about this update
Page 1 of 2
Beast9156
Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:51 pm
#1
This was Posted on the flurry forums by Kandee.
I saw this and i have to saw it is a summary of how i feel and i think many people are feeling so i wanted to share with you:
To the Developers,
While I cannot claim that I speak on behalf of the entire community, I do believe that my comments here will reflect much of what most of the veterans of this game feel at the release of the upcoming "game enchancements" information today.
To start off, for those who don't know me, I am a veteran SWG player. I tracked the game prior to release, and pre-ordered the Collector's Edition on the first day. I have played this game since day one. I own three accounts, all of which I have leveled myself. One is a Jedi, the others are non-Jedi characters. Two of those accounts are currently active (for the time being). I served as the Scout Correspondent from July 2003 until February of 2005, being the second longest serving Correspondent in the game. I attended the first Fan-fest in Anaheim (I live in Washington, DC) and I attended the Correspondent Summit in Austin, where I met Julio, Tiggs, and reintroduced myself to many of the rest of the design team that I had met at Fan-fest, including Thunderheart, Keldarin, GreenMarine (no longer with SOE) and many others. I alpha tested Jump-to-Lightspeed, and beta tested Rage of the Wookies and the Trials of Obi-Wan. I do believe that all of these experiences lend significant emphasis and credability to the opinions I want to express here.
I have reviewed the FAQ, as well as Julio's letter to the community. While it took a while to understand the magnitude of what is happening here, I have come to grips with it.
These game changes, in my opinion, represent a serious breach of trust with the community and fail to take into account the efforts that the veterans of this community have made in the game.
It is a slap in the face to announce these changes - changes which may take effect within three weeks or less to the game - ONE DAY after a new expansion that many of us have purchased copies of, some multiple copies of, was released. The dust has not even settled on The Trials of Obi-Wan, and now we are being presented with changes that will completely change the way the game looks, feels and is played. In my mind, this is little better than a virtual bait-and-switch perpetrated on the entire community.
I am well aware of the development process, thanks to my work as a Correspondent. I know that these changes must have been in the pipeline for months, particularly if all of the coding will be completed in less than one months time. The Combat Balance/Upgrade/Revamp that I assisted with and helped to shape in Austin at the Summit and throughout the process took over a year and half to develop, code and complete. Yet this entire process was done in secret, including all of the PR preparations made by Tiggs and the SOE Community Relations staff, and sprung on the community without an inkling two days after the expansion was released.
In real life, I'm a lobbyist, and I've been working in Washington for 10 years. So I've seen a lot of conspiracy theories come and go. And If I were a cynic, I would say that this was a carefully timed announcement, designed to hit the community right after the expansion was released, so that SOE and LEC could have gotten the money for the expansion from as many veterans as possible, hoping that that capital would keep the game going through the massive wave of cancellations from those same veterans when changes of this magnitude were announced. And once all the veterans are gone, marketing could focus on bringing new players to the game, who had no knowledge of the previous two years and wouldn't have a problem with what you've done here. I hope to God that that's just the anger talking here, because if any part of what I've said is just true, it would represent the biggest rip-off of an entire gaming community in the history of the gaming industry.
I feel cheated and ripped off. And I think I speak for a large portion of the community when I say that.
And this is how I feel strictly based on the timing of the announcement. The actual changes you are proposing are worse.
Changes of this magnitude, less than 6 months after changes of a similiar magnitude, make it hard for me to accept that this game will still be Star Wars Galaxies. If anything, these game enchancements seem to be attempting to turn SWG into some kind of amalgamation of World of Warcraft, Planetside and Knights of the Old Republic. This isn't why I play SWG, and isn't why I've stuck with this game for two years.
And while I recognize that we veterans will receive "elder" buffs and status in the game, that's not enough. How do you begin to repay someone for the hundreds and thousands of hours they've spent playing this game, building up credits, skills, guilds, equipment, etc. and then wiping away everything they've accomplished in less than a month? I can't tell you the number of days I've taken off work to play SWG, or ignored a deadline or got an extension on a project just to stay out a bit later in a great XP group. All of that is for naught - you are invalidating most of what I've accomplished in the game in two years and in return, I get a special buff. That's not enough.
Rangers were promised a complete revamp less than a month ago, with outlines and changes that got many of them excited about the game again. Now, Rangers have been removed. The profession that I advocated on behalf of for nearly two years, Scout, is gone. The hours and hours I spent writing and rewriting guides for the community on the profession are now worthless.
