Jedi Archive

et al.
abbr. Latin

Back to the point at hand, a melee attacker should use tactics of some sort, whether laying an ambush or using terrain, structures, or other obstacles, to close in on a potential ranged combatant. Should you get within 5 meters, whether through surprise, clever manuevering, or superior tactics, you deserve to slaughter that person. Currently the ability of a player to defeat another is primarily a result of their defenses and offensive capabilities. I believe it should rely on the effective use of the situation, the surrounding environment, etc. to overcome the shortcomings of your profession vs.the strengths of another. Currently the use of snares is about the only way in which a purely ranged profession can do this. Even should a ranged combatant be given open ground and clear line of sight to a target, without those snares he would have no chance. The average melee profession would shrug of the damage as she closed and then proceed to bash the shooter's skull in. Balance was spoken of several times in preceding posts. The use of snares is the only current balance in effect giving ranged professions potency vis-a-vis melee professions.

I do believe that dead dog is sufficiently beaten.

Message Edited by Luxora on 10-11-2005 11:12 PM

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ObsidianWrath wrote:

I'm the one who doesn't know what's going on?

I don't know what bizarre server you play on, but I guarantee you if you go to Bria, Ahazi, Sunrunner, or any of the "vicious" PVP servers, you're going to see one thing in open GCW-PVP and Guild War: Jedi and Swordsman / Doctor/ TKM builds. Why? Because they are the only thing that wins.

If you honestly think that I can keep you completely at bay with snares and such under the current system, you are out of your mind. You clearly have no idea how they work currently. Maybe under these new proposals your argument would carry more weight, but right now it's worthless.

And by the way ... any PVPer worth their salt will tell you straight up that any build without self-healing in it is SUICIDE.

Check your facts and get back to me.

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lol, sunrunner?

to the left

<------

u can clearly see that i'm on the Bria server... and that i'm in KoA... a member of the ID and in the midst of a gigantic guild war..

i know exactly how it works... i deal with it everyday.

if you were unfortunate enough to play a rebel on my server... u would be used to getting spanked on ur melee stacker / jedi char by the beloved "Soylent" wooks of ATO.

only in a one on one temp... if u know how to work as a group, its easy to play with only stims as your main self healing.

Message Edited by Zaxtrose on 10-11-2005 09:28 PM

Pwnz0r!

Message Edited by ObsidianWrath on 10-11-2005 11:36 PM

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Zaxtrose wrote:

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ObsidianWrath wrote:

I'm the one who doesn't know what's going on?

I don't know what bizarre server you play on, but I guarantee you if you go to Bria, Ahazi, Sunrunner, or any of the "vicious" PVP servers, you're going to see one thing in open GCW-PVP and Guild War: Jedi and Swordsman / Doctor/ TKM builds. Why? Because they are the only thing that wins.

If you honestly think that I can keep you completely at bay with snares and such under the current system, you are out of your mind. You clearly have no idea how they work currently. Maybe under these new proposals your argument would carry more weight, but right now it's worthless.

And by the way ... any PVPer worth their salt will tell you straight up that any build without self-healing in it is SUICIDE.

Check your facts and get back to me.

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lol, sunrunner?

to the left

<------

u can clearly see that i'm on the Bria server... and that i'm in KoA... a member of the ID and in the midst of a gigantic guild war..

i know exactly how it works... i deal with it everyday.

if you were unfortunate enough to play a rebel on my server... u would be used to getting spanked on ur melee stacker / jedi char by the beloved "Soylent" wooks of ATO.

only in a one on one temp... if u know how to work as a group, its easy to play with only stims as your main self healing.

Message Edited by Zaxtrose on 10-11-2005 09:28 PM

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Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-12-2005 12:49 AM

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ObsidianWrath wrote:

You know, I'm sitting here thinking about it ... and I think I might have a vague idea of where this bizarre notionof hisis coming from.

If you're in some sort of freak situation with hundreds of PVPers at a time, yeah, I could "see" Ranged possibly being on par with Melee merely on account of chaos offering him "relative concealment." If there are a hundred PVPers on a field at a time, seeing "a Rifleman" is a lot harder.

On Sunrunner, we have Squad Warfare at its finest. The largest engagement teams you'll find other than raids are probably groups of 16 PVPers on both sides since the CU. As a result of that, it's faster paced, up close, brutal, and personal. I firmly believe that we have some of the best PVPers in the game merely on account of the fact that it's "kill or be killed instantly" in most up-front engagements.

If you open fire with a Carbine or a Rifle on this server, you're isolated and murdered systematically within a matter of seconds.

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Stop using big words...it's too late

Anyway..I'm done with this. Was fun while it lasted.

