Jedi Archive

---

MsNiL wrote:

---

Baciacca wrote:

Testing done against a Lvl 78 single silver elite

Force Enhancer:

Force Shield- This ability does NOT work against NPCs that use Powers against a player.

Force Feedback- This ability does work against NPCs that use Powers. Damage was reflected against them. (314 damage done to me, 314 damage reflected at NPC)

Force Absorb- This ability does work against NPCs that use Powers. Force was absorbed in to my force bar each attack when force powers were used. (32 per attack)

Force Resists- These abilities do NOT work to protect us still. Still get Dotted by CMs on first throw. Stun, Blind, Dizzy all land on first strike. (Tested with PC not a NPC)

Force Powers:

Force Cloak- Snare not yet applied to it. CM abilities still can be done to Cloaked Jedi. /Exam, /Follow, and emotes still work as well.

Force Breach- This abilitydoes remove NPC Force abilities such as Aura and Speed.

Force Defender:

Avoid Incapacitation-

• When grouped and AI is turned on, agro on the defender shifts to anyother group member.


• When ungrouped and AI is turned on, agro will not shift away but he will not attack either. Combat will break, but NPC will act as if he still has agro on you, also his regen will go through the roof like when on -retreat-.

---

Thanks for the help Bac.

Our guild just lost our primary tank... Seems to be no purpose left with A.I. now.

I trust you report Force Shield and Force Resists.

---

While I agree that a Master Defender is an oustanding tank for a grinding group... as for a dabbler being able to outgrind and outtank a Master Defender... Well there's around 78 people that ask me to tank for them daily on bloodfin. I think the fact that something is gonna get dropped and more grinding is gonna have to take place to become decent is what scares them.

Some people don't feel like being the tank 100% of the time... while others are 10x more proficient than most Master Defenders. It's knowledge of your template and where the edge of the envelope lies. I can tank 20 Level 82 Pikets.... but only if I have at least 2-3 others helping with damage and heals...

In this POST CU world... it's all about mutualism. Ill tank for you, if you can help me with heals and damage.

---

Baciacca wrote:

Testing done against a Lvl 78 single silver elite

Force Enhancer:

Force Shield- This ability does NOT work against NPCs that use Powers against a player.

Force Feedback- This ability does work against NPCs that use Powers. Damage was reflected against them. (314 damage done to me, 314 damage reflected at NPC)

Force Absorb- This ability does work against NPCs that use Powers. Force was absorbed in to my force bar each attack when force powers were used. (32 per attack)

Force Resists- These abilities do NOT work to protect us still. Still get Dotted by CMs on first throw. Stun, Blind, Dizzy all land on first strike. (Tested with PC not a NPC)

Force Powers:

Force Cloak- Snare not yet applied to it. CM abilities still can be done to Cloaked Jedi. /Exam, /Follow, and emotes still work as well.

Force Breach- This abilitydoes remove NPC Force abilities such as Aura and Speed.

Force Defender:

Avoid Incapacitation-

• When grouped and AI is turned on, agro on the defender shifts to anyother group member.


• When ungrouped and AI is turned on, agro will not shift away but he will not attack either. Combat will break, but NPC will act as if he still has agro on you, also his regen will go through the roof like when on -retreat-.

Action and Mind Costs from TC:

First set of numbers are Pre TC and Second Set are on TC currently....

Avoid Incap: Mind 10% Mind 0%
Dominage Mind: Action 4% Action 6%
Force Aura: Action 4% Action 0%
Force Valor: Action 4% Action 0%
Drain Force: Action 7% Action 6%
Force Run: Action 15% Action 0%
Force Suppression: Action 9%, Mind 4% Action 7% Mind 4%
Force Wave: Action 9%, Mind 4% Action 6% Mind 4%
Stasis: Action 9%, Mind 10% Action 8% Mind 10%
Transfer Force: Action 4% Action 0%
Force Cure Disease: Mind 5%Mind 0%
Force Cure Poison: Mind 5% Mind 0%
Force Extinguish: Mind 5% Mind 0%
Force Heal: Mind 9% Mind 0%
Force Heal States: Mind 5% Mind 0%
Force Infusion: Mind 12% Mind 0%
Force Sap: Action 1%, Mind 8% Action 0% Mind 8%
Force Shock: Action 1%, Mind 8% Action 0% Mind 8%
Force Wound Heal: Mind 3% Mind 0%
Stop Bleeding: Mind 5% Mind 0%
Total Heal: Mind 14% Mind 0%
Force Breach: Action 10% Action 8%
Force Choke: Action 20% Action 19% Mind 8%
Force Hit: Action 5% Action 5%
Force Intimidate: Action 10% Action 9%
Force Knockdown: Action 10% Action 8%
Force Lightning: Action 22% Action 20%
Force Lightning Area: Action 25% Action 22%
Force Strike: Action 8% Action 8%
Force Throw: Action 10% Action 7%
Force Weaken: Action 10% Action 8%
Mind Blast: Action 10% Action 9%

TC Currently:
Improved
Bacta shot Action 13%Mind 1 5%
Bacta Spray Action 18% Mind 12%
Bacta Toss Action 14% Mind 10%
Bacta Infusion Action 18% Mind 15%
Bacta Jab Action 11% Mind 5%

Message Edited by Baciacca on 10-13-2005 11:42 PM

---

I'm slightly confused with those percentages... I don't understand which set was BEFORE the tweak and which set is AFTER the tweak.

