Image Designer Archive
Thread: I love most of the new changes but THE TIMERS WILL KILL THE PROFESSION
Sorry for the long post, but this has been weighing on my mind for some time and I really would like to get my thoughts into the forums in the hope that someone who has the ability to change things will consider my point of view. I also invite comments and criticisms from others in the profession. Please not that I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments but I do feel strongly about this post and do not assume that everyone will agree with me. While I love the GUI changes, the payment system, the addition of colors and options like holo-emotes and even stat-migration, I think that the addition of timers only benefit those who are already a Master ID and will dissuade others from getting to master forcing them to abandon ID profession altogether.
The timers make it prohibitively difficult to achieve the best levels of the profession. Folks who were able to reach master prior to the publish are in a position to raise prices quite a bit as they are the only ones who will benefit from the timers since they new ID’s won’t be able to compete with the Masters who can do everything (recent prices lists circulating in the forums seem to bear this out). I think that timers will destroy the profession and I think it’s even worse to have timers for non-masters only as this will only reinforce their superiority. In the end, the only way for a new ID to compete is to stand outside the tents and offer to give away their services for free in order to slowly gain the xp they need to achieve master. As a result, the profession will become a commodity where no one will be able to actually earn any money and the interest in it will plummet. I think there have been other professions that have suffered the same fate. It may just be my perception but Medic comes to mind; it seems that since tips are rarely given anymore most medics have moved to Doctor in order to buff for money. Once the ID profession collapses, I don’t think the ability to stat-migrate will be enough to keep up the interest in it. I think, in the end, the timers will make the profession worse off than it was prior to the publish and I’d very much like to stop that from happening.
I think that the purpose of the timers (as well as changes to the Jedi system) was to stop all the grinding; to change it from the "easiest profession to achieve" to one more in line with others. I, personally, think that grinding has somewhat of a bad rap. Let me first say that I have been an ID in the past (before the publish) and liked it a lot. I ultimately gave it up because, like others, I wanted to try something else and I felt that the profession was too incidental to the warrior-focus of the game. I also thought that it didn't allow me to make enough money to justify the point cost. It was a really fun profession though and I really enjoyed it while I had it. Hearing about the upcoming changes, I started a new character and began grinding my way toward master. Unfortunately, I didn't finish before the publish (currently at 4,4,3,2) and now I don't think that I ever will.
When I first got ID (before the publish) I used a combination of doing it the old-fashioned way (just ID'ing people who requested it) and by grinding. My personal experience was (and yours may be different) that many people did not want to trust me to ID them unless I was a Master because (A) I may not be able to get them back to the way they looked at the time of the change and (B) they felt that they might be missing something by not going to a Master since I didn't have all the skills to change absolutely everything. As a result, gaining xp was difficult through a natural process and gaining money was nearly impossible. I decided to just grind away with a friend and once I made it to Master, I really started having fun and actually made some money. I also came to find out that most (but not all) of the ID'ers I spoke with also seemed to grind to Master for similar reasons. From this, I came to the conclusion that grinding was a part of the profession and, in fact, a part of every profession to a certain degree. Continually shooting creatures to earn marksman xp may not *seem* like grinding but it certainly is a repetitive and there's a reason you see so many camping out at noob-spawns... every profession requires a certain amount of rather dull "dues-paying" or grinding to achieve them. The only difference was the ID could be "ground" rather quickly compared to others. Was this such a bad thing? I don’t think so… It’s not like you couldn’t move around the galaxy without tripping over Master ID’s. Even on Corronet or Naboo, you might not come across any IDs for a long stretch of time. In short, I think we had rather few ID’s before the publish. The new content seemed to be a way to raise interest in the profession and increase the number of folks interested in it (similar to Chef and Droid Engineer). However, the timers will destroy that interest, and quickly.
Because of the timers, the ID profession is now the most monotonous, tedious profession to get and it will take me so long just to finish those last 3 boxes that I'm considering dropping ID altogether. I don't think it’s possible (or necessary) to eliminate grinding and I think the timers have only made the profession unbearable. I can’t even imagine what it must be like for someone who is just starting out. And what about those folks who want to master Entertainer? Are they going to have the patience or the time to get up those four ID blocks in the tree? I’m beginning to doubt it! The only way I can compete again the pre-existing Master ID’s, as I’ve said above, is to give away my ID capabilities so that I can reach the Master level and compete with those who can do everything possible. If everyone does this, no one will be able to make any money and the profession will collapse as everyone will abandon it for professions that can sustain them in the game (or worse, they will leave the game).
Three more quick things and then I’m done, I swear! First, every other profession can use in-game macros to help them and now ID cannot. I think this is wrong and further penalizes the IDer. It also seems an odd choice to make on the part of developers but it is clearly necessary to remove the macro part of the profession in order to maintain the timers. Second, I’ve been knocked off the system on several occasions while waiting to click the accept button due to the timers. I can only guess that this is happening because of some time-out function in the server but it has happened repeatedly and at various times (not always the same ID session). Last, I know that the current system allows you to revert to normal (this was a point I brought up earlier about not being able to compete with Master’s who can do this) but I’ve found that often my client s don’t know they want to revert until after many, many, many changes!
