Jedi Archive
Thread: Force Lightning or Force Static Shock?
VaainEldritch wrote:
magneto2 wrote:
powers is was under powered
Agreed.
Powers has always been kept on a tight leash by the developers for a number of reasons. If powers were to be given a major boost in damage, then a template that is both MP and MLS would be so, ahem, overpowering it would be the one and only template. To avoid this, Powers became a "crowd control" skill set but one that could also complement LS skills - the Dark Side equivalent of Enhancer.
Clearly, from the movies, no-one ever won a fightusing only powers against an opponent with a lightsaber:
1. Luke Vs Vader - Vader used an LS
2. Emperor Vs Luke - Luke did not have his LS
3. Dooku Vs Anakin/Obi-Wan - Anakin rushed in and got toasted by lightening, but in the hands of a Master the light saber can easily deflect lightening as Obi-Wan subsequently demonstrates (and Windu in Ep3).
4. Dooku Vs Yoda - and I quote Dooku "it is obvious that thiscontest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skill with a lightsaber."
5. Mace Vs Palpatine - Mace disarmed Palpatine (taking away his saber) leaving Palpatine with only Force Powers, and Palpatine had is butt handed to him by Mace when he tried to use lightening to defeatthe saber-wielding Jedi Master.
6. Yoda Vs Palpatine - both were LS equipped and used force powers and there was no real winner (Palpatine by default - but certainly not due to Force Powers).
So, connonically, Powers has been a nifty support skill but a Jedi with a saber has never been killed by lightening.
Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-02-2005 01:51 PM
very very good points
Lightening is OK PVE but PVP it more or less bonces off armor
Message Edited by AceW on 10-02-2005 01:21 PM
VaainEldritch wrote:
magneto2 wrote:
powers is was under powered
Agreed.
Powers has always been kept on a tight leash by the developers for a number of reasons. If powers were to be given a major boost in damage, then a template that is both MP and MLS would be so, ahem, overpowering it would be the one and only template. To avoid this, Powers became a "crowd control" skill set but one that could also complement LS skills - the Dark Side equivalent of Enhancer.
Clearly, from the movies, no-one ever won a fightusing only powers against an opponent with a lightsaber:
1. Luke Vs Vader - Vader used an LS
2. Emperor Vs Luke - Luke did not have his LS
3. Dooku Vs Anakin/Obi-Wan - Anakin rushed in and got toasted by lightening, but in the hands of a Master the light saber can easily deflect lightening as Obi-Wan subsequently demonstrates (and Windu in Ep3).
4. Dooku Vs Yoda - and I quote Dooku "it is obvious that thiscontest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skill with a lightsaber."
5. Mace Vs Palpatine - Mace disarmed Palpatine (taking away his saber) leaving Palpatine with only Force Powers, and Palpatine had is butt handed to him by Mace when he tried to use lightening to defeatthe saber-wielding Jedi Master.
6. Yoda Vs Palpatine - both were LS equipped and used force powers and there was no real winner (Palpatine by default - but certainly not due to Force Powers).
So, connonically, Powers has been a nifty support skill but a Jedi with a saber has never been killed by lightening.
Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-02-2005 01:51 PM
ya it would be powerfull but would have no defenses at all id run force armor,aura,feedback,absorb,and shield wouldnt scratch me in the least then all id need to do is get in saber range and snicker as i rip him apart with my ls.
Lightning the way it is atm isnt much more than a lightshow...
the dmg it does does not justify the warmup...double the dmg it does then u can have a warmup.
I say add an advanced force lightning to master, increase the dmg it does and add this burning effect.
That way the warmup bar would be justified.
Lightning pre cu was actualyl very good, the lack of powers jedi around meant that hardly any enhancers bothered with shield or feedback, so u fight with saber then when u get a kd in unleash a lightning.
I did 1.8k with lightning that way and that was at knight.
Sorotia wrote:
VaainEldritch wrote:
magneto2 wrote:
powers is was under powered
Agreed.
