Jedi Archive
Thread: Message to Jedi, Bounty Hunters and Force Sensitive
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XanKrieger
Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:31 pm
#1
"Wether You Like It Or Not, Your In The Middle Of A War Thats Been Raging For Near 3Years, Between the Jedi Orderand Bounty Hunters Guild" - Trigen "Xan" Krieger
This game is a Mass Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, as such the community is what makes this game enjoyable and gives a sense of immersion and fellowship between players, their is the Galatic Civil War which is intended to divide the political ideas for both active combatants and Roleplayers is at the moment completely borked, as such there is another war, a "shadow" war at the moment that is truely horrible and has become very sinister and disgusting to be a part of.
The War between the Bounty Hunter and Jedi community has grown, into a thing of Hate, Envy, Rage, Disgust.
0. About Me/ Message to Mods, Devs and CSR
1. Why Become Jedi/ Bounty Hunter?
1a. Jedi aint that great
1b. Bounty Hunters = Scum Of the Universe
2. An Alternative to Nerfs
3. Learn To Play or dont play at all
4. Players Code of Conduct for Forced PVP
5. Why exploit?
6. The "1.5x Stronger" Theory
7. Using the Forums
8. The GCW "AKA - The Dead War"
9.Possible ways to heal the community
10. Messages to each Member of the Conflict
0. About Me/ Message to Mods, Devs and CSR
Hello, i'm Trigen Krieger, a Post CU Jedi Padawan who has a Non-Respec Bounty Hunter as my alternate character, I came to this game to take part as a soilder in the Galatic Civil War, i have been playing since pre publish 9 which is better known as the great jedi nerf. I'm posting this to get a message across to all whom chose to take part or want to be part of the "Shadow War" , someone needed to post a collected thread of all the current issues and thoughts on the War, i like to think.....i'm not Incredibly smart, but i do understand a great deal about the how the mind and world functions and can come to a non bias conclusion on all of this.
TO ALL MODERATORS: Please do not delete this thread, but please sticky it to the posted board as this contains information for the long term, this thread is intended for the public to view and read to understand whats invloved in the aspect of the game that ruins the community. This thread has taken little over 2hrs to write up so please dont delete it.
TO ALL DEVS: Read this...get some ideas from it on how to manage and rebuild the system and how to make a friendly well rounded community and fix some issues that ruin peoples game play and cause you and your company to lose money.
TO ALL CSR: Hi guys ^^
1.Why Become Jedi/ Bounty Hunter?
Force Sensitive/ Jedi:
1 - To be powerful
2 - To be a Jedi
3 - To Roleplay a Jedi
4 - To Use a Lightsaber
5 - To Use the force
6 - To be better than someone?
7 - To become the Alpha Class
8 - End Game
9 - You bought a Jedi from Ebay?
10 - To help others
Aspiring Bounty Hunters/ Bounty Hunter:
1 - Roleplay
2 - PVP
3 - Power
4 - To destroy the Jedi
5 - Because you want to kill them out of envy?
6 - To Become a Beta Class
7 - Power without becoming Jedi
8 - To Hunt
9 - For a Jedi alt
10 - For the abilities
? = Possibly
1a. Jedi aint that Great
Jedi is a Marketing scheme that LA and SOE use to encourage newer players to join with the hopes of becoming a rather hated and under powered profession, trust me, its a marketing point and a unlock class, thats it, not any more special than a Teras Kai Master
1b. Bounty Hunters = Scum of the Universe
You gotta be ready as if you chose to hunt Jedi and win (which takes skill) you will gain a level of hate and this can generate to the point where you will have MANY enemies
2. An Alternative to Nerfs
Guys, insted of calling for nerfs which makes using a skill less enjoyable ask for YOURS to get to a equal lvl of power, Nerfs dont help anyone except people who want eveything handed to them, if you ask for nerfs prepare to get nerfed yourselves.
No Nerfs, More improvements for balance
However balance is key as if we keep overpowering skills to out do the others this will lead use back to Pre CU, so Balanced Anti-nerfs are the simple soulotion, Ask for your skill to get on par with the skill your combating
ALSO i must make a point, here, Jedi is ment to be1.5x more powerful and thus some skills are ment to give an edge such as Stasis which is fine as it is and Cloak, they are not I Wins but rather I Run. Nerfing them will bring about more hatred so please learn and adapt, a good bounty hunter can easily kill a cloaker, i have.