Whew, I feel much better now! Thanks for taking the time to read my post and please feel free to respond with any comments or criticisms. Please keep in mind, though, that I didn’t write this to be inflammatory or to upset anyone so please keep that in mind if you don’t agree with me!
Thanks!
Sir_Voor wrote:
/disagree
I feel timers will save this profession, ID was the only profession that players would only grind their way to master and not play their way to master.The removal of timers will result in the return to grinding. Yes the gain needs to be faster but NOT by removing timers, instead INCREASE the XP per ID.
You could have sumed up your long post in two sentences:
Im a hologrinder. The timers now prevent me from mastering this boring profession.
Read you loud and clear. Now shoo.
Actually, I'm not a hologrinder. I have absolutely no interest in becoming a jedi. In my message I made a point that I think grinding is a part of every profession to some degree, it may just take different forms. I am specifically interested levelling up as quickly as possible since this is my second time at it. After having been a master once, I'm left wondering how absolutely new folks must feel about the timers. Based on some of the feedback in the forums so far, I don't think they are well perceived. Eventhe Masters seem against them, exceptof course for the new folks trying to attainMaster too.
I also don't think it's a boring profession at all; I thought it was fun the first time and I wanted to giveit a try again.I think you are taking my post in a way that is not intended. Please don't ask me to shoosimply because I do not agree with you. And I did apologize for the long post up front!
Nouva wrote:
You could have sumed up your long post in two sentences:
Im a hologrinder. The timers now prevent me from mastering this boring profession.
Read you loud and clear. Now shoo.
If the poster was a hologrinder, do you think he/she would have spent the time to create this thread? I doubt it. They could have been "grinding". Anyhow, this person does have some concerns and explanations to why they feel as they do.
Give them a chance, try reading the entire post and be critical if you don't agree, but not condescending.
Howdy folks ![]()
I was just wondering around the forums as a lost soul and came upon yall's fine thread.
I would like to point out that ID, the way I understand it, is now the longest profession to master next to Merchant.
I have an alt grinding up AS. The journey from novice to Master is 8hrs doing Mabri ChestPlates...
8 hrs folks is all it takes... the longest profession (crafting) to master is WS. I hear that is a 22hrs grind. The rest seem to fall inbetween AS and WS.
So, if it truly takes an entire week to master a profession that likely cannot make as much money in a monthas my "not yet master AS" can make now in a day something is seriously wrong.
/rant on
Now, it is the GD's DEVs who brought this grinding hell upon us all with their RUSHED Jedi system. They wh0red out the game to make a few bucks for the holidays and now are, in a way, punishing us players who are only attempting play within the system as they designed it!!
What do you think is going to happen when you have to master 4 holo profession and an unknown silent one? You have people, who just want to play Jedi, grinding like hell through professions ruining it for all of us "serious" crafters.
Is it the players fault? NO! It is the DEVs fault. It is their system THEY designed. What the hell did they think was going to happen when they implemented the Jedi system in its current "grind" format?
Personally, timers need to go until they push their little money child Jedi revamp out. After that, while I'm all for putting the breaks on reaching master in less then a day, I think SOE needs to go about it in a different way.
Instead of the current timer they need to put a time on the advancement of each box. This slows the advancement down yet, at the same time, doesnt force people to spent time sitting around twiddling their thumbs staring at the screen!
I pay 30buck a month to have fun yall. To get away from my RL... The last thing I need is to sit their and have to deal with SOE time sinks! They need to put a higher premium on the common player's time!
Under my suggested system you can get your daily grind out of the way and they move on and enjoy other aspects of the game.... Ok, what other aspects of the game you may be asking... Well that is another topic for another rant ![]()
/rant off
Smokinghole wrote:
ah, once again the master ID thinks it's great that nobody else will ever make it to master too.
Who said That? Speaking for myself I want Mastering ID to be fun and playable, instead of something you just do to get master. Yes I want to take longer then 30mins, but I also think 100+ hours is just as bad, to me ( 2mins x 10 per box ) sounds more fun then ( mindless clicking x 1,000). Making itfunwill lead to more IDers and not make sure that nobody else will ever make it to master.
Increasing the XP per session isn't going to help. You still have to deal with a boring 2/5 min timer, half if you are in a tent. So its ok for a session to take just as long as waiting for a shuttle? I don't think so.
C'mon people, get it through your thick heads. Nobody likes to wait. Even my doc hates to wait when applying healing for wounds, damage is not that big of a deal, but with applying wounds I already am twiddling my thumbs, waiting isn't fun. You want to have those wounds healed and the player on his/her way. Not wasting time waiting for you to be able to aply the next bandage or enhancer.
The timer is just an easy way to deal with more serious issues. They removed the ability to macro ID because it was the easiest fix. Actually make the macro's work in a satisfying manner meant they had to use their brains. No, instead they just slap everyone with timers.
People get tired of timers, of waiting. Severely reduce the timer to have it more in line with say docs (its an elite profession after all), and increase the xp you need to gain a level. It now takes 100k per tree, that's 400k from novice ID to Master. I wouldn't mind going through the double amount of xp required if they seriously reduced the timers or remove them alltogether.
Sir_Voor wrote:
ID was the only profession that players would only grind their way to master and not play their way to master.
So you've never been inside a med center, then?
Hint: tumbling macro. ![]()