Image Designer Archive

Ok the timer is bogus and everyone knows it. Making MID should be at bare minimum as easy as making Doc. So here is the real plan. Combine Tattoos with Body Forms. Make the 4th tree a Crafting tree. The things crafted will be supplies needed and related to the ID profession.

For Example

Box 1 Basic Supplies
Beginner Scissors.
Basic Hair Dye.
Basic Tattoo Ink (Gun).
Feel free to name something for Body Sculpting.


This gives it more of a feel of doing something that is ID related. You cannot dye someones hair without dye. The supplies would be needed to change someones hair. So you can remove the timer based on the fact it becomes so much like making any of the medicine classes, components are needed and the grind will be there but in a necessary way.

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Pluto9Moon wrote:
Ok the timer is bogus and everyone knows it. Making MID should be at bare minimum as easy as making Doc. So here is the real plan. Combine Tattoos with Body Forms. Make the 4th tree a Crafting tree. The things crafted will be supplies needed and related to the ID profession.

For Example

Box 1 Basic Supplies
Beginner Scissors.
Basic Hair Dye.
Basic Tattoo Ink (Gun).
Feel free to name something for Body Sculpting.


This gives it more of a feel of doing something that is ID related. You cannot dye someones hair without dye. The supplies would be needed to change someones hair. So you can remove the timer based on the fact it becomes so much like making any of the medicine classes, components are needed and the grind will be there but in a necessary way.

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This sort of change would effectively make it impossible to add any new galaxies in the future.

If a Novice Entertainer skill requires items crafted by an Image Designer to advance... Well, it'd just be impossible to become an Image Designer on a new galaxy, and impossible to start on the path to Image Designer without having some other profession to finacially support you.

And if you do make them available to be crafted at the novice levels, you'd still need to give Entertainers Survey skills [the Musician gets a starter 'tool' to begin with], or else it'd be a level of dependance that's just too frustrating to start a novice skill-tree [that doesn't happen to be Politican, which is a special case anyway].

Now, this idea did come up in another form, gaining crafted tools to enable NEW features.

That said, I don't like the idea of turning a socializing/service profession into a crafting profession. I quite enjoy the fact that I don't need to scourge across all planets to get the best resources for my tools, or just 'ANY' resources for my tools [see high end stimpacks]. And if the quality of resources/tools has no net effect, you're just imposing crafting for the sake of crafting, not any real net benefit.

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Reiella wrote:
This sort of change would effectively make it impossible to add any new galaxies in the future.

If a Novice Entertainer skill requires items crafted by an Image Designer to advance... Well, it'd just be impossible to become an Image Designer on a new galaxy, and impossible to start on the path to Image Designer without having some other profession to finacially support you.

And if you do make them available to be crafted at the novice levels, you'd still need to give Entertainers Survey skills [the Musician gets a starter 'tool' to begin with], or else it'd be a level of dependance that's just too frustrating to start a novice skill-tree [that doesn't happen to be Politican, which is a special case anyway].

Now, this idea did come up in another form, gaining crafted tools to enable NEW features.

That said, I don't like the idea of turning a socializing/service profession into a crafting profession. I quite enjoy the fact that I don't need to scourge across all planets to get the best resources for my tools, or just 'ANY' resources for my tools [see high end stimpacks]. And if the quality of resources/tools has no net effect, you're just imposing crafting for the sake of crafting, not any real net benefit.

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Reiella,
I fail to see where it makes it impossible to start new galaxies. I did not propose any change for the Ent portion of ID. That could remain the same. Rangers do not "get" survey skills for their more advanced tents.

To answer the "social class" argument of Entertainer. I have seen way too any Entertainers demand tips or I would be denied service. Really extreme for a "social class". If there is a way to make profit people will do it. If it were merely a social class then you have two whole minutes to talk outside and ID Tent, one minute inside and ten minutes for stat migrations. So why not have MID under the same timers. What is fair for one is fair for another.