And worse than the fact that the changes can't begin to compensate for what I'm losing, you're destroying what has kept most people in this game as long as we've been here - the community.
And its already happening. I recently cancelled my World of Warcraft account (even after the news of their new expansion) to come back to SWG full time, and one of the main reasons I cited was the community. My guild on Bloodfin, which is comprised of approximately 60 players with probably close 150 accounts all-together has almost fallen apart IN THE SPAN OF FIVE HOURS. Just looking through my ventrilo, I see people with comments of "5 accounts cancelled", "3 accounts cancelled", "Anybody want to buy 100 mill credits", "3 Jedi for sale cheap, will take food for trade". These are all veteran gamers, guild leaders, beta testers, the kinds of players that MMO designers listen to and make games specifically for - and they're all unhappy. Not a single person I've spoken to is happy right now.
This entire process is fatally flawed. It's flawed because there have been consistent promises made to this community by the Community Relations staff that major changes to the game would be discussed in the community and that we would have some kind of say over them. There's a reason why there are "In Dev", "In Testing" and "In Concept" forums on these boards. But they weren't used here.
Do you even understand the magnitude of what you're doing? If you don't right now, you will when you get the metrics back on how many accounts were cancelled today.
Stop this process now. Get community feedback. Ignore the focus groups and the exit polls and LISTEN to your community. Focus groups and polling is all well and good - I use it myself. But nothing beats getting out in and amongst the actual people who play this game and hearing what they think about this. Make these changes gradual. Do them a little at a time, so that people can get used to them and integrate them into their playstyle. The game was made in a day, it doesn't need to be remade in a day.
Better yet, don't go forward with the changes at all - save them for Star Wars Galaxies II - The Search for More Money. (I hope you all get the reference).
For the sake of all of us who have put so much into this game, and even for those players who simply log in once in a while, kill a few stormtroopers but pay their $15 a month for it, reconsider these changes and allow the community a chance to respond and contribute to the process.
This is our game. It is our money and it is our free time. Respect us. Give us the opportunity to affect this process in a meaningful, cooperative way. It is the very least that we have earned through our dedication and loyalty to this game.
BRISC RUBAL
While I cannot claim that I speak on behalf of the entire community, I do believe that my comments here will reflect much of what most of the veterans of this game feel at the release of the upcoming "game enchancements" information today.
To start off, for those who don't know me, I am a veteran SWG player. I tracked the game prior to release, and pre-ordered the Collector's Edition on the first day. I have played this game since day one. I own three accounts, all of which I have leveled myself. One is a Jedi, the others are non-Jedi characters. Two of those accounts are currently active (for the time being). I served as the Scout Correspondent from July 2003 until February of 2005, being the second longest serving Correspondent in the game. I attended the first Fan-fest in Anaheim (I live in Washington, DC) and I attended the Correspondent Summit in Austin, where I met Julio, Tiggs, and reintroduced myself to many of the rest of the design team that I had met at Fan-fest, including Thunderheart, Keldarin, GreenMarine (no longer with SOE) and many others. I alpha tested Jump-to-Lightspeed, and beta tested Rage of the Wookies and the Trials of Obi-Wan. I do believe that all of these experiences lend significant emphasis and credability to the opinions I want to express here.
I have reviewed the FAQ, as well as Julio's letter to the community. While it took a while to understand the magnitude of what is happening here, I have come to grips with it.
These game changes, in my opinion, represent a serious breach of trust with the community and fail to take into account the efforts that the veterans of this community have made in the game.
It is a slap in the face to announce these changes - changes which may take effect within three weeks or less to the game - ONE DAY after a new expansion that many of us have purchased copies of, some multiple copies of, was released. The dust has not even settled on The Trials of Obi-Wan, and now we are being presented with changes that will completely change the way the game looks, feels and is played. In my mind, this is little better than a virtual bait-and-switch perpetrated on the entire community.
I am well aware of the development process, thanks to my work as a Correspondent. I know that these changes must have been in the pipeline for months, particularly if all of the coding will be completed in less than one months time. The Combat Balance/Upgrade/Revamp that I assisted with and helped to shape in Austin at the Summit and throughout the process took over a year and half to develop, code and complete. Yet this entire process was done in secret, including all of the PR preparations made by Tiggs and the SOE Community Relations staff, and sprung on the community without an inkling two days after the expansion was released.