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AnknSkywlkr wrote:

- Get rid of armor break reduction slicing all together. This is a fundamentally flawed game mechanic. Armor break was meant to be one of the few penalties for a ranged profession when a melee fighter gets in close. Now, armor break is all but useless in PvP.If you are going to keep armor break reduction in game, I also recommend you give ALL melee professions Innate Snare Resistance, Innate Root Resistance, Innate Ranged Knockdown Defense, and Innate Ranged Dodge. Of course, none of these will ever be introduced, so why would you further reduce the effectiveness of melee against ranged? As i see it, the snare changes will only serve to make more people choose ranged over melee for any PvP application, which may well have been the intention all along.

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Or just get rid of the Armor Break skill and resist slicing all together...Not every melee person has armor break. I think the skill unbalances the game more then it helps to ballance.

-Increase the range of all Force ranged abilities to somewhere between 45m-65m. This includes Force Supression, Force Sap, Force Wave, Force Lightning, Force Choke, Stasis, etc. With the negating of the benefit of Force Run while snared, this will be necessary to "balance" a primarily melee Jedi with a "kiting" strategy of applying snares from maximum range and staying there.

- Enable debuff cooldown timers....scratch that! Sounds too much like a nerf. Instead, give out innate snare, root, and regen debuff RESISTANCES to all professions that allow only one of each individual type (root, snare, regen debuff, etc.) per TARGET every, say, 3 minutes. In other words, you can be snared and then rooted, but chances are you will have a couple of minutes when no movement limiters are possible. Likewise, you can have your regen limited for a little bit, but will be fully capable again for several minutes at a time. Anything applied after that, you have a 99% chance of resisting (there! no nerf!). Currently, with only one root and one snare, I can keep at least one movement limiter on a target ad infinitum. With the changes expected for debuffs, that would allow me to effectively stay outside of melee range indefinitely (perhaps having to hit burst run or eat parwan maybe once if a snare doesn't stick). This is clearly unbalanced and will lead to further "snare stacking" and other debuff stacking. A melee character ought to be able to get within range at some point within a fight and should be deadly when they do.

- Get rid of armor break reduction slicing all together. This is a fundamentally flawed game mechanic. Armor break was meant to be one of the few penalties for a ranged profession when a melee fighter gets in close. Now, armor break is all but useless in PvP.If you are going to keep armor break reduction in game, I also recommend you give ALL melee professions Innate Snare Resistance, Innate Root Resistance, Innate Ranged Knockdown Defense, and Innate Ranged Dodge. Of course, none of these will ever be introduced, so why would you further reduce the effectiveness of melee against ranged? As i see it, the snare changes will only serve to make more people choose ranged over melee for any PvP application, which may well have been the intention all along.

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AnknSkywlkr wrote:

A melee character ought to be able to get within range at some point within a fight and should be deadly when they do.

NO. That's the drawback of melee...and why it's an inferior form of combat in real life. Goswing your sword inWoW.

- Get rid of armor break reduction slicing all together. This is a fundamentally flawed game mechanic. Armor break was meant to be one of the few penalties for a ranged profession when a melee fighter gets in close. Now, armor break is all but useless in PvP.If you are going to keep armor break reduction in game, I also recommend you give ALL melee professions Innate Snare Resistance, Innate Root Resistance, Innate Ranged Knockdown Defense, and Innate Ranged Dodge. Of course, none of these will ever be introduced, so why would you further reduce the effectiveness of melee against ranged? As i see it, the snare changes will only serve to make more people choose ranged over melee for any PvP application, which may well have been the intention all along.

Yeah, the only thing the CU did was put some more power back into ranged professions...where it belongs. But, there is still melee dominance everywhere in this game, so I have no idea what crack you're smoking, but pass it along. There may be more ranged professions since the CU, but there are eqaul numbers of Swordsman/TK/Doc stackers and don't even attempt to deny it. Melee needed a beatdown, and I'm stillm waiting to see it. And as a Sith, I do quite fine against ranged, so I don't see much of an issue at all. You want melee, go play some fantasy-based crap. IMO, the only melee that should be in Star Wars is Jedi.

Think fighting a MBH/MCM/Pistols xxx3 stinks now? Just wait....

I much prefer these types to the melee stacking nonsense

Takes a lot to call out the flames in me, but you pulled it off.

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HarlequinMK19 wrote:

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AnknSkywlkr wrote:

A melee character ought to be able to get within range at some point within a fight and should be deadly when they do.

NO. That's the drawback of melee...and why it's an inferior form of combat in real life. Goswing your sword inWoW.