3. Learn To Play or dont play at all
If you cant beat a jedi or a Bounty Hunter in combat, you may either be inexperienced or not fit to play the profession yet, and so Learn to play or dont play at all, if you call for nerfs you are just degrading the other profession and lowering yourself, If you cant beat you target then Practice makes perfect, Bounty Hunters can do this safely and jedi can also ontop of guild halls, if you still fail, then do not hunt or do not get onto the terms (yes i understand this is immpossible, but is the only real way)
If you Fail, do not call for nerfs or expect the same
If you still fail after practice, youmay not be ready to continue in this profession
If you chose to continue, you will get active practice which will help to teach you tactics and skills
There are many guides on both forums to help you learn how to PVP, these will teach you what to do however it cannot prepare you for certain circumstances, read the gides then put them into practice, if you fail learn and improve.
Nerf calls dont benefit anyone,,,,
4. Players Code of Conduct for Forced PVP
These are simple Guidelines that should be followed to encourage non-hostile force pvp however that works ^^
1 - Jedi remeber, Bounty Hunters are our content, not theirs
2 - In line with roleplay consider whats happening and analysis the situation
3 - Do not use exploits as these give unfair advantages and risk the status of your account being banned
4 - If you Win, do not rub it in, if anything tell the one who lost how to improve and part peacfuly
5 - If you Lose, do not take offence, dont flame or curse, you lost and nothing can change that, just accpet it, and move on without saying anything
6 - Follow your morals and be just and fair in how you deal with your target
7 - Remain Calm, and focus on preparing urself for long combat times, if a Jedi think of it as being Overt, u wouldnt go AFK Overt in the middle of nowhere would you
8 - Many hunts can end with curses exchanged, words said and long term disgust for one another, you play for fun not hate
9 - As you progress thro a fight, learn your enemies tactics and methods, learn whens key to strike with that KD shot or Supression
10 - This is only a game and as such you should immerse youself into Star Wars but have fun and play fair with other players
5. Why exploit
Some do to gain the upper hand, but this can cost you a perma ban from SWG, its not fair to anyone and is wrong, some do it knowing all to well that few CSR will do anything about it, both sides use exploits, people who do should have actions taken againest them but /report isnt very effective at getting the job done, in which case put a csr on your friends list and should he/she be online have the CSR come and view the exploit in action, exploiters ruin this game beyond beileve.
Note: CSR WILL NOT, accept Screenshots or Videos as these can be doctored (as if anyone does this to report), one recommendation i can make it that should a BH come or you attack a Jedi, switch to your combat tab and have system messages enabled then /log, then you have chat logs of combat to back up what may be an exploit.
6. The "1.5x Stronger" Theory
Devs have stated that Post CU Jedi are ment to be 1.5x more powerful than anyone else, HOWEVER, their is an actual trick to their words, 1.5x power is OPINION, u CANNOT be so powerful compared to someone else, an example is:
Alets sayJedi MLS Mdef Healer 4x4x, knows little tonothing about his abilities and knows a little about PVP and bounty hunters, a SKILLED bounty hunter comes along, whips the floor with him, would the Jedi still be BY FACT still be 1.5x more powerful than the 1.0x Bounty Hunter that just Killed him?
The power is in Skill, granted your actual skills and template affect your power but without knowing how to us it you are about as powerful as that Cdef pistol that meatlump has.
This is were for jedi the issue of "Premium Pearls" come into play, a average saber post cu boots at about 550+Max damage and 25+ FC (stats taking from multiple Jedi i know) , now many jedi are fine with these "under powered" lightsabers, i have one similar to the above and am fine, but others with better sabers than me and the same template can be killed alot faster than i can be, now this is were 1.5x times comes in, again its SKILL and TACTICS (This being said i still would like the return of Prems as gives more strenght to the skilled)
7. Using the Forums
Once you've either killed or a Jedi or Bounty Hunter, if u want to scream, yell or express anger DO NOT bring it to the forums as this is were the 4 letter words may be disallowed but people can still be offended easily, GarVas code of conduct for the forums should be followed and please if you feel angry or upset then express it in your own home and not on the forums or in game as lets face it no one wants to hear you whine on about getting killed as no one could give a damn, Bounty Hunters should discuss their kills in an informative way to share tricks and tips to better aid other hunters, Jedi can also tell how to handle certain situations or how to beat said template effectively.