Powers has always been kept on a tight leash by the developers for a number of reasons. If powers were to be given a major boost in damage, then a template that is both MP and MLS would be so, ahem, overpowering it would be the one and only template. To avoid this, Powers became a "crowd control" skill set but one that could also complement LS skills - the Dark Side equivalent of Enhancer.
Clearly, from the movies, no-one ever won a fightusing only powers against an opponent with a lightsaber:
1. Luke Vs Vader - Vader used an LS
2. Emperor Vs Luke - Luke did not have his LS
3. Dooku Vs Anakin/Obi-Wan - Anakin rushed in and got toasted by lightening, but in the hands of a Master the light saber can easily deflect lightening as Obi-Wan subsequently demonstrates (and Windu in Ep3).
4. Dooku Vs Yoda - and I quote Dooku "it is obvious that thiscontest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skill with a lightsaber."
5. Mace Vs Palpatine - Mace disarmed Palpatine (taking away his saber) leaving Palpatine with only Force Powers, and Palpatine had is butt handed to him by Mace when he tried to use lightening to defeatthe saber-wielding Jedi Master.
6. Yoda Vs Palpatine - both were LS equipped and used force powers and there was no real winner (Palpatine by default - but certainly not due to Force Powers).
So, connonically, Powers has been a nifty support skill but a Jedi with a saber has never been killed by lightening.
Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-02-2005 01:51 PM
ya it would be powerfull but would have no defenses at all id run force armor,aura,feedback,absorb,and shield wouldnt scratch me in the least then all id need to do is get in saber range and snicker as i rip him apart with my ls.
The point is - should lightening be made significantly more powerful?. If it were, MP MLS would not need any defences because it would rip you to shreds before you could take 3k health off even with no defence (and everyone can get at least some defence form food and clothing - when it works).
I think Force Lightening does not need the winde up timer and certainly should not require that you stand still. Take away these restrictions and leave the damage as it is.
Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-02-2005 08:02 PM
bhscum wrote:
all i have to say is that palpatine wasnt getting his butt handed to him by mace. he was doing that on purpose to get anakin to step in and save him thus turning to the dark side. all manipulation in that movie. plus palp did use lightning on mace to blow him out the window
Actually that is complete conjecture.
Look at the SW database and you will find the cannonoical version of what happened. Windu was too strong for Palpatine in a one-on-one confrontation.
But Palpatinehad the deeper understanding of the Force.Windu's mistake, if you can call it that, was to fail to recognise the threat that Anakin presented, to doubt that Anakin was the Chosen One. Palpatine had no doubt, and saw it and allowed fate to take its course.
It is therefore supremely ironic that Palpatine allowed the Force to have its way, knowing that Anakin was the Chosen One and that "fate" would intervene. Windu failed to see this, or admit that it was a possibility and so he was lost.
Had the Anakin not intervened, had he not been the chosen one, then Windu would have killed Palpatine that night.
VaainEldritch wrote:
magneto2 wrote:
powers is was under powered
Agreed.
Powers has always been kept on a tight leash by the developers for a number of reasons. If powers were to be given a major boost in damage, then a template that is both MP and MLS would be so, ahem, overpowering it would be the one and only template. To avoid this, Powers became a "crowd control" skill set but one that could also complement LS skills - the Dark Side equivalent of Enhancer.
Clearly, from the movies, no-one ever won a fightusing only powers against an opponent with a lightsaber:
1. Luke Vs Vader - Vader used an LS
2. Emperor Vs Luke - Luke did not have his LS
3. Dooku Vs Anakin/Obi-Wan - Anakin rushed in and got toasted by lightening, but in the hands of a Master the light saber can easily deflect lightening as Obi-Wan subsequently demonstrates (and Windu in Ep3).
4. Dooku Vs Yoda - and I quote Dooku "it is obvious that thiscontest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skill with a lightsaber."
5. Mace Vs Palpatine - Mace disarmed Palpatine (taking away his saber) leaving Palpatine with only Force Powers, and Palpatine had is butt handed to him by Mace when he tried to use lightening to defeatthe saber-wielding Jedi Master.
6. Yoda Vs Palpatine - both were LS equipped and used force powers and there was no real winner (Palpatine by default - but certainly not due to Force Powers).