A fine start....if you're 12 years old. A) SWG is NOT real life and does not have to play by your so called real life rules. It is meant to be a fantasy game (go figure!) and should therefore play by certain rules. If the game is to be balanced -- which, presumably, this game is meant to be -- you cannot give preference to ranged over melee in all situations. B) Though I tried to avoid making this specific to Jedi, I would say in the world of Star Wars, a melee Jedi fighter was superior to their ranged counterparts in almost every way. You want to go Star Wars "real world" then blaster bolts ought to be redirected right back at the kiting offenders half the time, which clearly isn't the case.

Oh, and Dr. Real Life? You often see ranged combatants "In real life" running full speed as if they weren't holding a gun at all and hitting their targets 80-95% of the time with no hindrance or accuracy effects whatsoever. They show that sort of combat footage all the time on The History Channel....

- Get rid of armor break reduction slicing all together. This is a fundamentally flawed game mechanic. Armor break was meant to be one of the few penalties for a ranged profession when a melee fighter gets in close. Now, armor break is all but useless in PvP.If you are going to keep armor break reduction in game, I also recommend you give ALL melee professions Innate Snare Resistance, Innate Root Resistance, Innate Ranged Knockdown Defense, and Innate Ranged Dodge. Of course, none of these will ever be introduced, so why would you further reduce the effectiveness of melee against ranged? As i see it, the snare changes will only serve to make more people choose ranged over melee for any PvP application, which may well have been the intention all along.

Yeah, the only thing the CU did was put some more power back into ranged professions...where it belongs. But, there is still melee dominance everywhere in this game, so I have no idea what crack you're smoking, but pass it along

Again, real mature and a fine logical argument. As far as i can see, there are still plenty of good ranged players out there. So, ditch the hyperbole and back up your gross generalizations. Can you melee stack? Sure. Can you snare/root stack as a ranged profession? You betcha! I'm not saying melee stacking is right. I'm saying the ability of a ranged profession to counter a useful melee skill is wrong. Like I said, you want armor break resistance, give snare and root resistance. Balance. Look it up...

There may be more ranged professions since the CU, but there are eqaul numbers of Swordsman/TK/Doc stackers and don't even attempt to deny it.

I won't attempt to deny it, but you clearly make no attempt to support it but to say "It is so!" Nice job. I, however, at least understand the fundamentals of debate and therefore will supply evidence to the contrary:

Most played professions (from August 19th Friday Feature):

Force Sensitive - Combat , Bounty Hunter, Force Sensitive - Reflexes, Rifleman, Pistoleer, Teras Kasi,Force Sensitive - Senses,Carbineer, Politician, Doctor, Merchant, Combat Medic

Wow...aside from Jedi, one Melee prof in the top 12. You sure showed me!

Melee needed a beatdown, and I'm stillm waiting to see it.

Glad you made that decision! What other changes have you, in your infinite game developing wisdom, decided the game needs? Well, makingall meleeperma-snared would certainly accomplish your proposed "beat down", wouldn't it?

And as a Sith, I do quite fine against ranged, so I don't see much of an issue at all. You want melee, go play some fantasy-based crap. IMO, the only melee that should be in Star Wars is Jedi.

Again, you do fine NOW against ranged. Wait until you can't get within 35m to apply any of your awesome powers and see how you fare....And, for the record, this post is in the Jedi forums and my sig pretty much makes it clear I am a Jedi, so the end goal of this is to strengthen Jedi. Who exactly are you fighting?

Think fighting a MBH/MCM/Pistols xxx3 stinks now? Just wait....

I much prefer these types to the melee stacking nonsense

Takes a lot to call out the flames in me, but you pulled it off.

And takes a lot to get me to want tohumiliate someone by pointing out there logical flaws....but you seem to have pulled that off.

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HarlequinMK19 wrote:

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AnknSkywlkr wrote:

A melee character ought to be able to get within range at some point within a fight and should be deadly when they do.

NO. That's the drawback of melee...and why it's an inferior form of combat in real life. Goswing your sword inWoW.

A fine start....if you're 12 years old. A) SWG is NOT real life and does not have to play by your so called real life rules. It is meant to be a fantasy game (go figure!) and should therefore play by certain rules. If the game is to be balanced -- which, presumably, this game is meant to be -- you cannot give preference to ranged over melee in all situations. B) Though I tried to avoid making this specific to Jedi, I would say in the world of Star Wars, a melee Jedi fighter was superior to their ranged counterparts in almost every way. You want to go Star Wars "real world" then blaster bolts ought to be redirected right back at the kiting offenders half the time, which clearly isn't the case.

Oh, and Dr. Real Life? You often see ranged combatants "In real life" running full speed as if they weren't holding a gun at all and hitting their targets 80-95% of the time with no hindrance or accuracy effects whatsoever. They show that sort of combat footage all the time on The History Channel....