The forums are a source for creative dicussion and information, ooo and trade so lets stick to that
8. The GCW "AKA - The Dead War"
Many believe jedi to be the reason the GCW is dead, well we aint, lets face it GCW needs a HUGE revamp and the only reason Jedi-haters say we ruined it is becuase some Jedi teamup on lone players and gank, and seeing sabers and a overt tag is a GCW turn off, we in appearence discourage people from the GCW pvp as we are seem by some powerful or some Jedi are just jerks who gank other players.
The reason "jedi destroyed the GCW" is:
Glow Stick = PFFT i aint going overt, i'l get pwned
We are intimadating and it discourages GCW pvp
9.Possible ways to heal the community
1 - REMOVE XP LOSS
YES we need risk but the orignal point to this distasteful penelty was to prevent Cash farmers pre pub 20, since its all random remove it and more Jedi will stand and fight, oo and i saw the thread about BH arrives and they split cash, SO WHAT?! it keeps both dies happy and flame wars at a minimum, make the penelty extra pvp rating loss or something, but some people grief on xp loss as a MISSION
2 - Make some sort of a reward for jedi winning and that gives Jedi to stick around if they have not entered the FRS
3 - Give Bounty Hunters rewards after the 5 mark 10 mark 15 and so on
4 - Bring back prems to give some of the Post CU Jedi whats called a " Balanced weapon"
5 - The Reward Vs Risk system needs a revamp, heres a brief idea:
BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP rating
BH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350MOB kills (Edited: as some belivedi ment Jedi kills i changed this)to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)
JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End Loot
JEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
Messages to each Party in this Conflict
Force Sensitives:
First a word to all the Force Sensitives (and this goes for aspiring Bounty Hunters)aspiring to one day wield a rather overrated weapon, you must understand and accpet, that in joining the Shadow War you will meet some of the worst people you can think of, you will be hated by many many people and will be forced into a system of Player Vs Player combat often and thus please only become a Jedi once you have learnt to play this game and all its aspects, many of you may think or say " Pfft full temp Jedi and his BountyHunter alt, what a hypocrit" I'm a full temp Jedi and hate having become one tbh and my alt uses BH for the pve power.
Onceyoubecome a Jedi you will enter a world you cant simply pack up and leave, yesyou can surrender all your Jedi skills but then the force grind was for nothing? and you have wasted that amount of time in whichyou could be learning to play one the best and most classic MMOs out there.
I met a very recent Jedi whom from his day 1 was grinding FS, he AFK ground as he couldnt take a harder grind and has been put down the -10mil cap on xp as he cannot PVP AT ALL, and now loaths ever becoming one.
If you become Jedi to be better than someone who isnt a Jedi then by all rites you shouldnt be playing this game as Jedi is for dedicated players, roleplayers and people who want to gain better skills that can be used to help the community.
You can easily be a full temp MLS Mdef Healer 4x4x and get you arse handed to you by a non-jedi, its about skill, not skills.
You will enter a very real war ladies and gentlemen, this one is not fun, its cruel, and sick, this will for some make you want to leave this game, it can be extremely upseting at times, you can lose (and i say this in letters to make a point) four hundred and fifty creatures worth of exp in 5seconds. The people you met upon entering said conflict, may be honorable, but a good deal of the people you met will be the most arogant self loving and disgusting people you can imagine, i've had a bounty hunter whom didnt kill me as i escaped say that i was a n00b (yeah i play for a year and a half with a pvp rating of 1.4k+ and his -900) and various other comments on me, my family, and what he was gonna do to my friends.
Be sure that Jedi is right for you but please consider other aspects of this game before dedicating all your time to it.
And understand this, a Non-jedi can be just as powerful as a Jedi and before anyone quotes me, the Devs ahve stated that Jedi are to be 1.5x times stronger than anyone else, this is just Opinion.
Jedi:
The job that comes with Jedi is NOT to be l33t or a roxxor or any other miss spelled english words, it is END GAME content, with becoming a Jedi, you are not entitled to push other players around,nor areyoubetter than anyone else, you just have access to new Skills.
If you became a Jedi to "pwn" other players then you are not a Jedi and are infact a Force user with a ego, granted Dark jedi that follow the Sith code shouldnt be nice, but they should at least roleplay to being cruel evil people and not grief, to become a Dark jedi means your either aligned with the Empire by choice or you want to be a evil Jedi, Dark jedi get a unusual side of things as they are MENT to be mean (within reason)
Jedi should use there skills and knowledge to help others and enjoy this game to its full potential, not to make other players gameplay unenjoyable or show off to inflate their ego and showing off power which can just as easily be lost.