In real life, I'm a lobbyist, and I've been working in Washington for 10 years. So I've seen a lot of conspiracy theories come and go. And If I were a cynic, I would say that this was a carefully timed announcement, designed to hit the community right after the expansion was released, so that SOE and LEC could have gotten the money for the expansion from as many veterans as possible, hoping that that capital would keep the game going through the massive wave of cancellations from those same veterans when changes of this magnitude were announced. And once all the veterans are gone, marketing could focus on bringing new players to the game, who had no knowledge of the previous two years and wouldn't have a problem with what you've done here. I hope to God that that's just the anger talking here, because if any part of what I've said is just true, it would represent the biggest rip-off of an entire gaming community in the history of the gaming industry.
I feel cheated and ripped off. And I think I speak for a large portion of the community when I say that.
And this is how I feel strictly based on the timing of the announcement. The actual changes you are proposing are worse.
Changes of this magnitude, less than 6 months after changes of a similiar magnitude, make it hard for me to accept that this game will still be Star Wars Galaxies. If anything, these game enchancements seem to be attempting to turn SWG into some kind of amalgamation of World of Warcraft, Planetside and Knights of the Old Republic. This isn't why I play SWG, and isn't why I've stuck with this game for two years.
And while I recognize that we veterans will receive "elder" buffs and status in the game, that's not enough. How do you begin to repay someone for the hundreds and thousands of hours they've spent playing this game, building up credits, skills, guilds, equipment, etc. and then wiping away everything they've accomplished in less than a month? I can't tell you the number of days I've taken off work to play SWG, or ignored a deadline or got an extension on a project just to stay out a bit later in a great XP group. All of that is for naught - you are invalidating most of what I've accomplished in the game in two years and in return, I get a special buff. That's not enough.
Rangers were promised a complete revamp less than a month ago, with outlines and changes that got many of them excited about the game again. Now, Rangers have been removed. The profession that I advocated on behalf of for nearly two years, Scout, is gone. The hours and hours I spent writing and rewriting guides for the community on the profession are now worthless.
And worse than the fact that the changes can't begin to compensate for what I'm losing, you're destroying what has kept most people in this game as long as we've been here - the community.
And its already happening. I recently cancelled my World of Warcraft account (even after the news of their new expansion) to come back to SWG full time, and one of the main reasons I cited was the community. My guild on Bloodfin, which is comprised of approximately 60 players with probably close 150 accounts all-together has almost fallen apart IN THE SPAN OF FIVE HOURS. Just looking through my ventrilo, I see people with comments of "5 accounts cancelled", "3 accounts cancelled", "Anybody want to buy 100 mill credits", "3 Jedi for sale cheap, will take food for trade". These are all veteran gamers, guild leaders, beta testers, the kinds of players that MMO designers listen to and make games specifically for - and they're all unhappy. Not a single person I've spoken to is happy right now.
This entire process is fatally flawed. It's flawed because there have been consistent promises made to this community by the Community Relations staff that major changes to the game would be discussed in the community and that we would have some kind of say over them. There's a reason why there are "In Dev", "In Testing" and "In Concept" forums on these boards. But they weren't used here.
Do you even understand the magnitude of what you're doing? If you don't right now, you will when you get the metrics back on how many accounts were cancelled today.
Stop this process now. Get community feedback. Ignore the focus groups and the exit polls and LISTEN to your community. Focus groups and polling is all well and good - I use it myself. But nothing beats getting out in and amongst the actual people who play this game and hearing what they think about this. Make these changes gradual. Do them a little at a time, so that people can get used to them and integrate them into their playstyle. The game was made in a day, it doesn't need to be remade in a day.
Better yet, don't go forward with the changes at all - save them for Star Wars Galaxies II - The Search for More Money. (I hope you all get the reference).
For the sake of all of us who have put so much into this game, and even for those players who simply log in once in a while, kill a few stormtroopers but pay their $15 a month for it, reconsider these changes and allow the community a chance to respond and contribute to the process.
This is our game. It is our money and it is our free time. Respect us. Give us the opportunity to affect this process in a meaningful, cooperative way. It is the very least that we have earned through our dedication and loyalty to this game.
BRISC RUBAL
If money is all you love, then that's what you'll receive.
-Acu-
Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:53 pm
#2
no they wont cuz alot of people will quit
Beast9156 wrote:
This was Posted on the flurry forums by Kandee.
I saw this and i have to saw it is a summary of how i feel and i think many people are feeling so i wanted to share with you:
To the Developers,
While I cannot claim that I speak on behalf of the entire community, I do believe that my comments here will reflect much of what most of the veterans of this game feel at the release of the upcoming "game enchancements" information today.
