Jedi Archive

Thread: Thunderhearts post on the new debuff and buff system. Also how the new snare will work.

TheCapn2000
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:55 am
#14






trajen2 wrote:






Liani wrote:

Ranged professions have had a distance advantage since the game began. (They are RANGED professions)


They have had snare/root abilities since the CU.


/shrug







yeah. the thing is that before, we could use force run or some other speed buff but now, that is not an option. . .


I am only pointing out a fact...i believe this wont be as bad as everything thinks.




I have reserved most of my comments until we see it live...but I can forsee this being a huge issue for all melee toons...




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GlargTheKelfn
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:59 am
#15



B-J wrote:


Xalya_Shadowalker wrote:

Rifleman with ranged arms: 80m Range

Jedi: 32m range max.

Rifleman v. Snared Jedi: Jed cannot even get close enough to hit.




NO... ANY MELEE PROFESSION .. This does not affect only Jedi



or pistols, or carbine. unless you have a rifle & borg arms, you are just a target




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Xalya_Shadowalker
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:24 pm
#16






maverickjones wrote:
if your so worried then dont be a jedi!!

so what if u get hit at 80m. saber block, valor, FR 2, 3, armor, cloak, area kd, heals stims!! have you forgot about these skills? any combination of these skills is more than enough to counter a snare. if you dont more than one you need to think about getting vis or changing template.

In my opinion this makes the game a tad more realistic and welcome it. in real life you get hit in the leg with a blunt object or a projectile i dont think you going to run fast.......so why not mimic this in a game where ppl constantly complain about not being real or life-like???

Message Edited by maverickjones on 10-14-2005 02:51 PM





In real life, if i hit you in the head with a lightsaber, you die. End of discussion.





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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:28 pm
#17






maverickjones wrote:
if your so worried then dont be a jedi!!

so what if u get hit at 80m. saber block, valor, FR 2, 3, armor, cloak, area kd, heals stims!! have you forgot about these skills? any combination of these skills is more than enough to counter a snare. if you dont more than one you need to think about getting vis or changing template.

In my opinion this makes the game a tad more realistic and welcome it. in real life you get hit in the leg with a blunt object or a projectile i dont think you going to run fast.......so why not mimic this in a game where ppl constantly complain about not being real or life-like???

Message Edited by maverickjones on 10-14-2005 02:51 PM




Whenever I've been buffed with force speed in real life, and had my saber in hand it's never been a problem to be shot in the leg with a blaster.



oh wait....





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TrogdorrtheBurninator
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:34 pm
#18

i don't see a huge problem here.... i see riflemen using snare to try and kite us making defenders use valor to make their movement while shooting modifier drop to absolutely nothing.... they might hit 1 out of 10 shots so im not sure why ppl are worried.... unless they don't have valor



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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:40 pm
#19






TrogdorrtheBurninator wrote:
i don't see a huge problem here.... i see riflemen using snare to try and kite us making defenders use valor to make their movement while shooting modifier drop to absolutely nothing.... they might hit 1 out of 10 shots so im not sure why ppl are worried.... unless they don't have valor





Yay for template diversity!



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LangaNor
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:53 pm
#20

question about the new changes... if snares/roots diminish the efficacity of movement buffs, would reaplication of a movement buff counter a snare/root?



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TrogdorrtheBurninator
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:05 pm
#21

from what TH said i was lead to believe so... but i have heard differently in other threads from our corro



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Trogdorr
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HashiEno
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:17 pm
#22






thunderheart wrote:


Why is this changing?

This will address current gameplay issues and will prepare the way for future Squad Leader enhancements.







so, i basically they are taking something away from everyone in order to be able to give something to squad leaders?


i am willing to bet that squad leaders are going to be able to add an enhancement to their squad that will more or less give back the ability to trump snares. wow, interesting way to handle things. i wonder what else is going to change along these same lines. oh yeah, i guess they are also taking something away from jedi in order to give something to rangers. wow, it ISa trend.


other than this stuff, the basic problem with the change is that it is completely rock and scissors now. before, roots, snares, and burst/force runs could be used in a dynamic way that allowed for neither to be the obvious win in all cases. however, with this change there is no such dynamic because the snare will always win. you cant counter it, you just wait for it to go away, if you can survive.
maverickjones
Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:42 pm
#23



Xalya_Shadowalker wrote:


maverickjones wrote:
if your so worried then dont be a jedi!!

so what if u get hit at 80m. saber block, valor, FR 2, 3, armor, cloak, area kd, heals stims!! have you forgot about these skills? any combination of these skills is more than enough to counter a snare. if you dont more than one you need to think about getting vis or changing template.

In my opinion this makes the game a tad more realistic and welcome it. in real life you get hit in the leg with a blunt object or a projectile i dont think you going to run fast.......so why not mimic this in a game where ppl constantly complain about not being real or life-like???

Message Edited by maverickjones on 10-14-2005 02:51 PM



In real life, if i hit you in the head with a lightsaber, you die. End of discussion.




maybe could be true, in counter in real life there would be armor and helmets with cortosis ore to keep sabers from penetrating and killing in one blow....eh? maybe. now in game that doesnt exist but if sabers could one hit kill the game wouldnt be like we know it.....ie: no jedi, sabers do less damage, so much stuff to counter your saber to the head= death. i say that myth is busted



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AtonuTragona
Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:05 pm
#24

This change is aweful, as have been almost all the changes since the Combat Nerf. why can't these morons move onto developing SWG2 and stop messing with us.




insaniac77
Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:42 pm
#25

Well I wont know until this actually comes out but this sounds like crap, my template is not a really common one and I dont have that much for damage output, its great pve but not for killing in pvp, i made it for escaping in pvp and its good for that since I can rarely kill a bh but i can usually manage to escape (definitly not always easy), hope this doesnt work how i think it will work from the explanation or im going down to anything that comes for me.



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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:32 am
#26

These changes double the effacy of snares. They strip the * 2 effectiveness of speed boosts and, on top of that, add another level off effectiveness by halving the stat in question.


All for the same cost.


TH's post doesn't really explain the reasoning. It says clearly what they want to accomplish, but not why. It doesn't say why they felt these changes were necessary. As far as I'm concerned, it's half a communication and really does nothing to ease my mind concerning the changes. The effect is rather drastic on melee of any stripe.


Combat for a ranged character begins at up to 80m. Combat for a melee character begins at 6m. Combat for a Jedi begins at up to 32m. At best, that's up to 48m of immunity for a ranged player and allows them a great deal of control over the flow of combat. If these effects were unreliable, or highly resistable (and I'm thinking of Last Ditch as an example) then it wouldn't be as bad. But that's not the case.


Yes, a melee can, and should,carry an uncerted ranged weapon. But that is a very flimsy band-aid and runs counter to the concept of a melee character. Packing an ALR should only be done with the idea of that as a supplemental form of damage and as a pulling tool in PVE. Expecting a melee character to use an ALR to counter the debilitating effects of snares enforces the idea that melee are going to be second class citizens in PVP.


And even at that, a melee with a uncerted ranged weapon will always be inferior at ranged than a ranged profession of near-equitable combat levels. The ranged character will have the bonuses and specials and certifications to hands-down beat a melee character in their own arena.


And that is as it should be.


However, if a ranged player can virtually guarantee that all combat will be at range, and at THEIR preferred range, then that doesn't seem too balanced unless I'm missing something.




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