To be a Jedi.....it isnt to be powerful.....its to be more able bodied to help others, to help others i what Jedi should do even if you do not roleplay and if you are a dark jedi, then think inwards but consider how your acts may hurt others.
Guys...we got the worst.....everyone hates us.....Bounty Hunters love us.......lets face it we got a pretty shetty life, everyday, "Jedi killed the GCW" " Jedi are overpowered" "Jedi?! OMG WTH NERF!one1!?!" well, we get more nerf calls than anyone else, we endure more than any other profession as we are the unique Alpha Class, we are ment to have power but we dont. We are from a certain point of view ment to be hated by all in line with the films, but we generate so much hate and so do the bounty hunters, that its ripping the community apart.
YES, we are the most hated, and yet appealing profession in the game, BUT, i encourage all of you Jedi reading to know, we are here to stay, NO ONE had the rite to take away all your work, NO ONE has the rite to put you down because you chose to help someone using alpha class skills, YOU chose your skills, YOU use them as you see fit, At the end of the day, its what the person in front of the moniter is like.
Bounty Hunters:
Your Job is to HUNT down and kill every last jedi there is, do so, follow your ethics, morals and rules, BUT if you exploit, cheat or flame, that is not exaclty just as it is hardly possible in the Star Wars universe, guys ur hated by alot of people, help to mend this by stopping nerf calls or flame wars, you have power, its been proven time and time again that a BH that is will temp'd and has skill can kill anyone INCLUDING cloakers.
I have little to say to u chaps and chapettes as well, at the end of the day "Your not paid to be nice" but please have a level of respect as not to overstep whats considered fair play as this is a game after all, learn to play, you are hunters, a hunter wouldnt ask a lion to remove its teeth to make it easier for him, Jedi is the Master Hunter hunt, only the best can take a good Jedi, dont exploit as it risks your account and when they ban u which they will, they dont just dlete your char but ban your credit card so thats it gone, just play fair, respect others and kill your makrs swift and fast ^^
I just wanted to post this to give some food for thought to everyone, personaly, i couldnt care less if you flame or rant, cause this thread is written to make you all think and hopefully reduce the fighting (not in game) but flames and such, and being abusive and exploiting, and to show the force sensitive what they are getting into.
I just want to see this damned conflict and hate between our two professions end, it isnt healthy for a MMO, Please Read and take something onboard.........
Message Edited by XanKrieger on 09-09-2005 09:36 AM
Growlie
Freemind10101
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:00 pm
#3
9.Possible ways to heal the community
1 - REMOVE XP LOSS
YES we need risk but the orignal point to this distasteful penelty was to prevent Cash farmers pre pub 20, since its all random remove it and more Jedi will stand and fight, oo and i saw the thread about BH arrives and they split cash, SO WHAT?! it keeps both dies happy and flame wars at a minimum, make the penelty extra pvp rating loss or something, but some people grief on xp loss as a MISSION
2 - Make some sort of a reward for jedi winning and that gives Jedi to stick around if they have not entered the FRS
3 - Give Bounty Hunters rewards after the 5 mark 10 mark 15 and so on
4 - Bring back prems to give some of the Post CU Jedi whats called a " Balanced weapon"
5 - The Reward Vs Risk system needs a revamp, heres a brief idea:
BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP rating
BH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)
JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End Loot
JEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
I like everything but this. So you want bounty hunters to kill 350 jedi just to get a master box and we can lose it with one death. Then we have to grind it over again.On the other hand jedi lose 50k xp which can be grinded back by killing 50 bols. Correct me if I am wrong but that seems a wee bit extreme for bh'swhile jedi get off very easily.
e3ApeXX
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:21 pm
#4
9.Possible ways to heal the community
1 - REMOVE XP LOSS
YES we need risk but the orignal point to this distasteful penelty was to prevent Cash farmers pre pub 20, since its all random remove it and more Jedi will stand and fight, oo and i saw the thread about BH arrives and they split cash, SO WHAT?! it keeps both dies happy and flame wars at a minimum, make the penelty extra pvp rating loss or something, but some people grief on xp loss as a MISSION
2 - Make some sort of a reward for jedi winning and that gives Jedi to stick around if they have not entered the FRS
3 - Give Bounty Hunters rewards after the 5 mark 10 mark 15 and so on
4 - Bring back prems to give some of the Post CU Jedi whats called a " Balanced weapon"
5 - The Reward Vs Risk system needs a revamp, heres a brief idea:
BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP rating
BH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)
JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End Loot
JEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
Nice try but no cigar. You aren't going to change it so the BH loses mass amounts of XP... 
