Jedi Archive
Thread: MLS / Master Powers something to consider if cloak is changed
JediBaldy wrote:
Hi,
I have never been one to go with the FOTM template - instead I have opted for the skills that I find most fun and fit my style of play.
So I chose to go MLS, Master Powers, Enhancer 3002 and novice healer.
This way I have very strong offence, with great speed and rely on the foods and drinks that I make on my crafter alt to balance out my defensive weaknesses. I think with all these calls for cloak nerfing, people are only considering cloak as single line chosen by dabblers to enhance their template.
My defences to ranged and melee are only +45 (with FS skills and Bio Engineered clothes). With cloak being essential to my template - I use it as both an offensive and defensive skill, any drastic changes will have a big effect on me. Making a few changes to it seems fair - like using a spaceship terminal or stopping the terminal in a base but heals (to myself - not others)and channel need to stay IMHO. The fact that you still need to be clear of everything for 21m and the drain you get, is more than enough balance for this. Maybe a move to the Master box is needed for this skill but I would hate others not being able to enjoy it as I do.
If not I can quite see one of two things happening - only the diehard like me will stay powers- which would be very boring indeed or both Jedi and BH will be facing the same templates. Come what may I will be keeping my template as like I say, I find it fun - devs are always making changes anyway. If you start the chase for the perfect template, you will always be chasing it as the goalposts move
Anyways what do you lot think in view of what I have posted?
Cheers,
MLS/MP/4040 Healer here. The healing nerf devastated my template and I think the cloak nerf will finish off my template and certainly kill the one you have, too.
If cloak gets an AI snare, no amount of channel force or Force Run is gonna save you. Cloak will be just like AI - waiting to die.
And I agree - I can live with all the other changes to cloak except for the snare. The snarewould makecloak useless.
GuessWho17 wrote:
Hello there. I'm a MLS/MPowers 3000 Healer 2000 Enhancer and I have to say that while its the hardest template I've found to play, it is the most fun. I use bio clothing and really good foods/drinks/spices, but even so, I think the only thing keeping me on foot is my Pre-CU saber. If you go this template and don't have a Pre-CU saber (or atleast some pretty good pearls/crystals) then you might find that 4040 healer (my previous template) would be better off. I liked MLS MPowers 4040 healer because I had enough healing power to keep myself alive, while enough offense to keep my enemy on the defensive, and all that combined with a force sap aginst those nasty CM's and they just couldn't handle it. But... I wanted force run too much. So I said lets try it... MLS MPowers 3000 Heal 2000 enhance. Works fine, only adjustment I'd ever make is maybe 2000 Heal 3000 Enhance, but I'm still unsure. With the extra speed buff along with force run, I can handle BH's pretty well because of my extreme offensive power, but there are still some close encounters with low defenses. Hopefully this helps some.
I definitely recommend getting the extra speed - ypu can chain choke, lightning and area lighting one after the other - your only limit is your action bar as that stops me from throwing out even more powers attacks. Using a saber, even if not amazing will keep the pressure up and I reckon the best way is to alternate this with powers attacks when your action is low. Ruby and stims can keep your healing up and you always have your Jedi heals to help out when the going gets tough. i would personally go enhancer 3002 and novice healer if I were you - channel I reckon is essential with the amount of force attacks you do or if you need to give your bar a boost as a result of the drain with your needing to be near people for an extended length of time.
Cheers,
Oblox wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
Oblox wrote:
I hate them changing cloak due to the dabblers but i didnt get powers for cloak.
I don't think it was due to dabblers entirely. You had people abusing base shut downs, looting in the DWB (unintended IMO), and BH's whining they can't kill every Jedi they run across. Even if it was Master Powers you'd still have people whine and the skill would still be under the nerf bat.
Cloak was a skill that separated a Jedi from everyone else IMO, now that it's getting nerfed the way of AI Jedi is looking more and more like a regular profession. I feel bad for people who took Powers and relied on Cloak as their defense lol. Why do I get the feeling their is going to be a lot of template changes to Defender very soon?
At least this will cut the whining on Jedi for a week or two.
Honestly how many Mpowers are out there? More than previously but it was the 0400 dabblers i always heard about, they picked it up deliberatly to cloak gank in PVP, cloak loot **edit** or to escape BH.
It only takes a couple people with the skill and the whole BH forum would still be littered with complaints. As long as the skill exists people are going to get it. At one point when I liked to play my Jedi I vowed no matter where they moved that skill I'd take it, that's why I know there would be plenty that would do the exact same.
Yes people dabble to get it but how many would actually master Powers to keep it.....maybe not all but I bet a good number are so addicted to it they would change their templates to accomidate MP. Look at all the carebears becoming Jedi, Cloak is the first thing they want so they don't have to fight BH's. You thinik that will suddenly stop if they move it to Master, I seriously doubt it.
BUT I do agree they should have moved it master first and then checked the complaints at that point. If the abuses (or what people think are abuses) remained, then further balance it.
If it was moved to MP, I might go MP/LS x4xx/E 44x4/H 4xxx/Novice D, however, with the nerfs they are planning it's not even worth it anymore. I know what snaring did for AI, for Powers gah I don't want to even think about it lol.
WookieOgre wrote:
It only takes a couple people with the skill and the whole BH forum would still be littered with complaints. As long as the skill exists people are going to get it. At one point when I liked to play my Jedi I vowed no matter where they moved that skill I'd take it, that's why I know there would be plenty that would do the exact same.