To me... Yellow = Before Green = After (Currently on TC) ??? (Correct me if I am indeed wrong)

Furthermore, if the above statement is true that the Green are the new values... this actually helps MANY templates out tremendously, while still some others get the shaft. I've never mastered defender because I knew AI was going to get nerfed 9 ways from Sunday... as for Cloak... I only picked that up for all 9 Corvette Badges.

---

Inat Mivea - Elder Jedi
"It ain't braggin' if you can do it . . ."


							

---

trajen2 wrote:

I'm slightly confused with those percentages... I don't understand which set was BEFORE the tweak and which set is AFTER the tweak.

To me... Yellow = Before Green = After (Currently on TC) ??? (Correct me if I am indeed wrong)

Furthermore, if the above statement is true that the Green are the new values... this actually helps MANY templates out tremendously, while still some others get the shaft. I've never mastered defender because I knew AI was going to get nerfed 9 ways from Sunday... as for Cloak... I only picked that up for all 9 Corvette Badges.

---

my thoughts exactly... so many negative responses to this post when it is only POSITIVE (if they hit LIVE)

The ONLY bad thing is AI and its inablity to be used in PvE.....still a useful PvP skill.

I know i will get flamed for this but the Mdef I know can solo super high level PvE (ie Necrosis lvl 200+ DJM) only b/c of AI. . . should this really be the purpose of AI?

---

---

trajen2 wrote:

---

kAotiC_HeRo wrote:

---

trajen2 wrote:

I'm slightly confused with those percentages... I don't understand which set was BEFORE the tweak and which set is AFTER the tweak.

To me... Yellow = Before Green = After (Currently on TC) ??? (Correct me if I am indeed wrong)

Furthermore, if the above statement is true that the Green are the new values... this actually helps MANY templates out tremendously, while still some others get the shaft. I've never mastered defender because I knew AI was going to get nerfed 9 ways from Sunday... as for Cloak... I only picked that up for all 9 Corvette Badges.

---

my thoughts exactly... so many negative responses to this post when it is only POSITIVE (if they hit LIVE)

The ONLY bad thing is AI and its inablity to be used in PvE.....still a useful PvP skill.

I know i will get flamed for this but the Mdef I know can solo super high level PvE (ie Necrosis lvl 200+ DJM) only b/c of AI. . . should this really be the purpose of AI?

---

Honestly, those Master Defenders that actually farmed on Dark Jedi Knights and Masters are what caused this to happen. Can blame NO-ONE but themselves.

---

well, it is certainly an unpopular stance, although I am against NERFs of any jedi abillity, AI caused a lot of problems...it is VERY useful in PvP but HONESTLY, spinning a piket lair? soloing the high-level PvE? it goes against everything teh CU was supposed to prevent...plus the new high-level NPCS on mustafar would be solo'd but a MDEF running AI. I think a better solution would be to have damage reduction but that would prevent the use during PvP

---

How could this be easier?

Solo character: MAX DPS = X

Boss Mob: REGEN = X*1.05

Therefore..

1 player cannot solo this mob no matter how strong their tanking is.

2 or more players can kill this mob if they can withstand its counter attacks.

The idea of making a tanking ability such as AI and then intentionally breaking it is stupid.

AI is not an escape technique as evidenced by the snare.

---

Kamujin wrote:

---

trajen2 wrote:

---

kAotiC_HeRo wrote:

---

trajen2 wrote:

I'm slightly confused with those percentages... I don't understand which set was BEFORE the tweak and which set is AFTER the tweak.

To me... Yellow = Before Green = After (Currently on TC) ??? (Correct me if I am indeed wrong)

Furthermore, if the above statement is true that the Green are the new values... this actually helps MANY templates out tremendously, while still some others get the shaft. I've never mastered defender because I knew AI was going to get nerfed 9 ways from Sunday... as for Cloak... I only picked that up for all 9 Corvette Badges.

---

my thoughts exactly... so many negative responses to this post when it is only POSITIVE (if they hit LIVE)

The ONLY bad thing is AI and its inablity to be used in PvE.....still a useful PvP skill.

I know i will get flamed for this but the Mdef I know can solo super high level PvE (ie Necrosis lvl 200+ DJM) only b/c of AI. . . should this really be the purpose of AI?