Orthell
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:27 pm
#5
Freemind10101 wrote:
9. Possible ways to heal the community1 - REMOVE XP LOSSYES we need risk but the orignal point to this distasteful penelty was to prevent Cash farmers pre pub 20, since its all random remove it and more Jedi will stand and fight, oo and i saw the thread about BH arrives and they split cash, SO WHAT?! it keeps both dies happy and flame wars at a minimum, make the penelty extra pvp rating loss or something, but some people grief on xp loss as a MISSION2 - Make some sort of a reward for jedi winning and that gives Jedi to stick around if they have not entered the FRS3 - Give Bounty Hunters rewards after the 5 mark 10 mark 15 and so on4 - Bring back prems to give some of the Post CU Jedi whats called a " Balanced weapon"5 - The Reward Vs Risk system needs a revamp, heres a brief idea:BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP ratingBH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End LootJEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
I like everything but this. So you want bounty hunters to kill 350 jedi just to get a master box and we can lose it with one death. Then we have to grind it over again. On the other hand jedi lose 50k xp which can be grinded back by killing 50 bols. Correct me if I am wrong but that seems a wee bit extreme for bh's while jedi get off very easily.
50k? Try 450k XP.
Checito
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:38 pm
#6
Snap Dude! I love the idea, but here is one part i'd like to go over
BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP rating
BH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)
Alright, Now i am down with losing PVP rating, Item Decay, But losing the MBH and what it requires to gain is something i disagree with.
A. Not all BH are for hunting jedi and actaully BH is not all about hunting jedi, so the master requirments for it would be unfair forcing pvp on a BH.
B. The master requirments would make it so you'd have to up BH for that kind of grind
C. I always viewed things like this, Jedi is a class that can easily become much more powerful then your average combat class. Thats why if you wish to reap the benefits you must accept the problems. You will be hunted, and they have little to nothing to lose so that makes it a risk for you and you alone. See when i get a Jedi mission even if its dead close i do my damn best to make sure the jedi dies or i die trying.
If there was such risk BH'ers would see powerful jedi and abort because they didnt wanna risk it. That would lower risk to jedi and i personaly think thats not a good idea.
Anyhow so you all know i have nothing against jedi, there some cool blokes. I just think that making the BH have risk defeats the purpose. Peace Ya'll
DarkShadow1313
Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:17 pm
#7
I agree with a lot things you said but this statment above has really touched me. BH need a penalty when they lose.They need to have some sort of fear besides losing a mark.
XanKrieger wrote:
"Wether You Like It Or Not, Your In The Middle Of A War Thats Been Raging For Near 3Years, Between the Jedi Orderand Bounty Hunters Guild" - Trigen "Xan" Krieger
9.Possible ways to heal the community
1 - REMOVE XP LOSS
YES we need risk but the orignal point to this distasteful penelty was to prevent Cash farmers pre pub 20, since its all random remove it and more Jedi will stand and fight, oo and i saw the thread about BH arrives and they split cash, SO WHAT?! it keeps both dies happy and flame wars at a minimum, make the penalty extra pvp rating loss or something, but some people grief on xp loss as a MISSION
2 - Make some sort of a reward for jedi winning and that gives Jedi to stick around if they have not entered the FRS
3 - Give Bounty Hunters rewards after the 5 mark 10 mark 15 and so on
4 - Bring back prems to give some of the Post CU Jedi whats called a " Balanced weapon"
5 - The Reward Vs Risk system needs a revamp, heres a brief idea:
BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP rating
BH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so don't complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)
JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End Loot
JEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
apprentice_of_eld
Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:58 pm
#8
BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP rating
BH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)
JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End Loot
JEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
??? Get rid of xp loss? Don't know how 50k jedi xp equates to losing an already learned skill, but ok....I do wonder what is the risk for BH in not fulfilling a contract, but that seems a bit ridiculous.
LandonRyuu
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:11 pm
#9
You sound like a BH plant, or maybe a hybrid plant whiner from the GCW and BH forums.
I stopped reading after point nunber eight which is:
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8. The GCW "AKA - The Dead War"
Many believe jedi to be the reason the GCW is dead, well we aint, lets face it GCW needs a HUGE revamp and the only reason Jedi-haters say we ruined it is becuase some Jedi teamup on lone players and gank, and seeing sabers and a overt tag is a GCW turn off, we in appearence discourage people from the GCW pvp as we are seem by some powerful or some Jedi are just jerks who gank other players.