So, connonically, Powers has been a nifty support skill but a Jedi with a saber has never been killed by lightening.
Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-02-2005 01:51 PM
ANd the reason jedi are soo good with a ls, oh wait ya that's it THE FORCE.
Jedi are against using the force to directly harm someone(hence why you never see them choke/lightning) and yoda was stronger than dooku in the force
, so he had to out saber yoda.
Luke vs emperor, luke had one but he chucked it away. Bam, luke got pwnt.
Obi- vs dooku: After toasting anakian and obi with his saber skill he used his force abilities to provide the distraction to escape, and by yoda's struggling he barely saved anakin.
I'd go on more but i think you get the point(oh yeah, i guess dookue didn't just chuck obi-wan across the room with, oh what was it, the force?).
Besides this is the game not the movies, if you really wanted to argue with me i could make this game so realistic and unfun you'd be in tears.
TheMonkeyDude wrote:
VaainEldritch wrote:
magneto2 wrote:
powers is was under powered
Agreed.
Powers has always been kept on a tight leash by the developers for a number of reasons. If powers were to be given a major boost in damage, then a template that is both MP and MLS would be so, ahem, overpowering it would be the one and only template. To avoid this, Powers became a "crowd control" skill set but one that could also complement LS skills - the Dark Side equivalent of Enhancer.
Clearly, from the movies, no-one ever won a fightusing only powers against an opponent with a lightsaber:
1. Luke Vs Vader - Vader used an LS
2. Emperor Vs Luke - Luke did not have his LS
3. Dooku Vs Anakin/Obi-Wan - Anakin rushed in and got toasted by lightening, but in the hands of a Master the light saber can easily deflect lightening as Obi-Wan subsequently demonstrates (and Windu in Ep3).
4. Dooku Vs Yoda - and I quote Dooku "it is obvious that thiscontest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skill with a lightsaber."
5. Mace Vs Palpatine - Mace disarmed Palpatine (taking away his saber) leaving Palpatine with only Force Powers, and Palpatine had is butt handed to him by Mace when he tried to use lightening to defeatthe saber-wielding Jedi Master.
6. Yoda Vs Palpatine - both were LS equipped and used force powers and there was no real winner (Palpatine by default - but certainly not due to Force Powers).
So, connonically, Powers has been a nifty support skill but a Jedi with a saber has never been killed by lightening.
Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-02-200501:51 PM
ANd the reason jedi are soo good with a ls, oh wait ya that's it THE FORCE.
And your point here is what, exactly? I'm not debating that the Jedi use the Force to safely wield their weapons with stunning speed, accuracy and preturnatural foresight.
Jedi are against using the force to directly harm someone(hence why you never see them choke/lightning) and yoda was stronger than dooku in the force
Again, I agree - Dooku was unable to best Yoda using Powers and resorted to using a saber.
Luke vs emperor, luke had one but he chucked it away. Bam, luke got pwnt.
This is precisely my point. Luke was "pwnt", as you so eloquently put it, because a) he relinquished his saber and b) he was in no position to successfully kill Palpatine with it while Vader was acting as watch-dog (see the scene where Luke does actually get his saber back and swings at the Emperor - bam Vader to the rescue).
Obi- vs dooku: After toasting anakian and obi with his saber skill he used his force abilities to provide the distraction to escape, and by yoda's struggling he barely saved anakin.
Again, correct - powers were used as support skills as Dooku could not beat Yoda with sabers or powers, and so he gave Yoda a choice - save the two young Jedi or chase Dooku. Yoda chose to preserve life - as Dooku knew he would, thusfacilitating Dooku's escape.
I'd go on more but i think you get the point(oh yeah, i guess dookue didn't just chuck obi-wan across the room with, oh what was it, the force?).
No, I don't "get the point", unless your point was to actually support what I was saying in the first place. And yes, Dooku use Force Throw on Obi-Wan but it did not kill him - it just gave Dooku a tactical advantage, just like any good support skill should.
Besides this is the game not the movies, if you really wanted to argue with me i could make this game so realistic and unfun you'd be in tears.
