Jedi Archive
Thread: Have your say
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Rostiea
Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:50 am
#1
I would appreciate your serious opinions regarding the Combat Upgrade without abuse towards any of SOE etc.
Please respond following:
1) Are you satisfied with the CU?
2) Do you think some other combat system could have been more effective?
3) Do you agree the PRE-CU needed changing to "Move With The Times?"
4) Do you have any ideas which could help SOE improve their combat system instead of causing peoples to cease their accounts?
Message Edited by Rostiea on 10-07-2005 05:31 PM
TireeG2
Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:54 am
#2
1) Yes
2) Of course, always room for improvement
3) Again, yes. But I believe it was taken a little bit too far, they didn't need to do so much. I would not so so much say it needed to change with the times though. Players just became too good at the systems in place, different aspects of combat stacked together (namely buffs+super armor+heavy defense stacking) to make an unbalanced system.
4) Nope, people quit all the time. Devs keep doing what you're doing, keep adding content and trying to make the game as balanced to everyone as possible.
Message Edited by TireeG2 on 10-07-2005 10:57 AM
p897t98
Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:58 am
#3
1. no
2. pre CU system
3. no, we have most certainly gone backwards
4. roll back servers to the day of the CU.
2. pre CU system
3. no, we have most certainly gone backwards
4. roll back servers to the day of the CU.
Mad_Mick
Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:07 am
#4
ok
pvp combat isnt as fast'd paced and fun as we were told it would be (44 min pvp is not fun its boring)
the whole cl idea has caused the death of jedi (now u CANT go get half decent xp solo like a lot of us did on quiet corners of endor/yavin) becouse of the no xp cl trap jedi are now forced to mission from a term which means towns/npc's, with the issue of group hunts bringing in high xp the whole 'keeping off the terms' idea is lost in the rush for the next lair to spin
other than that cu is fine
SlothDroid
Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:08 am
#5
1) Are you satisfied with the CU? No, I find it slower and more boring than the original system. Hunting in the wilds (not mission based hunting) is now impossible.
2) Do you think some other combat system could have been more effective? PreCU was fine, some balancing was needed. I disagreed with the change as did 80% of players who tested it on TC, as found in an SOE survey at the time. The emailthey sendstating customer satisfaction as positive was insulting, as was the Smed post to round up complainers. The game was broken and unbalanced at the time of patching. It came to a point where they were spamming system messages to help people get to grips with the game, but neglected to supply any online documentation. Although now more balanced, the 'fast-paced combat system' we were promised is no-where to be seen.
3) Do you agree the PRE-CU needed changing to "Move With The Times?" Not at all. See Q's 1 and 2 above. Better Customer Servicewould have been a better start.
4) Do you have any ideas which could help SOE improve their combat system instead of causing peoples to cease their accounts? Yes. Listen to what your customers tell you, and perform proper surveys in game as this will obtain result only from those who actually play. Fix bugs in the game before spending precious resources on trying to get another £15-20out if me for an expansion I would rarely play (i.e. completed quests, now useless).
I am only still here because I stupidly paid for 12 months subscription 2 weeks before the CU
Message Edited by SlothDroid on 10-07-2005 10:13 PM
CPA
Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:08 am
#6
1) Are you satisfied with the CU?
Overall, no. Combat is relatively the same as far as I'm concerned. I evaluate a target and decide whether or not I'm up to the task. What has bothered me more and more recently is the fact that I MUST group to get any kind of XP. When you are on at 2AM, there are very few groups available. I feel that my gameplay has been limited because of the inability to solo lairs effectively.
2) Do you think some other combat system could have been more effective?
This is the only MMORPG I've ever played, and probably the last, so I'm not really qualified to answer.
3) Do you agree the PRE-CU needed changing to "Move With The Times?"
Yes. The combat was set up in a way that drove you to a certain template depending on what type of combat you wanted to engage in. Any player could make a template that would allow them to defeat any NPC/MOB solo. I don't necessarily agree though with the watering down of all professions to a number based modifier via Combat Level and everyone having the same skills, just under different names.
4) Do you have any ideas which could help SOE improve their combat system instead of causing peoples to cease their accounts?
The only thing that has ever enraged me enough to want to quit was XP loss due to a bug. I can control being on the terminals, etc, but shuttling from a Player City right out of the game, then logging back in to an LD kill is just not right. SOE needs to fix bugs before adding content, or stop punishing players for trying to play their "working as intended" version of Star Wars.
Corran85
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:01 am
#7
1) Yes
2) Probally....
3) Definately
4) Dont know.....its going to happen no matter what
Iakimo
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:03 am
#8
1. Am I satisfied with the CU? No! While on one hand, the core system itself is an improvement as far as the actual mechanics of the combat and the game balance when matched up with similar-level opponents, the thing was saddled with a completely unnecesary and counterproductive level-based damage-multiplier system that in my opinion completely ruins much of the galaxy. Almost the entiresetting is completely pointless to explore now. It's either"instant death" to low-level toons, or a complete cakewalk to higher-level toons. Finding that happy middle ground where fun, challenging gameplay will occur is often an exercise in surfing these forums. And that is a travesty, when the entire galaxy was my playground before the level-based system was foisted upon us. This game would be improved a thousandfold by the elimination of this one horribly misguided alteration. Right now, we have a level-based system pasted into what once was a skill-based galaxy, and the result, without awhiff of exaggeration,can only be described as absurd.
Rostiea wrote:
I would appreciate your serious opinions without abuse towards any of SOE etc.
Please respond following:
1) Are you satisfied with the CU?
2) Do you think some other combat system could have been more effective?
3) Do you agree the PRE-CU needed changing to "Move With The Times?"