The reason "jedi destroyed the GCW" is:
Glow Stick = PFFT i aint going overt, i'l get pwned
We are intimadating and it discourages GCW pvp
-----------------------------------------------------------
Nice how you tried to spin it so you didn't offend any Jedi but you offended me. Besides it also contradicts your 6th point which is:
------------------------------------------------------------
6. The "1.5x Stronger" Theory
Devs have stated that Post CU Jedi are ment to be 1.5x more powerful than anyone else, HOWEVER, their is an actual trick to their words, 1.5x power is OPINION, u CANNOT be so powerful compared to someone else, an example is:
A lets say Jedi MLS Mdef Healer 4x4x, knows little to nothing about his abilities and knows a little about PVP and bounty hunters, a SKILLED bounty hunter comes along, whips the floor with him, would the Jedi still be BY FACT still be 1.5x more powerful than the 1.0x Bounty Hunter that just Killed him?
The power is in Skill, granted your actual skills and template affect your power but without knowing how to us it you are about as powerful as that Cdef pistol that meatlump has.
This is were for jedi the issue of "Premium Pearls" come into play, a average saber post cu boots at about 550+Max damage and 25+ FC (stats taking from multiple Jedi i know) , now many jedi are fine with these "under powered" lightsabers, i have one similar to the above and am fine, but others with better sabers than me and the same template can be killed alot faster than i can be, now this is were 1.5x times comes in, again its SKILL and TACTICS (This being said i still would like the return of Prems as gives more strenght to the skilled)
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I'll get back to my own opinions on your 6th point after I finish my thoughts on the 8th.
The GCW is dead because there has never been and still is absolutely no lasting incentive to participate in it, also, high level characters are not forced into the GCW, and let's face it, a majority of the remaining players in this game are for the most part PvE carebears.
The truth is, if the GCW was anything more than grinding thousands of mobs so you can slap down a player base ASAP. More people would be participating in it.
Which isn't it funny that at its heart the GCW is really about PvE content what with PvE bases and faction grinding and the like. You kill thousands of PvE mobs so you can throw down a PvE base that can be destroyed by a PvE player. And this is supposed to be our great end game PvP content system?
There is no reward from going overt other than numbers. Even when you kill a player it doesn't balance out being ganked.
Lemme say this for the last time: THE GCW IS DEAD BECAUSE IT SUCKS. NOT BECAUSE OF JEDI.
Look at DAoC, you raid a fort there you GET something, you raid a relic fort you HELP YOUR ENTIRE REALM. You defend the fort with PvP, guards alone won't do the trick. SWG should use this as a model.
As for Jedi grouping up and ganking people I say a huge
SO WHAT?
I remember being ganked by groups of BHs spamming eye shot, I remember being ganked by groups of CMs (WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OVER POWERED), squadrons of Pikemen with uber DoT pikes, hundreds of def stacker Fencers. And of course I have been ganked by tons of Jedi too. However in the CU it hardly matters because Jedi are NOT more powerful than our other profession counter parts.
Even before the CU an easy remedy for Jedi was a couple def stackers or uber DoT pikes, or even a freakin CM for support.
My point: GETTING GANKED IS GETTING GANKED. YOU GOT GANKED MOVE ON. GO GET SOME OTHER PEOPLE. IT'S NOT THE PROFESSION THAT GANKED YOU IT'S THE FACT THAT 4 VS 1 WILL ALWAYS WIN.
Now point 6.
1.5x is not an opinion, it was a Dev statement regarding the level of power the Jedi profession should have regarding a REWARD for going through all it took to obtain Jedi in the first place.
I know, you're going to say getting Jedi is easy now, well maybe yes, about the only time obtaining Jedi was HARD was for the people that had to grind 32 holo profs. Even with double xp even with respec getting Jedi is still ALWAYS comparatively harder to obtain than a regular profession, nuff said.
A Bounty Hunter should have to be DAMN good even to beat a mediocre player Jedi. Allow the weak to be ganked, but a BH should not be able to stand toe to toe with a Jedi for 30-60 minute battles. They should either win in a short burst of a strong attack that catches the Jedi when he is weak and/or surprised or they should die trying. THAT is what 1.5x means.
I stopped reading after point nunber eight which is:
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8. The GCW "AKA - The Dead War"
Many believe jedi to be the reason the GCW is dead, well we aint, lets face it GCW needs a HUGE revamp and the only reason Jedi-haters say we ruined it is becuase some Jedi teamup on lone players and gank, and seeing sabers and a overt tag is a GCW turn off, we in appearence discourage people from the GCW pvp as we are seem by some powerful or some Jedi are just jerks who gank other players.