To start off, for those who don't know me, I am a veteran SWG player. I tracked the game prior to release, and pre-ordered the Collector's Edition on the first day. I have played this game since day one. I own three accounts, all of which I have leveled myself. One is a Jedi, the others are non-Jedi characters. Two of those accounts are currently active (for the time being). I served as the Scout Correspondent from July 2003 until February of 2005, being the second longest serving Correspondent in the game. I attended the first Fan-fest in Anaheim (I live in Washington, DC) and I attended the Correspondent Summit in Austin, where I met Julio, Tiggs, and reintroduced myself to many of the rest of the design team that I had met at Fan-fest, including Thunderheart, Keldarin, GreenMarine (no longer with SOE) and many others. I alpha tested Jump-to-Lightspeed, and beta tested Rage of the Wookies and the Trials of Obi-Wan. I do believe that all of these experiences lend significant emphasis and credability to the opinions I want to express here.
I have reviewed the FAQ, as well as Julio's letter to the community. While it took a while to understand the magnitude of what is happening here, I have come to grips with it.
These game changes, in my opinion, represent a serious breach of trust with the community and fail to take into account the efforts that the veterans of this community have made in the game.
It is a slap in the face to announce these changes - changes which may take effect within three weeks or less to the game - ONE DAY after a new expansion that many of us have purchased copies of, some multiple copies of, was released. The dust has not even settled on The Trials of Obi-Wan, and now we are being presented with changes that will completely change the way the game looks, feels and is played. In my mind, this is little better than a virtual bait-and-switch perpetrated on the entire community.
I am well aware of the development process, thanks to my work as a Correspondent. I know that these changes must have been in the pipeline for months, particularly if all of the coding will be completed in less than one months time. The Combat Balance/Upgrade/Revamp that I assisted with and helped to shape in Austin at the Summit and throughout the process took over a year and half to develop, code and complete. Yet this entire process was done in secret, including all of the PR preparations made by Tiggs and the SOE Community Relations staff, and sprung on the community without an inkling two days after the expansion was released.
In real life, I'm a lobbyist, and I've been working in Washington for 10 years. So I've seen a lot of conspiracy theories come and go. And If I were a cynic, I would say that this was a carefully timed announcement, designed to hit the community right after the expansion was released, so that SOE and LEC could have gotten the money for the expansion from as many veterans as possible, hoping that that capital would keep the game going through the massive wave of cancellations from those same veterans when changes of this magnitude were announced. And once all the veterans are gone, marketing could focus on bringing new players to the game, who had no knowledge of the previous two years and wouldn't have a problem with what you've done here. I hope to God that that's just the anger talking here, because if any part of what I've said is just true, it would represent the biggest rip-off of an entire gaming community in the history of the gaming industry.
I feel cheated and ripped off. And I think I speak for a large portion of the community when I say that.
And this is how I feel strictly based on the timing of the announcement. The actual changes you are proposing are worse.
Changes of this magnitude, less than 6 months after changes of a similiar magnitude, make it hard for me to accept that this game will still be Star Wars Galaxies. If anything, these game enchancements seem to be attempting to turn SWG into some kind of amalgamation of World of Warcraft, Planetside and Knights of the Old Republic. This isn't why I play SWG, and isn't why I've stuck with this game for two years.
And while I recognize that we veterans will receive "elder" buffs and status in the game, that's not enough. How do you begin to repay someone for the hundreds and thousands of hours they've spent playing this game, building up credits, skills, guilds, equipment, etc. and then wiping away everything they've accomplished in less than a month? I can't tell you the number of days I've taken off work to play SWG, or ignored a deadline or got an extension on a project just to stay out a bit later in a great XP group. All of that is for naught - you are invalidating most of what I've accomplished in the game in two years and in return, I get a special buff. That's not enough.
Rangers were promised a complete revamp less than a month ago, with outlines and changes that got many of them excited about the game again. Now, Rangers have been removed. The profession that I advocated on behalf of for nearly two years, Scout, is gone. The hours and hours I spent writing and rewriting guides for the community on the profession are now worthless.
And worse than the fact that the changes can't begin to compensate for what I'm losing, you're destroying what has kept most people in this game as long as we've been here - the community.
And its already happening. I recently cancelled my World of Warcraft account (even after the news of their new expansion) to come back to SWG full time, and one of the main reasons I cited was the community. My guild on Bloodfin, which is comprised of approximately 60 players with probably close 150 accounts all-together has almost fallen apart IN THE SPAN OF FIVE HOURS. Just looking through my ventrilo, I see people with comments of "5 accounts cancelled", "3 accounts cancelled", "Anybody want to buy 100 mill credits", "3 Jedi for sale cheap, will take food for trade". These are all veteran gamers, guild leaders, beta testers, the kinds of players that MMO designers listen to and make games specifically for - and they're all unhappy. Not a single person I've spoken to is happy right now.