Once again, I agree with you - game mechanics for an enjoyable game should be prioritised over a dogmatic approach to canon.
Don't put words into my mouth.
Uneshoof wrote:Shouldn't force lightning cause wound damage and possibly set fire to the target? Did anyone else see the Emperor's face after Windu reflected the lightning back at him?His face looked pretty melted to me.With the low amount of damage that Powers users have already, can we at least get lightning to cause wounds and have a chance to set fire?Come on, it's lightning! Right now the ability is the equivalent of rubbing my feet on the carpet and then touching someone.
I feel the only thing Lightning and area lightning need is faster warmups, when in a spin group the creatures are often dead before area lightning would go off. Invalid target, we have a zip bar that takes 2 sec to fill, however it takes 3 sec before the bar even starts, so 5 sec to get the lightning fired.
Well then by all means enighten the rest of us, I've seen MPowers users with LS that have done well but never a MPowers without LS, there must be something that 90% of the MPowers users are missing, the only people I can beat are people that don't know much about either their temp or my temp.
AceW wrote:
I have a Master powers Jedi.
I can stand against and kill all sorts of Jedi and non Jedi with it.
I've had tmy template for some time and learned how to use it to the fullest.
I have no skills in lightsaber.
Message Edited by AceW on 10-02-2005 01:21 PM
I have done extensive tests trying to make powers usefull by itself, against Defenders, once they have aura up we either miss or do little damage, I have tried breaching aura but thats not much use with the little time inbetween auras, I have always tried to breach it just after they put it up, giving me, at most, 40 seconds, and no matter what i throw at them in that 40 seconds it's not enough to outdamage their infusion.
Against Enhancers, don't even try, once they know you're powers and they know their temp, all they have to do is put up feedback, same timing problem with reagrds to breaching that aswith aura except i'm hurting myself in the meantime. I've been able to incap myself against an Enhancer with all his defenses up and him not fighting back.
Against BH/CM's the only thing we have again is choke, lightning is not quick enough for their heals, even if you use macro's and drains your action to the point you're killing yourself. Force hit does'nt do much and is on the same timer as everything else in powers, so chaining moves is not an option. We can't breach anything against these guys and if you come up against a TKM you might as well throw in the towel as they will always have COB up and that is'nt breachable, meaning we miss and do little to no damage again except for choke, but at least with these guys we can outlast their mind bar iof we're careful with our force.
All MLS have to do is root us at the right time and if we don't have stasis or a crapload of heals left then we're toast.
Now, I can always get away from a fightbeing a powers/enhancer, but I want to play the game, but it seems that unless, like I said, they don't know I'm powers or they don't know their template then the best I can achieve is a stalemate....and thats if I play my cards right (which I can do most of the time).
This is'nt a flame, I'm asking that after testing Intim/Dizzy/Stun, Weaken, Detrium Pyro, getting +25 force acc in seas, having the FS branches to complement powers and trying to time moves (like KD, Stasis and breach), so that my enemy is without their defenses long enough for meto do damage, that I must be missing something obvious. Please embarrass me, because I'm at a loss.
Sorotia wrote:
Uneshoof wrote:
Shouldn't force lightning cause wound damage and possibly set fire to the target? Did anyone else see the Emperor's face after Windu reflected the lightning back at him?His face looked pretty melted to me.
With the low amount of damage that Powers users have already, can we at least get lightning to cause wounds and have a chance to set fire?
Come on, it's lightning! Right now the ability is the equivalent of rubbing my feet on the carpet and then touching someone.
awesome idea
would be cool to see dark powers like in kotor debilitating and damaging but then again would make sense and give us power so we will never see it
Yeah, I have been trying to figure out since I started playing this game, why do combat medics spread disease and poison around? Does SOE know what a "combat medic" is? It's a person that does quick emergency response to wounds taken on the battlefield. Basically a medical professional somewhere between a doctor and a medic with basic soldering skills. They can do crude surgery in an emergency, and they can fight if they have to. They should be a group component like squad leaders...but right now they are basically biochem terrorists. It's like making a profession called "Firefighter" and he goes around setting everyone on fire. Or "Policeman" and he goes around stealing from people...