---

Honestly, those Master Defenders that actually farmed on Dark Jedi Knights and Masters are what caused this to happen. Can blame NO-ONE but themselves.

---

well, it is certainly an unpopular stance, although I am against NERFs of any jedi abillity, AI caused a lot of problems...it is VERY useful in PvP but HONESTLY, spinning a piket lair? soloing the high-level PvE? it goes against everything teh CU was supposed to prevent...plus the new high-level NPCS on mustafar would be solo'd but a MDEF running AI. I think a better solution would be to have damage reduction but that would prevent the use during PvP

---

How could this be easier?

Solo character: MAX DPS = X

Boss Mob: REGEN = X*1.05

Therefore..

1 player cannot solo this mob no matter how strong their tanking is.

2 or more players can kill this mob if they can withstand its counter attacks.

The idea of making a tanking ability such as AI and then intentionally breaking it is stupid.

AI is not an escape technique as evidenced by the snare.

---

The idea of making a tanking ability such as AI and then intentionally breaking it is stupid.

It come down to the Dev's have no idea what they are doing or want for this game. Seems to me they are listening to what the "MOB" wants( what I call the 'Jedi Haters')

It would be nice if they actually played the game. I'm not talking about playing the game using "GODMODE".

Have them get a Jedi and be hunted by a MBH/MCM (Bascially, has top of the line weapon and armor) with the crappy LS must Jedi's are running around with.

---

Yny wrote:

---

Baciacca wrote:

Force Choke: Action 20% Action 19% Mind 8%
Force Hit: Action 5% Action 5%
Force Lightning: Action 22% Action 20%

Force Strike: Action 8% Action 8%

---

Hooray for Choke getting worse and there still being no use for Force Hit or Force Strike.

I also don't see any use for lightning. It will still cost less action to do saber throw which does more damage, has a knockdown on it, and has no warm-up.

---

Inat Mivea - Elder Jedi
"It ain't braggin' if you can do it . . ."


							

just like to express a concern about:

Power Grinding / Spinning Groups

I often run these groups for the low levels in my guild, as do other full template jedi.

We NEVER use AI to spin lairs. In fact the idea of using AI is rediculous to me. With aura and force infusion running, its not like you take much damage at all. I can pretty much solo a lair meant for a group of 8 by spinning, without AI. But you don't solo these things, you are in a group. So why you would ever use AI is beyound me. The idea that the devs nerfed AI to stop spinning groups, is nonesense. I have yet to ever see a jedi touch AI when grinding.

Whats worse, is all you need is one person with area heal in the group, and you can spin till you die of old age (force runs out).

So it is beyound me why people think that power ginding/ spinning groups are the root cause of the AI nerf.

In all honestly, I don't know why they are doing this to AI. It must be to stop people soloing high end content in the new EXP. Thats my only conclusion.

---

Yeobot wrote:

I think it's obvious why they nerfed AI, first, they figure jedi are getting xp way too fast using master def tanks, so they nerf the ability cause occassionally in groups i am in the mdef has to use it, especially with level 82 pickets. Get rid of the mdef ability and now spin groups will go away. Is there really any other explanation? They can't make the animals stronger as that would mess up other profs, they can't mess around with code in combat, so they pick the easy target for their shortcoming in the first place, which is to nerf AI, plane and simple.

It's a bandaid solution to a festering wound within the game itself, which is that people grind cause they can't really have fun as a jedi until they are master, cause if they do try to have fun, a BH will kill them (cause jedi are someone's content) and then they are back at step one, so it's better to grind - i don't know of one jedi who does grind in spin groups as soon as they can, and i know about 20 ormore on my server. Major flaws lead lead to whimpy solutions and cheap stupid fixes.

---

Seriously, whoever uses AI in a spin group are complete utter noobs. I can easily keep my HAM full with just Improved Aura going and keeping myself healed. Someone standing throwing an extra bacta spray is a nice bonus. Even with level 82 mobs.

---

LintonLisa wrote:

just like to express a concern about:

Power Grinding / Spinning Groups

I often run these groups for the low levels in my guild, as do other full template jedi.

We NEVER use AI to spin lairs. In fact the idea of using AI is rediculous to me. With aura and force infusion running, its not like you take much damage at all. I can pretty much solo a lair meant for a group of 8 by spinning, without AI. But you don't solo these things, you are in a group. So why you would ever use AI is beyound me. The idea that the devs nerfed AI to stop spinning groups, is nonesense. I have yet to ever see a jedi touch AI when grinding.

Whats worse, is all you need is one person with area heal in the group, and you can spin till you die of old age (force runs out).

So it is beyound me why people think that power ginding/ spinning groups are the root cause of the AI nerf.

In all honestly, I don't know why they are doing this to AI. It must be to stop people soloing high end content in the new EXP. Thats my only conclusion.

---

Inat Mivea - Elder Jedi
"It ain't braggin' if you can do it . . ."