Jedi Archive

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ArianSix wrote:

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jemeni wrote:

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SirVivor007 wrote:
Reviving should not count as a death. If you pass out and I revive you you did not die so you did not clone. Pretty sure it said Jedi did not take the rigours of cloning well.

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Reviving is healing you so you get up from incapacitation.

Resurrecting you is bringing you back from the DEAD. So you obviously should lose a life.

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I suggest you read up on rezzing since bringing someone back from death makes no sense.

According to the official definition (read the doc skill tree), rezzing is the act of bringing someone back from the BRINK of death.

By this OFFICIAL definition, you're not actually creating Frankenstein (bringing the dead back to life), but you're actually performing emergency procedures to save the guy before he actually dies.

If you'll notice, there is a time limit (supposedly) on rezzing. You can't sit there dead for an hour and be rezzed. You actually have to be rezzed within a certain amount of time or you WILL die and then cannot be rezzed anymore.

So... it doesn't make sense that a Jedi loses a life because the Jedi didn't die... he just got close to dying. As such, rezzing shouldn't count towards the death toll.

-- A6

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The term resurrection refers to one coming back from the dead. I'm not saying what it is or is not in this game, but by this OFFICIAL definition of the word, you might understand why one might disagree with you.

Well, then maybe we can combine a number of these issues to come up with something that makes sense.

Here's what we know:

1. In-game definition (via doc tree) says that you're bringing someone back from the brink of death (Bob, walk away from the light!)...

2. The res kits are resuscitation packs (not ressurrection packs)...

So the only real thing to cover is the "Corpse of Bob" issue. Just because it says you're a corpse doesn't mean you are. I may be wrong, but doesn't Feign Death is smuggler work that way?

Anyways, that's not important because we can throw Phal's argument in here about the medical stuff. Maybe we're are clinically dead, but not actually dead.

Don't people "die" during open-heart surgury to be brought back to life (hopefully) when all the work is done?

At that point, when the Jedi falls on the ground he's "dead". But a skilled doctor can run up and save him before he's really dead. So... he's not dead. The main point of conflict is "When is dead?"

I took a class in college a number of years ago called "Death, Extinction, and the Future of Humanity". It was a very dark class but I really liked how one of our guest speakers defined the difference between near-death and death:

"Near death is not death, because when you're dead you're not coming back."

So by this, falling on the ground as a corpse is "near death". After you sit there for a while, a doctor is no longer able to ressuscitate you. At that point you're "dead" because you're not coming back.

-- A6

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ArianSix wrote:
Well, then maybe we can combine a number of these issues to come up with something that makes sense.

Here's what we know:

1. In-game definition (via doc tree) says that you're bringing someone back from the brink of death (Bob, walk away from the light!)...

2. The res kits are resuscitation packs (not ressurrection packs)...

So the only real thing to cover is the "Corpse of Bob" issue. Just because it says you're a corpse doesn't mean you are. I may be wrong, but doesn't Feign Death is smuggler work that way?

Anyways, that's not important because we can throw Phal's argument in here about the medical stuff. Maybe we're are clinically dead, but not actually dead.

Don't people "die" during open-heart surgury to be brought back to life (hopefully) when all the work is done?

At that point, when the Jedi falls on the ground he's "dead". But a skilled doctor can run up and save him before he's really dead. So... he's not dead. The main point of conflict is "When is dead?"

I took a class in college a number of years ago called "Death, Extinction, and the Future of Humanity". It was a very dark class but I really liked how one of our guest speakers defined the difference between near-death and death:

"Near death is not death, because when you're dead you're not coming back."

So by this, falling on the ground as a corpse is "near death". After you sit there for a while, a doctor is no longer able to ressuscitate you. At that point you're "dead" because you're not coming back.

-- A6

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Now if the Devs would subscribe to that reasoning there would be a lot of happy Jedi!

I can clarify this easily, me and my jedi friend tested this no more than 2 days ago. When he was rezzed by a doc, it counted as 1 of his lifes. odd thing was is that he got an extra life and when he rezzed it said he had -1 deathes reminaing. next time he died and we rezzed he lost skills, items, and creds.