4) Do you have any ideas which could help SOE improve their combat system instead of causing peoples to cease their accounts?
2. Do I think an alternative system could have been more effective? Yes. In addition to scrapping the level-based multipliers, a system that's more in line with what the devs originally floated as their idea for the CU system would have been a better fit for this game.
Originally, the devs floated some hints about a system that involved separate bars for actions performed and damage taken for each of the three HAM bars. In other words, players would drain "action HAM" bars when they did something themselves, while combat damage would be taken from "damage HAM" bars. This separation of action costs and damage received would have given the devsa pretty effective means to resolve the original design flaw of the pre-CU HAM system: the ability of doctors to perpetually heal themselves back when the game was still in beta testing.
But, the core mechanic of the current combat system is at least functional... or would be, if it weren't saddled with the level-based-multiplier abomination.
3. Do I think the pre-CU sytem needed to be changed to "move with the times"? Yes, although putting it this way trivializes the fundamentally flawed nature of the pre-CU combat system. The game didn't need to "move with the times;" it needed to be fixed.
In 2003, the devs reached for the stars and tried to publish a game with a genuinely innovative combat system. It wasthe first system of it's type, with essentially a "health" pool and two types of "mana" pools (Action and Mind) to draw from. Brilliant, but as I said, fundamentally flawed, in that doctors could at first perpetually heal themselves (back in Beta testing). And then that same Mind bar becamethe target du jour as a result of the hasty "fix" in Beta of removing Mind healing from the game. The fundamental flaw was inverted into an exact opposite kind of fundamental flaw.
And also, when composite armor and high-defense templates(the "stacker" templates) becamewidespread, the quality of the in-game challenges started to deteriorate.
4. Do I have any ideas for improving the game? YES!! Just in case someone missed my point, I will restate it: DUMP THE LEVEL-BASED DAMAGE-MULTIPLIER SYSTEM! This game'sworlds were originallybuilt for a skill-based player system. Unless the devs want to completely restructure the entire galaxy, they will be stuck with a game that offers only a fraction of the gameplay and play value it once offered --and should still be offering. I really am at a loss as to why they seem to have such difficulty figuring this out.
A second concept I would pass along here is a re-thinking of the idea of game balance between the Jedi professions and the non-Jedi professions. Right now, the two sets of professions are more-or-less balanced in gameplay, but horribly imbalanced in terms of the effort required to create these finished templates. Right now, Jedi have been nerfed into unrecognizability -- theysimply feel like "just another profession" in terms of their gameplay, albeit one that takes a ridiculous amount of time to complete. Conversely, there is no sense of accomplishment accompanying the creation of a conventional template that can compete with them. Bounty Hunter/Combat Medic? Ho-hum... MBH/Master Rifleman/CM 4-0-0-0...? Yeah, no problem; I can bang one out in a week. As long as we cangrind outJedi-killer toons in a matter of a few days, the whole Jedi experience will be cheapened... as will the act of defeating one in battle. Nerfing Jedi was the exact OPPOSITE of what needed to be done to balance this game. Rather, giving the conventional professions an upgrade path beyond Elite Master -- paths every bit as arduous and rewarding as the Jedi path, giving them the skills toface Jedi asmore-or-less their equals-- should have been the goal. A few devs dropped hints at this past summer's Fan Fest that they were at least thinking this idea over; maybe something will come of it eventually.
The bottom line is, 2006 is approaching rapidly... and with it, the launch of Lord of the Rings Online by Turbine, Inc. SOE has a great deal to fear in the shadow of this looming giant.
Rostiea
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:28 am
#9
Would you agree with the idea of making normal players vs jedi = not much of a chance? and BH vs JEDI = EQUAL.. This would mean its the whole players tactics = the winner
OSWC
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:31 am
#10
Rostiea wrote:
I would appreciate your serious opinions without abuse towards any of SOE etc.
Please respond following:
1) Are you satisfied with the CU? No....No and No.
2) Do you think some other combat system could have been more effective? The only problem with the Pre-cu was the DOTS and the defense stackers. Other than that I liked the fact that you could target different pools.
3) Do you agree the PRE-CU needed changing to "Move With The Times?" See above.
4) Do you have any ideas which could help SOE improve their combat system instead of causing peoples to cease their accounts? No even going to waste my time with this one as we all know they don't care about what we want.
Kyodor
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:32 am
#11
This would mean its the whole players tactics = the winner
Unfortunately, this utopian idea of no more BH/Jedi nerf calls seems like something far, far in the distance; and I don't believe it's just my cynicism.
/agree with TireeG2.
What I would have preferred, is the revamp of the HAM system: DoTs, buffs, and that would have been fine. Not all this EQ2-engine stuff.
Unfortunately, this utopian idea of no more BH/Jedi nerf calls seems like something far, far in the distance; and I don't believe it's just my cynicism.
/agree with TireeG2.
What I would have preferred, is the revamp of the HAM system: DoTs, buffs, and that would have been fine. Not all this EQ2-engine stuff.
Rostiea
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:34 am
#12
Kyodor wrote:
This would mean its the whole players tactics = the winner
Unfortunately, this utopian idea of no more BH/Jedi nerf calls seems like something far, far in the distance; and I don't believe it's just my cynicism.
/agree with TireeG2.
What I would have preferred, is the revamp of the HAM system: DoTs, buffs, and that would have been fine. Not all this EQ2-engine stuff.
I agree completely, Kyodor, would you post your opinion please of the topic in question? Thanks
CURBhater
Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:34 am
#13
I hope you realize only whiners will reply in this thread
CU may not be what you guys expected but Jedi certainly aint as bad as some of you claim. Learn to play your templates so you dont have to spend time on the jedi forums/BH/CM forums looking for stuff to nerf
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