This is a more than fair proposal to remove the timers but to add some grindage to the class. There are posts on how much to charge. For some of these items such as scissors or some sort of laser hair trimmer at advanced stages, they would be durable items. Things like dye are not crafting just to be crafting, it is a reality. Hair just does not change colors because someone snaps their fingers. If you hold that true for your class, then why not just change medicine to do the same.

I am sorry if this comes off as facetious. It isn't that you dislike the idea so much as it you do not give any credible feedback as to why not. Medics do not like grinding meds. So we should just revisit every profession and make it zero timer with no needed components to do the class. Pistolers can use their fingers and point without any gun in their hands like 5 year olds playing cops and robbers, shouting BANG! BANG! They do not want to travel all over the universe looking for the best weapons either.

Nice concept. I think it merits discussion. And you do make a nice point that ID seems to be the one profession that requires nothing to make money.

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NoseNugget wrote:
Nice concept. I think it merits discussion. And you do make a nice point that ID seems to be the one profession that requires nothing to make money.

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Nothing but time. And considering the virtual nature of everything else in SWG, it requires no more or less than any of the other professions. That however, is a discussion for another day I think.

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Pluto9Moon wrote:

Reiella,
I fail to see where it makes it impossible to start new galaxies. I did not propose any change for the Ent portion of ID. That could remain the same. Rangers do not "get" survey skills for their more advanced tents.

To answer the "social class" argument of Entertainer. I have seen way too any Entertainers demand tips or I would be denied service. Really extreme for a "social class". If there is a way to make profit people will do it. If it were merely a social class then you have two whole minutes to talk outside and ID Tent, one minute inside and ten minutes for stat migrations. So why not have MID under the same timers. What is fair for one is fair for another.

This is a more than fair proposal to remove the timers but to add some grindage to the class. There are posts on how much to charge. For some of these items such as scissors or some sort of laser hair trimmer at advanced stages, they would be durable items. Things like dye are not crafting just to be crafting, it is a reality. Hair just does not change colors because someone snaps their fingers. If you hold that true for your class, then why not just change medicine to do the same.

I am sorry if this comes off as facetious. It isn't that you dislike the idea so much as it you do not give any credible feedback as to why not. Medics do not like grinding meds. So we should just revisit every profession and make it zero timer with no needed components to do the class. Pistolers can use their fingers and point without any gun in their hands like 5 year olds playing cops and robbers, shouting BANG! BANG! They do not want to travel all over the universe looking for the best weapons either.

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Pluto9Moon wrote:
Ok the timer is bogus and everyone knows it. Making MID should be at bare minimum as easy as making Doc. So here is the real plan. Combine Tattoos with Body Forms. Make the 4th tree a Crafting tree. The things crafted will be supplies needed and related to the ID profession.

For Example

Box 1 Basic Supplies
Beginner Scissors.
Basic Hair Dye.
Basic Tattoo Ink (Gun).
Feel free to name something for Body Sculpting.


This gives it more of a feel of doing something that is ID related. You cannot dye someones hair without dye. The supplies would be needed to change someones hair. So you can remove the timer based on the fact it becomes so much like making any of the medicine classes, components are needed and the grind will be there but in a necessary way.

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I see the logic behind the post, not being able to dye hair without dye and so forth. After all musicians craft their own instruments. I don't think they even need to add a new crafting line to the profession. They can just grant the ability to make some things at notice ent and at certain boxes to make certain things pertaining to that branch. I think it would be neat to see makeup, hair products, tat products etc etc in the game. Perhaps grinding 1 branch and iding 3 branches would be more fun/easier than grinding 4 id branches. I think this should be at least explored, however if their are id tools those will have timers just like all the other tools.

The person who just replied to you, I can see their logic there also. Entertainers are meant to be a social class, not artisans. Gaining skill for them is basically dancing, playing or iding. NOT crafting. I think perhaps there is worry about it being more about crafting than the profession itself.