The reason "jedi destroyed the GCW" is:
Glow Stick = PFFT i aint going overt, i'l get pwned
We are intimadating and it discourages GCW pvp
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Nice how you tried to spin it so you didn't offend any Jedi but you offended me. Besides it also contradicts your 6th point which is:
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6. The "1.5x Stronger" Theory
Devs have stated that Post CU Jedi are ment to be 1.5x more powerful than anyone else, HOWEVER, their is an actual trick to their words, 1.5x power is OPINION, u CANNOT be so powerful compared to someone else, an example is:
A lets say Jedi MLS Mdef Healer 4x4x, knows little to nothing about his abilities and knows a little about PVP and bounty hunters, a SKILLED bounty hunter comes along, whips the floor with him, would the Jedi still be BY FACT still be 1.5x more powerful than the 1.0x Bounty Hunter that just Killed him?
The power is in Skill, granted your actual skills and template affect your power but without knowing how to us it you are about as powerful as that Cdef pistol that meatlump has.
This is were for jedi the issue of "Premium Pearls" come into play, a average saber post cu boots at about 550+Max damage and 25+ FC (stats taking from multiple Jedi i know) , now many jedi are fine with these "under powered" lightsabers, i have one similar to the above and am fine, but others with better sabers than me and the same template can be killed alot faster than i can be, now this is were 1.5x times comes in, again its SKILL and TACTICS (This being said i still would like the return of Prems as gives more strenght to the skilled)
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I'll get back to my own opinions on your 6th point after I finish my thoughts on the 8th.
The GCW is dead because there has never been and still is absolutely no lasting incentive to participate in it, also, high level characters are not forced into the GCW, and let's face it, a majority of the remaining players in this game are for the most part PvE carebears.
The truth is, if the GCW was anything more than grinding thousands of mobs so you can slap down a player base ASAP. More people would be participating in it.
Which isn't it funny that at its heart the GCW is really about PvE content what with PvE bases and faction grinding and the like. You kill thousands of PvE mobs so you can throw down a PvE base that can be destroyed by a PvE player. And this is supposed to be our great end game PvP content system?
There is no reward from going overt other than numbers. Even when you kill a player it doesn't balance out being ganked.
Lemme say this for the last time: THE GCW IS DEAD BECAUSE IT SUCKS. NOT BECAUSE OF JEDI.
Look at DAoC, you raid a fort there you GET something, you raid a relic fort you HELP YOUR ENTIRE REALM. You defend the fort with PvP, guards alone won't do the trick. SWG should use this as a model.
As for Jedi grouping up and ganking people I say a huge
SO WHAT?
I remember being ganked by groups of BHs spamming eye shot, I remember being ganked by groups of CMs (WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OVER POWERED), squadrons of Pikemen with uber DoT pikes, hundreds of def stacker Fencers. And of course I have been ganked by tons of Jedi too. However in the CU it hardly matters because Jedi are NOT more powerful than our other profession counter parts.
Even before the CU an easy remedy for Jedi was a couple def stackers or uber DoT pikes, or even a freakin CM for support.
My point: GETTING GANKED IS GETTING GANKED. YOU GOT GANKED MOVE ON. GO GET SOME OTHER PEOPLE. IT'S NOT THE PROFESSION THAT GANKED YOU IT'S THE FACT THAT 4 VS 1 WILL ALWAYS WIN.
Now point 6.
1.5x is not an opinion, it was a Dev statement regarding the level of power the Jedi profession should have regarding a REWARD for going through all it took to obtain Jedi in the first place.
I know, you're going to say getting Jedi is easy now, well maybe yes, about the only time obtaining Jedi was HARD was for the people that had to grind 32 holo profs. Even with double xp even with respec getting Jedi is still ALWAYS comparatively harder to obtain than a regular profession, nuff said.
A Bounty Hunter should have to be DAMN good even to beat a mediocre player Jedi. Allow the weak to be ganked, but a BH should not be able to stand toe to toe with a Jedi for 30-60 minute battles. They should either win in a short burst of a strong attack that catches the Jedi when he is weak and/or surprised or they should die trying. THAT is what 1.5x means.