- Get rid of armor break reduction slicing all together. This is a fundamentally flawed game mechanic. Armor break was meant to be one of the few penalties for a ranged profession when a melee fighter gets in close. Now, armor break is all but useless in PvP.If you are going to keep armor break reduction in game, I also recommend you give ALL melee professions Innate Snare Resistance, Innate Root Resistance, Innate Ranged Knockdown Defense, and Innate Ranged Dodge. Of course, none of these will ever be introduced, so why would you further reduce the effectiveness of melee against ranged? As i see it, the snare changes will only serve to make more people choose ranged over melee for any PvP application, which may well have been the intention all along.

Yeah, the only thing the CU did was put some more power back into ranged professions...where it belongs. But, there is still melee dominance everywhere in this game, so I have no idea what crack you're smoking, but pass it along

Again, real mature and a fine logical argument. As far as i can see, there are still plenty of good ranged players out there. So, ditch the hyperbole and back up your gross generalizations. Can you melee stack? Sure. Can you snare/root stack as a ranged profession? You betcha! I'm not saying melee stacking is right. I'm saying the ability of a ranged profession to counter a useful melee skill is wrong. Like I said, you want armor break resistance, give snare and root resistance. Balance. Look it up...

There may be more ranged professions since the CU, but there are eqaul numbers of Swordsman/TK/Doc stackers and don't even attempt to deny it.

I won't attempt to deny it, but you clearly make no attempt to support it but to say "It is so!" Nice job. I, however, at least understand the fundamentals of debate and therefore will supply evidence to the contrary:

Most played professions (from August 19th Friday Feature):

Force Sensitive - Combat , Bounty Hunter, Force Sensitive - Reflexes, Rifleman, Pistoleer, Teras Kasi,Force Sensitive - Senses,Carbineer, Politician, Doctor, Merchant, Combat Medic

Wow...aside from Jedi, one Melee prof in the top 12. You sure showed me!

Melee needed a beatdown, and I'm stillm waiting to see it.

Glad you made that decision! What other changes have you, in your infinite game developing wisdom, decided the game needs? Well, makingall meleeperma-snared would certainly accomplish your proposed "beat down", wouldn't it?

And as a Sith, I do quite fine against ranged, so I don't see much of an issue at all. You want melee, go play some fantasy-based crap. IMO, the only melee that should be in Star Wars is Jedi.

Again, you do fine NOW against ranged. Wait until you can't get within 35m to apply any of your awesome powers and see how you fare....And, for the record, this post is in the Jedi forums and my sig pretty much makes it clear I am a Jedi, so the end goal of this is to strengthen Jedi. Who exactly are you fighting?

Think fighting a MBH/MCM/Pistols xxx3 stinks now? Just wait....

I much prefer these types to the melee stacking nonsense

Takes a lot to call out the flames in me, but you pulled it off.

And takes a lot to get me to want tohumiliate someone by pointing out there logical flaws....but you seem to have pulled that off.

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HarlequinMK19 wrote:

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AnknSkywlkr wrote:

A melee character ought to be able to get within range at some point within a fight and should be deadly when they do.

NO. That's the drawback of melee...and why it's an inferior form of combat in real life. Goswing your sword inWoW.

- Get rid of armor break reduction slicing all together. This is a fundamentally flawed game mechanic. Armor break was meant to be one of the few penalties for a ranged profession when a melee fighter gets in close. Now, armor break is all but useless in PvP.If you are going to keep armor break reduction in game, I also recommend you give ALL melee professions Innate Snare Resistance, Innate Root Resistance, Innate Ranged Knockdown Defense, and Innate Ranged Dodge. Of course, none of these will ever be introduced, so why would you further reduce the effectiveness of melee against ranged? As i see it, the snare changes will only serve to make more people choose ranged over melee for any PvP application, which may well have been the intention all along.

Yeah, the only thing the CU did was put some more power back into ranged professions...where it belongs. But, there is still melee dominance everywhere in this game, so I have no idea what crack you're smoking, but pass it along. There may be more ranged professions since the CU, but there are eqaul numbers of Swordsman/TK/Doc stackers and don't even attempt to deny it. Melee needed a beatdown, and I'm stillm waiting to see it. And as a Sith, I do quite fine against ranged, so I don't see much of an issue at all. You want melee, go play some fantasy-based crap. IMO, the only melee that should be in Star Wars is Jedi.

Think fighting a MBH/MCM/Pistols xxx3 stinks now? Just wait....

I much prefer these types to the melee stacking nonsense

Takes a lot to call out the flames in me, but you pulled it off.

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