Yes people dabble to get it but how many would actually master Powers to keep it.....maybe not all but I bet a good number are so addicted to it they would change their templates to accomidate MP. Look at all the carebears becoming Jedi, Cloak is the first thing they want so they don't have to fight BH's. You thinik that will suddenly stop if they move it to Master, I seriously doubt it.
BUT I do agree they should have moved it master first and then checked the complaints at that point. If the abuses (or what people think are abuses) remained, then further balance it.
If it was moved to MP, I might go MP/LS x4xx/E 44x4/H 4xxx/Novice D, however, with the nerfs they are planning it's not even worth it anymore. I know what snaring did for AI, for Powers gah I don't want to even think about it lol.
I personally think the problem is the massive damage output with its escape, combined with the defences you can get as a dabbler (which doesn't include the rest of the tree) that is the issue here. This would put off a lot of people from going powers just for this line, leaving the serious power users to use this skill as we are doing now. Yes we can attack, but tag us and we go down quick - probably before we can reapply the cloak. The extra defences allow people to recloak before they get killed - making the skill very powerful in adabbler's template but not so powerful in a Master Powers template.
Also I don't think the people wanting to compete in the new FRS (if it is indeed totally PvP based) have Master Powers as part of their template - they will not have the defences of a Master Defender or a Master Enhancer with FA and if they do, their damage output will not be that good. Shifting this to Master Powers, while restrictive I think would resolve a lot of the issues people have with cloak, while keeping it the fun skill we all know - as well of course including the fixes I have previously mentioned.
Cheers,
like I said so long ago, a 'fix' to cloak won't hurt the dabblers, they will just find a new skill to replace cloak.
All the die hard MP people are gonna feel it.
I'm MP MLS, always have been always will be.
I never used it for looting, to train mobs on other people, to camp recruiters, to shutdown bases.
I used it as a defenseive/offensive tactic and for recon and to go around the major cities unseen.
rebellious_imp wrote:
They should just move cloak to the MP box.
like I said so long ago, a 'fix' to cloak won't hurt the dabblers, they will just find a new skill to replace cloak.
All the die hard MP people are gonna feel it.
I'm MP MLS, always have been always will be.
I never used it for looting, to train mobs on other people, to camp recruiters, to shutdown bases.
I used it as a defenseive/offensive tactic and for recon and to go around the major cities unseen.
I definitely recommend getting the extra speed - ypu can chain choke, lightning and area lighting one after the other - your only limit is your action bar as that stops me from throwing out even more powers attacks. Using a saber, even if not amazing will keep the pressure up and I reckon the best way is to alternate this with powers attacks when your action is low. Ruby and stims can keep your healing up and you always have your Jedi heals to help out when the going gets tough. i would personally go enhancer 3002 and novice healer if I were you - channel I reckon is essential with the amount of force attacks you do or if you need to give your bar a boost as a result of the drain with your needing to be near people for an extended length of time.
Cheers,
Well just to let you know, I really never have a big problem with my force regen. I usually manage it quite well and only use a crapload if I 1 v 1. I have a 11 FC saber, but that really doesn't matter. When 1 v 1 I basically waste 25% of my force on Breaching, and 50% on offensive/heals. Usually when a duel ends and I win, I'm left with 20-40% force. However... when I grind, or do something like the DWB or large scale PvP my force usually stays over 80% the entire time. I would say that the healing power is not worth giving away for channel. While I understand what your saying about stims, ruby, etc, all I can say is that I disagree, mainly because you need that space for all your other food and drinks being that your defenses are low as is. Believe me, if someone roots you and armor breaks, then starts attacking you, your going to be down before that root gets off. Even at 3000 Healer I have a bit of a problem when I get rooted and that happens, and I usually have to throw on a stim, if not 2 with ruby. My suggestion is if you really want channel in your template then you could go MLS MPowers 3000 Heal 0002 enhance, but I still don't think channel is that important.
I personally find that cloaking in an MMO is not that good. Althea I do agree with a lot of people that its a good tool, and it can be used strategicly as a defensive move and if played right it can be very usefull. There is just too much gap for cheap tactics and exploits. Unfortunatly people will usually find the cheap tactics and keep doing them and then inevitably people will complain about it overand over.
People dabbled in powers 0/4/0/0 for cloak. Since that, how many complains have you heard?
-Corvette cloakers making SBD's spawn like crazy
-DWB loot whores using cloak
-Starport gankers using cloak
-Moving 21m from a duel and /sitting or /afking coming back 10 minutes later full force
-Attacking while cloak and cloak not braking
etc....
There is too much trouble caused by just 1 skill.
I think moving cloak to master box might be a solution and adding snare to it might also be good. Cause think about it, if you want to get away right (defensive tactic) then you are not cloaked... so you are able to move at normal speed, then once you cloak you get snared BUT you are cloaked so you dont need to move at super speeds cause you already gained your defensive stance (cloak). Now, moving while cloak does what? enables you to do things normally you would not. And since you are suceptible to NPC causing you drain, you normally manouver around them. BUT assume you had a snare effect you wouldn't want to manouver or anything else, you would just want to get away safely... which you can. In the same time, cloaking and pulling all aggro from DWB, Corvette, Faction bases would not be possible due to the snare and would drain you... see my point?
I am also concerned about Ranger's stealth ability that will come out. I seriously hope that one is also placed in the Master box, cause imagine a Master BH, Master CM, ranger 0/4/0/0 being able to stealth? that will defenetly not be good.
All in all, I would actually like to see this skill removed from the game, but since it wont happen, moving it to master box and adding a snare to it is much needed IMO.
Message Edited by glim3mer on 09-19-2005 10:36 AM