Message Edited by LandonRyuu on 09-08-2005 04:13 PM
arcangelsolo
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:28 pm
#10
AWESOME POST!!!! well except for the bh losing so much(losing a mbh is kinda harsh don't you think?). i say make it even as xp goes. or the brs maybe. other than that i am glad to see someone out there who agrees with my idea of what a jedi should be doing thanks for giving me hope that we may yet save this game .
Iawalein
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:34 pm
#11
Your post is well thought out and supported. Does anyone else hear the sound of a mod finger heading towards the deletion button and the smell of butane from the posting community?
Unfortunately, the forums don't seem to be a great place to get any action for issues that players see in the game. They are more a place to post and be scorned, or if it runs against what the mods feel is productive (in their estimation at least) it gets deleted.
You have some good issues and seem to have given each of your points good thought (you even covered my motivations for having a MBH on a different server-I don't PvP, but have found that the combination of skills makes it the newest FoTM). I hope that the community reads it and has a new way to think about the issue.
Unfortunately, the forums don't seem to be a great place to get any action for issues that players see in the game. They are more a place to post and be scorned, or if it runs against what the mods feel is productive (in their estimation at least) it gets deleted.
You have some good issues and seem to have given each of your points good thought (you even covered my motivations for having a MBH on a different server-I don't PvP, but have found that the combination of skills makes it the newest FoTM). I hope that the community reads it and has a new way to think about the issue.
Iawalein
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:40 pm
#12
Freemind10101 wrote:
9.Possible ways to heal the community1 - REMOVE XP LOSSYES we need risk but the orignal point to this distasteful penelty was to prevent Cash farmers pre pub 20, since its all random remove it and more Jedi will stand and fight, oo and i saw the thread about BH arrives and they split cash, SO WHAT?! it keeps both dies happy and flame wars at a minimum, make the penelty extra pvp rating loss or something, but some people grief on xp loss as a MISSION2 - Make some sort of a reward for jedi winning and that gives Jedi to stick around if they have not entered the FRS3 - Give Bounty Hunters rewards after the 5 mark 10 mark 15 and so on4 - Bring back prems to give some of the Post CU Jedi whats called a " Balanced weapon"5 - The Reward Vs Risk system needs a revamp, heres a brief idea:BH WINS: Payout + Bonus + BRS Xp? + Random High End NPC Loot + PVP ratingBH LOSES: Lost PVP rating + Item Decay + Loses MBH Box (takes 350 jedi kills to fill a MBH master box, so dont complain as Jedi grind is 10x anyone elses)JEDI WINS: Jedi Xp + PVP Rating + Random High End LootJEDI LOSES: Mild xp lose (could be 50k, thats a less than stressful lose) + Item Decay + Loses Visability
I like everything but this. So you want bounty hunters to kill 350 jedi just to get a master box and we can lose it with one death. Then we have to grind it over again.On the other hand jedi lose 50k xp which can be grinded back by killing 50 bols. Correct me if I am wrong but that seems a wee bit extreme for bh'swhile jedi get off very easily.
XP loss for a jedi is a minimum of 25k, and most will lose more around the line of 350k (the partially finished template).
I HOPE that this was meant in exaggeration. Killing 50 bols would yield somewhere just over 50k. A bol is approximately 1100 Jedi XP (if character is CL 80 and the Bol is CL 82). Group bonus can raise that somewhat, but it would take a bol giving 7,000 XP per kill to achieve this.
This IS the rate at which non-jedi players accrue XP, and if you really think that this is the rate that jedi accrue XP you are sadly misinformed. Jedi XP is in the range of 1/6th the XP of a standard profession, and we don't get the "combat bonus". (Remember that the fourth branch of all combat professions is trained solely with combat XP, and even though it accrues slower than weapon XP, it usually fills in the first three tiers plus half of the fourth by the time that the remaining skills are trained. Jedi fill ALL of the branches with one type of XP-there are no "bonus" trees.)
Message Edited by Iawalein on 09-08-2005 04:41 PM
Shinky
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:57 pm
#13
k now that everyones pointed out that the bh loss penality is too extreme, lets not point out the same thing over and over again.
When a bh loses, they should not be able to hunt jedis for a said amount of time, to in a mild way, control the bh population.
Jedis still need to lose xp, but not 50k and not 450k. Truthfully, you should lose around 50k-250k from 0sp invested to box from full templated, andremoving a top skill at a 500k xp lossat full template.
This way, only unskilled players will be penalized at full templated, and all grinding padies would stay and fight to gain bh fighting experience.
Plus, the loot idea is brillant. If jedis could loot after a bh win, EVERY jedi would stay and fight.
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