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jemeni wrote:

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SirVivor007 wrote:
Reviving should not count as a death. If you pass out and I revive you you did not die so you did not clone. Pretty sure it said Jedi did not take the rigours of cloning well.

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Reviving is healing you so you get up from incapacitation.

Resurrecting you is bringing you back from the DEAD. So you obviously should lose a life.

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The dev's stated that 'Jedi may only clone 3 times.' According to what they have said, you can Res. all you want. But it doesn't work that way. Had a friend try it before.

Simply face the facts that a doctor rez counts as a death. Otherwise there would be Jedis with Doc-in-tow everywhere you look, Jedi dies, doc rezzes, nothing lost, huge exploit.

The important part that everyone seems to miss is the Jedi email sent when you create you FSCS. I don't have the copy handy that I have seen, but I remember it stating that CLONING was very damaging to Jedi, and after a while would result in skill loss. However, reviving/rezzing/whatever else you want to call it, does cause a loss of a life. I don't know of anyone who tested 3 rezzes+ to see if they only had to have skill loss when they finally cloned. Be a nice experiment to partake in.

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Sifa_Dias wrote:
Simply face the facts that a doctor rez counts as a death. Otherwise there would be Jedis with Doc-in-tow everywhere you look, Jedi dies, doc rezzes, nothing lost, huge exploit.

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If you think this is really a big problem, you'll want to play the game some more.

Think about it...

1. If the Jedi is killed by DB monsters... don't you think they'll kick the doc's butt too?

2. If the Jedi is killed by another player... rez'ing the Jedi gets you a doc with a tef and a Jedi with 0 HAM.

Either way the Jedi is hosed.

The only time rez'ing helps the Jedi is if they're killed by some evil mob that walks away or are dumb enough to die from 3 incaps in a row.

Rez'ing isn't a big deal, but *should* be allowed since not allowing it doesn't make any sense and allowing it has minimal impact on the game.

-- A6

Doctor rez = lose a Jedi life.

I performed a rez on a Jedi that was duelling some folks. He lost a life andapparently received a message to that effect, since he was planning on re-rolling after it happened.

If a doc rez would save a Jedi from permadeath, I'd make a good business from being an "xp partner" following a client around on advanced planets.

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jemeni wrote:

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SirVivor007 wrote:
Reviving should not count as a death. If you pass out and I revive you you did not die so you did not clone. Pretty sure it said Jedi did not take the rigours of cloning well.

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Reviving is healing you so you get up from incapacitation.

Resurrecting you is bringing you back from the DEAD. So you obviously should lose a life.

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I would have to argue that "death" is not the cause, rather cloning is... IF you, in real life, die, and are resucitated ... Well, I hope I don't have to mention you DIDN'T clone... (unless you're one of those "Ralians", in which case, git on wit yo bad self.)

With all intents and purposes, it should be three "CLONES not DEATHS. BUT, I dont' know yet.. heh I'd think it's clones, only for the same reasonwe have"new player exemption".

the number of deaths they have goes up as they become more powerful.

kinda has nothing to do with this.....

anyway

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jemeni wrote:

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SirVivor007 wrote:
Reviving should not count as a death. If you pass out and I revive you you did not die so you did not clone. Pretty sure it said Jedi did not take the rigours of cloning well.

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Reviving is healing you so you get up from incapacitation.

Resurrecting you is bringing you back from the DEAD. So you obviously should lose a life.

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I suggest you read up on rezzing since bringing someone back from death makes no sense.

According to the official definition (read the doc skill tree), rezzing is the act of bringing someone back from the BRINK of death.

By this OFFICIAL definition, you're not actually creating Frankenstein (bringing the dead back to life), but you're actually performing emergency procedures to save the guy before he actually dies.

If you'll notice, there is a time limit (supposedly) on rezzing. You can't sit there dead for an hour and be rezzed. You actually have to be rezzed within a certain amount of time or you WILL die and then cannot be rezzed anymore.

So... it doesn't make sense that a Jedi loses a life because the Jedi didn't die... he just got close to dying. As such, rezzing shouldn't count towards the death toll.

-- A6

No they can't be resed.