Message Edited by SecretFire on 05-23-2004 02:58 AM

I've seen a lot of debate on whether IDs should be regarded as a crafting profession and now have an idea with respect to it. Why not make Holoemotes a craftable item? Perhaps even allow us to sell them on the Bazaar where non-IDs could buy them and use them as they chose. It would give IDs something that they can craft for xp, but would not have any impact on normal advancement for the Entertainer line. This would put IDs in a similar category to Musician, where the crafting was not required, but could be done if the ID chose to do it.

Reiella so you are saying you are simply MID because the benefits outweigh the burdens, of which there is none (except time). Time which I am pointing out that many professions must do. Why do medics craft meds? Why are they largely responisble for finding supplies without the artisan skills you demanded must be necessary if ID's were to craft their own dyes? Do you not see some justice and fairness in this?

Every other profession that gets paid for providing a service also has to find resources. ID and MID alike must use the Force in order to do their trade lol because there are no resources "required".

You call musician the most similiar but overlook the fact they must either craft their instruments or buy them in order to max out their XP. Otherwise they are reduced to 14 XP points a tick. And waste nothing but time as well. They too must buy supplies. Although to your credit these are largely non-charge based instruments.

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Pluto9Moon wrote:
Reiella so you are saying you are simply MID because the benefits outweigh the burdens, of which there is none (except time). Time which I am pointing out that many professions must do. Why do medics craft meds? Why are they largely responisble for finding supplies without the artisan skills you demanded must be necessary if ID's were to craft their own dyes? Do you not see some justice and fairness in this?

Every other profession that gets paid for providing a service also has to find resources. ID and MID alike must use the Force in order to do their trade lol because there are no resources "required".

You call musician the most similiar but overlook the fact they must either craft their instruments or buy them in order to max out their XP. Otherwise they are reduced to 14 XP points a tick. And waste nothing but time as well. They too must buy supplies. Although to your credit these are largely non-charge based instruments.

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I know this is going to sound rude. But umm, please actually read my posts before replying... I'm sure you're getting as tired as I am of me repeating myself.

I am MID because I liked the concept. I do not want to be a damnable crafting profession, and I don't rather like the idea that everything in the game should be broken down to either combat or crafting. And frankly, I don't enjoy crafting. So I don't play crafting professions typically. Sides if I was looking for benefit/cost effort, I'd probably be a FotM profession anyway .

I also know how musician experience works. The difficult/xp awarded is determined by the higher of two checks, the instrument or the song being played. Just so happens in most large performance groups, you're stuck with the Lowest Common Denominator [and in a manner, why they get the exp boon with instruments].

Of course, I'll admit, the way I phrased it originally, it was in a manner that the musician HAD to either craft or buy their new instruments period, not just to obtain the best experience award. Hmm unless that got changed in one of the revamp patches, didn't think it was at least.

Further, the reason why Musician wasn't the most optimal to compare in your suggestion is because the Musician doesn't have a 'Musician Crafting Experience' pool, or a skill line required to advance in that profession at all.

As an afterthought, the Smuggler may be a better point to compare against. At least the Slicing line for the Smuggler. Of course, that one is a bit insular as a single skill line both for the benefits and crafting necessary.

For medics, that's a good question, but largely it's to create inter-dependance upon the Artisian tier (and thus 'lower level' players), and quite likly in the earlier design schemes, to encourage dependance on the Miner profession.

And actually, not every other profession that has a service must have resources for it.

1) Medic : Tend Wound . It's a bit goofy but hey it's there.
2) Squad Leader : Group Terrain Negotition
3) Dancer : Clothes at best is it.
4) Creature Handler : Only requires food to maintain them, not necessarily with the impetus upon the CH to provide the food.

Of course, interdependancy is something alot of folks don't like to have to deal with at all [see Droid Engineers and the Master Artisian issue , and of course, medics in general for finding their resources].