This entire process is fatally flawed. It's flawed because there have been consistent promises made to this community by the Community Relations staff that major changes to the game would be discussed in the community and that we would have some kind of say over them. There's a reason why there are "In Dev", "In Testing" and "In Concept" forums on these boards. But they weren't used here.
Do you even understand the magnitude of what you're doing? If you don't right now, you will when you get the metrics back on how many accounts were cancelled today.
Stop this process now. Get community feedback. Ignore the focus groups and the exit polls and LISTEN to your community. Focus groups and polling is all well and good - I use it myself. But nothing beats getting out in and amongst the actual people who play this game and hearing what they think about this. Make these changes gradual. Do them a little at a time, so that people can get used to them and integrate them into their playstyle. The game was made in a day, it doesn't need to be remade in a day.
Better yet, don't go forward with the changes at all - save them for Star Wars Galaxies II - The Search for More Money. (I hope you all get the reference).
For the sake of all of us who have put so much into this game, and even for those players who simply log in once in a while, kill a few stormtroopers but pay their $15 a month for it, reconsider these changes and allow the community a chance to respond and contribute to the process.
This is our game. It is our money and it is our free time. Respect us. Give us the opportunity to affect this process in a meaningful, cooperative way. It is the very least that we have earned through our dedication and loyalty to this game.
BRISC RUBAL
If money is all you love, then that's what you'll receive.
DARTHCYL0N
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:13 pm
#5
deepbow
perfectly said
and you are right , I am a developer I have worked projects from cradle to grave and this is not an insta patch, the level of change constitutes many , many months of design and development and in house testing. They hid this from the community , made excuses about certain changes to the system and game play.
The change doesnt bother me as much as how they went about it
The announcement timing is shady at best, malicious at worst either way SOE holds no respect for its community.
as the owner of a business I understand profit margins and PL statements.
I know the motivation behind what they are looking to do from a marketing and business standpoint.
but I find this a huge slap in the face to people like myself who love this game and spend hours upon hours of our free time playing it.
SOE understand one thing that you seem to have forgotten....
You built the game, but we made it
I urge you to think on this and remember this as you will loose allot of people who make this mmo fun just because you couldn't seem to look beyond getting more players.
Syrath Hawk - DJK
Cambriel Hawk - MDoc/MSL
'Cylon Hawk- MPike/MTC
Suezette Thrace- MBE/MA
'Foster - MPike/MFencer
These are my accounts ,I have not decided on cancelling but my faith has been lost.
drfeelgood9
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:25 pm
#6
bravo. every word the truth and pretty much on the mark. you know why they are doing this? because they dont have enough talent, skill, or money to back up the promisesthey made.
Aricy
Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:11 pm
#7
Great, great post.
I´ve been reading these forums before the release of the game (when u could). Only had the chance to start playing it 5 months ago (dont look at my account date, had to buy it from someone, we dont have this game in Argentina) and been reading the forums everyday without posting. But this one really deserves a bump so here I am.
I remember the days when this game was being made, that Q3PO asked us for feedback. Many different proposals were made by the community. Some were good, some were bad and some others were even absurd, but I remember that everyone, and when I say everyone I mean players AND devs coincided in one thing: Jedi should be rare, hard to achive and very powerful.
I´m not here to defend Jedi. I´m here to support this post, because I think that by making Jedi another starting profession they are ripping us off.I´m not a Jedi yet, but I like the fact that I have to work hard to get it, and to respect the ones who already achieved it.
I know they want moremoney, and that´s what this is about. I´mok with that. However, this upgrade is disrespectful to all of us, and with that I´m not ok.
I´m not talking of what they are doing with other profession because this is the jedi forum.
I just hope the Devs read that post.
/bump
Great post , You said what all of us are feeling right now
furlock1
Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:54 am
#13
Umm he is right about teh bait and switch no different than lots of companies in this country doing it all the time.. As for will it be for the worse no I don't think it will, I think it will be for the better. If it isn't well I doubt it, but a comapny has to do what it has too do too make profits, you realize that the everage single player game life is about 3 weeks, for 59.95 and we got Obiwan for 29.99 and a whole new game we will see how it goes. I know I will for sure.
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